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Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

I'm not sure if this will end up being productive or not. However, every damn time this comes up in a thread, usually Imperial related but not exclusive, it's the same tired junk over and over again.

Do people really not understand that this issue is entirely a matter of aesthetics and is therefor entirely subjective? Every time I see a new post in a thread decrying helmetless faces and then the listed reasons as to why it's "silly" and not realistic all I can think of is the numerous cutscenes and aminations I've seen of bullets wizzing clean through space marine helmets as if they're not even there. Heck I remember seeing lots of unhelmeted models when I first began my hobby interaction years ago, and back then the common excuse was "it's a matter of those who can paint faces and those who cannot."

There are lots of reasons why someone likes one view over the other, why does it have to keep coming up over and over again? Is the helmet issue really that big of a deal for folks? It's gotten to the point I build helmetless models just to tick people off...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/15 19:33:22


 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







I think your post answers your own question

However, I think the nature of the Interweb blows it all out of proportion. People have preferences, but you can't be seen to be wrong or ignorant on the interweb and its easy to take umbrage at a statement made by someone you will never actually meet, so it becomes a hill to die on, unfortunately.

The only real way forward is to try and help keep people calm and reasonable, as hard as that can be sometimes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/15 15:47:03


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

 Flinty wrote:
I think your post answers your own question

However, I think the nature of the Interweb blows it all out of proportion. People have preferences, but you can't be seen to be wrong or ignorant on the interweb and its easy to take umbrage at a statement made by someone you will never actually meet, so it becomes a hill to die on, unfortunately.

The only real way forward is to try and help keep people calm and reasonable, as hard as that can be sometimes.


I understand.

On a related topic, are there any current kits that do not make enough helmeted heads vs. no helmet heads, which would in turn cause a person to not be able to fully kit out a squad one way or the other? It seems to me that there usually is always enough heads to do them up the way you want.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Togusa wrote:
why does it have to keep coming up over and over again?


....he asks as he brings it up. Again.

Myself: Anyways, doesn't matter to me. If a model has an option of heads/helmets I use the one I like the look of best. Or the one that best fits the look I want the model to portray. Maybe just whichever I'm in the mood to paint....
Sometimes, especially with old solid cast pieces, I need to do a head swap to get the desired look.

Others: I honestly don't give it any thought.
If I did I'd assume either A) they aproach it like I do, or B) they didn't think about it at all & just stuck a head on/never considered modding the piece.

   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Honesty the main reason I go all helmet is to not have to paint faces. The armor is way easier haha. Though I personally do like the helmets better on most models.

Anyone trying to force the helmet for muh realism is full of it. Dudes are running around with chainsaws, fighting sentient mushrooms. Though on that note even in real life, everyone doesn’t have full kit on all the time every time. We’d drop just about everything but water and ammo during some patrols in Afghanistan because the mountains were just that rough.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/15 16:13:56


Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

ccs wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
why does it have to keep coming up over and over again?


....he asks as he brings it up. Again.

Myself: Anyways, doesn't matter to me. If a model has an option of heads/helmets I use the one I like the look of best. Or the one that best fits the look I want the model to portray. Maybe just whichever I'm in the mood to paint....
Sometimes, especially with old solid cast pieces, I need to do a head swap to get the desired look.

Others: I honestly don't give it any thought.
If I did I'd assume either A) they aproach it like I do, or B) they didn't think about it at all & just stuck a head on/never considered modding the piece.



Most seem to not care. But I've had a few run ins with folks to refused to play a game because my Sergeants and Captains didn't have helmets on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Honesty the main reason I go all helmet is to not have to paint faces. The armor is way easier haha. Though I personally do like the helmets better on most models.

Anyone trying to force the helmet for muh realism is full of it. Dudes are running around with chainsaws, fighting sentient mushrooms.


This is my feeling. I'm not a good painter, so the less work I have to do the better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/15 16:12:15


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Togusa wrote:

Most seem to not care. But I've had a few run ins with folks to refused to play a game because my Sergeants and Captains didn't have helmets on.
Seriously?
They're nuts.

Personally most of my Marines are helmeted. I have a couple old metal models who are un-helmeted mostly for the sake of retaining the original cast. I prefer the look of an all-helmeted army for them, and they're supposed to be using their auto-senses in battle anyways.

My CSM are probably all-helmeted except for the odd Berzerker or metal Terminator.

All my Tyranids are unhelmeted.
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

I sense for the way you worded the original post that those who really care about helmets won’t comment much.

I am in exactly the same camp as you, it doesn’t matter, it’s a game and the helmet-less look is a hollywoodism that I like the look of. So most my sgts and characters don’t have helmets. Not all but most.

No one complains about ORKS not wearing helmets, but soon a space marine takes his off it ruins suspension of disbelief. Fine if they want to model their's with all helmets but don’t try and dictate to others.

Sisters of battle I always preferred helmets but just because they looked ace, but now I like the shaved head look, never liked the bob.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





I prefer helmets for standard troops, but some of my sergeants and heros get a cool looking head without helmet so they are easier to spot and because it is "cool"
   
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

Brickfix wrote:
I prefer helmets for standard troops, but some of my sergeants and heros get a cool looking head without helmet so they are easier to spot and because it is "cool"



This ^^^^
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I always model with skidlid when the option is there, because I hate, and suck at, painting flesh tones.

However, the original reason for Command Models being lidless was of course to make them more visible on the tabletop at a glance.

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Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Togusa wrote:
Do people really not understand that this issue is entirely a matter of ascetics, and is therefor entirely subjective?

I am 100% sure that this is not a matter of "severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons."

It might be a matter of aesthetics, and said aesthetics might matter to certain people who follow an ascetic lifestyle, but I'm fairly sure such people wouldn't be collecting Warhammer 40k.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

However, the original reason for Command Models being lidless was of course to make them more visible on the tabletop at a glance.
Hey, that's what ye olde back banners are for!

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Togusa wrote:
Most seem to not care. But I've had a few run ins with folks to refused to play a game because my Sergeants and Captains didn't have helmets on.

Well, that's bizarre. But look at it this way: Anyone who refuses to play a game with you because of how you've personally decided to model your units probably wouldn't be any fun to play with in the first place. Be glad that they "weeded themselves out" by personally announcing their lack of respect for other people's decisions for their own armies. I don't think that you lost anything from not playing them. They don't sound like much fun anyway.
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

Helmets for everyone, all the time. Unless there's no other options, like given pre-assembled models or old old Stormtroopers who only have beret-heads.

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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

I used to do helmets for the rank and file, helmetless for the experienced troops so you know they're badass...

...but then a friend convinced me to do it the other way around - no helmets for the rank and file because they are younger, less experienced, and more impetuous, and helmets for the veterans and heroes, because they have been through some gak, know how to survive, and are smart enough to understand the value of a helmet.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

I love Helmets and I love helmetless...

They both have a place in my armies.

Could give 2 gaks if anyone likes it or not, I build the army for myself and what I want it to look like.

If you don't like it cool, if you do cooler.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




South New Jersey

Always helmets, so I don't have to paint eyes.

   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Most seem to not care. But I've had a few run ins with folks to refused to play a game because my Sergeants and Captains didn't have helmets on.

Well, that's bizarre. But look at it this way: Anyone who refuses to play a game with you because of how you've personally decided to model your units probably wouldn't be any fun to play with in the first place. Be glad that they "weeded themselves out" by personally announcing their lack of respect for other people's decisions for their own armies. I don't think that you lost anything from not playing them. They don't sound like much fun anyway.


I tend to agree. In my neck of the woods there are a couple of people who have been so toxic, that everyone else preschedules their games. On Gameday, the toxic boys show up, and can't get a game in with anyone else because of it and they get salty and refuse to play each other, ironically complaining behind each others backs about how toxic they are when playing the game. One of them decided to jump into HH, and I laughed so hard when he posted his all Dreadnought army "painted neutral grey" so that he can pick and choose the best of the dreadnought chapters on a whim. Totally called it.

Some hobbyists are just like that I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/15 19:40:05


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Just let them stew in their own toxicity, they're doing you a favour by self-quarantining.

My Guard are all sealed up in Hostile Environment sets, but before I did a mass-conversion I had the odd helmet-less guy. Same with my Marines, around 1/4 are lacking helmets. For all your opponent knows, the guy took a hit and discarded his broken helmet just before the battle.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





I generally prefer helmets because I think that they look cool, though some of the CSM heads are really cool with the snarling grills. Also, about painting skin tones, if you play Chaos, you can paint their skin all kinds of strange colors, due to Chaos corruption.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Togusa wrote:
I've had a few run ins with folks to refused to play a game because my Sergeants and Captains didn't have helmets on.

X
   
Made in us
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant





The Wastes of Krieg

I always go full helmet, and mask if that is an option. I prefer a collective anonymous look to my armies over those with individualized models
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

I could have sworn I once read some lore that tried to explain away the helmetless thing for marine leaders by saying they had a small force field projector built into the neck of the armour, that produced a field about the strength of a normal helmet. Like a smaller and weaker iron halo. It went on to talk about one reason for this being to tempt snipers into revealing their positions.
Maybe it was just some author getting mixed up with an iron halo.
Either way, it's at least a good enough head-canon for me to handwave the issue away.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Arson Fire wrote:
I could have sworn I once read some lore that tried to explain away the helmetless thing for marine leaders by saying they had a small force field projector built into the neck of the armour, that produced a field about the strength of a normal helmet. Like a smaller and weaker iron halo. It went on to talk about one reason for this being to tempt snipers into revealing their positions.
Maybe it was just some author getting mixed up with an iron halo.
Either way, it's at least a good enough head-canon for me to handwave the issue away.

It's dumb but better than nothing. If anyone has a source that'd be great.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




I am aghast...AGHAST I SAY... that you would consider not wearing your Emperor-blessed uniform headpiece. All good guardsmen always wear their helmets and hats (you heard me).

This is of course a completely tongue-in-cheek answer. Do whatever you want. If you want to model them without heads at all, knock yourself out (but not literally, please).
   
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I think you shouldn't get 10VP if you go helmetless.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 Insectum7 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

However, the original reason for Command Models being lidless was of course to make them more visible on the tabletop at a glance.
Hey, that's what ye olde back banners are for!

Which is why said banners should not count for line of sight purposes. Nobody needs to die because they caught it in the heraldry.

I love back banners on Marines, and I like to leave my unit sergeants helmetless to make them easier to pick out of an otherwise mostly identical unit.

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 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Both, both are good for different reasons.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






PS what about masks?
[Thumb - Immortan Joe 2.jpg]


   
 
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