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I understand that the Imperium and Necrons cannot coexist in the grand scheme of things. The Necrons want their galaxy back, and the Imperium wants to exterminate the xenos. But are there canonical instances of Imperials and Necrons cooperating because their interests are currently in alignment? What does the Imperium have that the Necrons could want (and vice versa) and which could not simply be taken by force? If an Ordo Xenos inquisitor met a Necron overlord, what could they exchange (aside from gunfire)?

I'm not including instances of one side being unwittingly manipulated or used by the other, e.g. when it comes to the pariah gene or the relationship between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Void Dragon. I'm talking about cases where both parties are willingly and knowingly cooperating, if only on a temporary, enemy-of-my-enemy basis.

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Lexicanum wrote:In 995.M41, the Blood Angels Space Marine Chapter engaged a Necron army under the Silent King. In what became known as the Gehenna Campaign, when Tyranids appeared over Gehenna the Blood Angels and Necrons of the Silent King were forced to join forces to defeat their common foe.

Yes, especially if they're called Trazyn, but even the Silent King has has struck deals with Dante.
They'll even co-operate with with Orks and the forces of Chaos if given the right incentive.

Yes, they can.

Whilst most if not all Necron Lords carry their own peculiar brand of insanity? Not all are so far gone in certain departments that they can’t see the benefit of strategic convenience.

Now. Can one trust them? Whilst some might say No Not At All? I’d point them to Nemesor Zahndrekh.

Now there is background debate whether it’s an act for reasons best known to himself? His own brand of Round The Bend And Up The Wall Completely Hatstand means if he decides a foe is honourable? Certain tactics are off the table.

And so it follows there may very well be Lords and Overlords out there of a similar ‘if they’re honourable foe’ bent, to the point they’d consider allegiances - and may even stick by their word forevermore. Potentially even in the face of outright treachery and betrayal.

And this is why the new (current) Necron background is far more interesting than the old “a C’Tan did it” background.

Another thing to consider is which Necron you talk too. Many of the rank and file have either no personality left or are driven insane. Canoptek are machines that run on code and are not really described as forming emotional elements or alliances or such. They function purely to serve the interest of the Necrons.

So alliances and any diplomacy are tricky because you can really only talk to the upper ranks of the Necrons. Their Lords and Seers and such. Even then you want to avoid the Destroyer Lords!


So getting an audience to treat with them is tricky at the outset. That said, as noted above, Necrons are smart enough to realise the mutual benefits of alliances in the short term and in specific situations. the Imperium is much the same; plus just like the Necrons there's a wide variety of responses.

There are those who will never ally with any other faction, ever; there are those who will actively seek out such alliances wherever possible. Between the two is the gauntlet of variety.

Though for most races it weights toward xenophobia; save for the Tau.

It would also help if the one petitioning for the bargain understands the aloofness, xenophobia and arrogance of the Necron.

I doubt the can be strong armed. Insanity or not I suspect their racial pride won’t allow them to do anything but rebuff.

Coming before them as an equal? Probably dicey. What works on one, will see a summary execution from the next.

Come before them as an inferior seeking some kind of feudal inferior? That might appeal to other egos.

Others have pretty much nailed it. They can be bargained with. We've seen them bargained with. Recent 'cron novels have really made me like them a lot more because they're individuals with their own goals and desires and the technology to at least try and fulfill them. Where the imperium tends to be forced into very frustratingly stale monotony, 'crons can look at the setting and go, "How can I use this for my hobbies?"

Drukhari are a lot of fun for similar reasons when they're not getting bogged down in childish bickering. The descriptions of what an eccentric archon or archite builds in their free time are some of the coolest bits of fluff in the setting.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Drukhari are a lot of fun for similar reasons when they're not getting bogged down in childish bickering. The descriptions of what an eccentric archon or archite builds in their free time are some of the coolest bits of fluff in the setting.

Oh yeah, I could absolutely imagine an alliance and even a friendship between a Necron overlord and a Drukhari archon who share the same eccentricity or hyperfixation. Since they're from different species, they don't see each other as political rivals, but merely as fellow hobbyists.

-Guardsman- wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Drukhari are a lot of fun for similar reasons when they're not getting bogged down in childish bickering. The descriptions of what an eccentric archon or archite builds in their free time are some of the coolest bits of fluff in the setting.

Oh yeah, I could absolutely imagine an alliance and even a friendship between a Necron overlord and a Drukhari archon who share the same eccentricity or hyperfixation. Since they're from different species, they don't see each other as political rivals, but merely as fellow hobbyists.

Provided their love of the hobby allows them to overcome the ancient enmity between their species, of course.

Fabius makes a deal with Trazyn and there is a little paragraph somewhere where an inquisitor sends him a couple of platoons of catachan warriors, implying some sort of deal or diplomacy.

The aristocracy of the necrons have retained their sentience and seem to be just a flawed as humans

The Catachan thing was an attempt by an Inquisitor to destroy Trazyn. He saw it as a "kind gift" and in return sent a Tesseract Labyrinth to capture the Inquisitor.

mrFickle wrote:
Fabius makes a deal with Trazyn and there is a little paragraph somewhere where an inquisitor sends him a couple of platoons of catachan warriors, implying some sort of deal or diplomacy.

The aristocracy of the necrons have retained their sentience and seem to be just a flawed as humans

Inquisitor Valeria, iirc. Who had stats in the 5th edition GK codex. Didn't she have the cube as one of her pieces of xenos wargear?

Of course. Every Necron Lord is an intelligent being with his own agenda, so it's really no different to negotiating with anyone else.

I would say that the Necrons, at least in the newer canon when they got retconned to be crazy undead in space instead of the old versions(eldricht life-cleansing robot zombies from the dawn of time) are probably the 2nd most likely major Xeno for the Imperium to make some sort of deal with besides the Eldar.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyldhunt wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Fabius makes a deal with Trazyn and there is a little paragraph somewhere where an inquisitor sends him a couple of platoons of catachan warriors, implying some sort of deal or diplomacy.

The aristocracy of the necrons have retained their sentience and seem to be just a flawed as humans

Inquisitor Valeria, iirc. Who had stats in the 5th edition GK codex. Didn't she have the cube as one of her pieces of xenos wargear?

Yup. It is implied that she got it from Trollzyn, a reward for both inadvertantly giving him some Catachans and surviving the surprise of opening it's box when it got sent to her.

Trayzyn is just the biggest practical joker, and if you survive his surprise packages you get to keep it and use it yourself.

I think "negotiate" is the wrong word TBF. The Necrons want their galaxy back and currently the Imperium has most of it. There are some dynasties that want living subjects for a variety of reasons yet there are just as many that want all non-Necron life wiped out. If a system gets lucky they might get offered vassal status as long as a certain chunk of the population is turned over for experimentation or extermination. Its not a negotiation though, its very much a "Do what we say or you all die".

In way the lore wasn't ret-conned; it just kind of advanced. Indeed a lot of cases where lore is "ret conned" is just the evolution of the story.

Early Necrons were indeed basically Terminators running on old code killing machines. Which fits, even now there are Tomb Worlds which do that. Almost feral minded who might have lost their lord through the span of time; or the lord is beyond insane.
They even kept some of the mindless killing machine aspects with the Canoptek machines.

I find it hilarious that people say can "Necrons" be reasoned with, as if they are the most unreasonable.

Can a Sister of Battle be made to see reason?
A Black Templar?
A Knight of Blood?
A Termagaunt?

Necrons aren't thoughtless, like most of the Imperium, and they aren't truly slaves, like most of the Imperium.

 Overread wrote:
In way the lore wasn't ret-conned; it just kind of advanced. Indeed a lot of cases where lore is "ret conned" is just the evolution of the story.

Early Necrons were indeed basically Terminators running on old code killing machines. Which fits, even now there are Tomb Worlds which do that. Almost feral minded who might have lost their lord through the span of time; or the lord is beyond insane.
They even kept some of the mindless killing machine aspects with the Canoptek machines.

Ehhh. I mean, the difference might be mostly academic to the random imperial citizen getting erased with a gauss flayer. But there's a pretty big difference between an army lead by an alien star god (a C'Tan) and an army that might be out satisfying the whims of a capricious rich kid. You probably wouldn't have stories like Illic Nightspear attending necron dinner parties if the host of said dinner parties was still a mindless puppet of the Nightbringer, for instance.

The immortal king aspect is much better IMO. There's still the option for C'tan subsumed dynasties and IIRC there's even one that is entirely controlled by a Tomb World itself. But the fact that you can do Your Dudes with Necrons is a good thing.

 Overread wrote:
In way the lore wasn't ret-conned; it just kind of advanced. Indeed a lot of cases where lore is "ret conned" is just the evolution of the story.

Early Necrons were indeed basically Terminators running on old code killing machines. Which fits, even now there are Tomb Worlds which do that. Almost feral minded who might have lost their lord through the span of time; or the lord is beyond insane.
They even kept some of the mindless killing machine aspects with the Canoptek machines.

I suppose. I don't really dislike the newer lore, the characters are all very nice. I just kinda liked the semi-lovecraftian unfathomableness that they used to have across the board. Ancient machines from the dawn of time reawoken to cleanse the universe of life is pretty compelling. We mostly lost that when we gave them personalities.

It was even an interesting choice from a game mechanic standpoint. They originally were the only faction with no named characters.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Overread wrote:
In way the lore wasn't ret-conned; it just kind of advanced. Indeed a lot of cases where lore is "ret conned" is just the evolution of the story.

Early Necrons were indeed basically Terminators running on old code killing machines. Which fits, even now there are Tomb Worlds which do that. Almost feral minded who might have lost their lord through the span of time; or the lord is beyond insane.
They even kept some of the mindless killing machine aspects with the Canoptek machines.

I suppose. I don't really dislike the newer lore, the characters are all very nice. I just kinda liked the semi-lovecraftian unfathomableness that they used to have across the board. Ancient machines from the dawn of time reawoken to cleanse the universe of life is pretty compelling. We mostly lost that when we gave them personalities.

It was even an interesting choice from a game mechanic standpoint. They originally were the only faction with no named characters.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. On the plus side, you can still kind of recapture the lovecraftian feel by just framing the story from the perspective of someone who doesn't know anything about necrons. From conscript Larry's point of view, these things just started walking out of that halo of green light towards town. They don't talk or revel in their slaughter or even trade glances with each other. They just walk through scouring every trace of your village from the materium.

Three occassions come to mind where Necrons interacted with the Imperium in a neutral / friendly way:

1. The first reply here already mentioned that battle against Tyranid forces.
2. In the "Silent King" audiobook the Blood Angels visit the SK to discuss stuff.
3. During the 13th Black Crusade Trazyn helped out on various occasions. For example helping Cawl to understand how Necron Pylons work or releasing a full army of pre-heresy Ultramarines to help the defenders.

While a long lasting alliance is very unlikely, Necrons will strike a deal if it helps their own interest, imho.

Also lets not forget almost any potential ally is going to backstab the Necrons at some point anyway. Even if their direct allied contact is loyal the various "races" as a whole are not.

So they could link up with a specific general or inquisitor or such with the Imperium, but the next one along could be a die hard xenophobic and go into full on war against the Necrons (and likely those who allied with them).

Still catching up with the lore in many ways.

In my younger days, I remember Necrons being silent and not talking...they also had a rule called, "I'll be Back" so I thougbt they were an extension of Sky Net.

Oh have things have changed...

The old Orpheus campaign from Forge World had the human ruling cousil join in meeting longs times before the Necron invaded. Only problem was that it was in dreams and the ruling governor thought he was going insane. No action was taken.

Then the Necrons sett upp a time barrier and reaped the place. Radio silence dropped once the time barrier was down and everything was dead.

 Dekskull wrote:
Still catching up with the lore in many ways.

In my younger days, I remember Necrons being silent and not talking...they also had a rule called, "I'll be Back" so I thougbt they were an extension of Sky Net.

Oh have things have changed...

Well, "Ill be Back" is still around with Necrons being able to bring back destroyed models and stuff. IBB was really just Feel No Pain with some extra rules even when back in the old days.

It just represented the self-repair abilities that all Necron constructs have.


The only real change to their technology was how the FTL on their ships worked. Now they just use a muddied down version of the Webway. Previously they had some sort of hyper advanced drive that just let them instantly travel anywhere pretty much. They could just bend space and arrive at their destination. I did prefer that, it made them much more dangerous and gave a feel of having the most advanced tech possible.

They do still have that with the Dolmen Gates.

Kinda, but not really. They are much more limited than they used to have. They could literally go anywhere from anywhere in the past. Now they have "Better but different" webway.

 Dekskull wrote:
Still catching up with the lore in many ways.

In my younger days, I remember Necrons being silent and not talking...they also had a rule called, "I'll be Back" so I thougbt they were an extension of Sky Net.

Oh have things have changed...

6th edition they were ret-conned into being, more or less, Tomb Kings in space. They've since added more depth and nuance to it, but the original execution was a bit rough and left a bad taste for a lot of people.

-Guardsman- wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Drukhari are a lot of fun for similar reasons when they're not getting bogged down in childish bickering. The descriptions of what an eccentric archon or archite builds in their free time are some of the coolest bits of fluff in the setting.

Oh yeah, I could absolutely imagine an alliance and even a friendship between a Necron overlord and a Drukhari archon who share the same eccentricity or hyperfixation. Since they're from different species, they don't see each other as political rivals, but merely as fellow hobbyists.

Or a Haemonculus and Cryptek swapping notes on resurrection/biotransference.

<And Those?>
"Spikes, dear thing."
<What Function Do They Serve?>
"There doesn't need to be a 'why' for adding spikes! It just adds a certain....something...for the device to have lethally sharp edges, surely."
<It Seems An Inefficient Decision.>
"Says the resurrectionist who put his master in a basically indestructible body! I mean talk about making yourself redundant!"