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The only sense I can make of this as an extreme, egotistical individualist ( with a strong sense of family) is that in the context of the 40k Universe - dying for the Emperor is Selfless and helps all of humanity. Whereas living for yourself is like being a selfish rat in the hole. But what do you think - die Selflessly for the Emperor, or live Selfishly for Yourself? Btw I'm picking" Live for Myself". Screw humanity, not even a billion lives matters as much as a single cat or dog of mine as far as I'm concerned, but I clearly don't have the sense of duty of an Astartes.

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Selfish rat forever and blood angels are one of my armies and I also hated the skaven for 24 years

It depends when you die for the emperor, the lord solar has clearly lived a long a decadent life and when he dies he will probably be content. Where are some kid that been conscripted and had his head blown off in the first 5 mins of his first battle probably would have rather had some other options on the table

Asenion wrote:
Screw humanity...

Burn the heretic!!!

I don't think, in the Warhammer universe, many people actually get to choose...

Well. In-universe it’s often a no-brainer.

For a huge proportion of Imperial Citizens, life is a drudge. Your food is crap. Your water polluted. Your work hard and unending. You rarely if ever get to venture out beyond your work station.

In The Guard? Well let’s not pretend anyone really knows what you’re getting yourself into. But it’s absolutely an escape. If you survive your first few engagements, you can get up the ranks. Even your basic Guardsman still sees food and water rations on the regular. And they’re typically Not Completely Awful.

There’s even the chance, however slim, that your Regiment will be awarded a world to rule over. Sure you won’t be Planetary Governor yourself, but you’ll be someone with all the trappings that brings.

As a rough and not particularly accurate example? Consider pre-Guard life growing up in a Victorian Slum. You get by, but you never really live. But post-Guard? You might end up with a place to live like mine. Spare room. Central heating. Hot and cold running water. The difference in quality of life is staggering.

And if you personally are really really lucky? You too might discover an STC, and be rewarded with not just elevation to the Nobility as a bona fide Hero of the Imperium, but get a Planetary Governship (and it’s essentially endless wealth) into the bargain.

Life is harsh, brutal and inevitably short. In the Guard, you’ve literally a fighting chance at something better. Even if you don’t survive? At least you didn’t end up broken in middle age and rendered down into Corpse Starch.

Die for the Emperor. Because then I will most likely become part of the Legion of the Damned and turn into a spooky immortal ghost eternally tormented by the flames of damnation and reviled by friend and foe alike. And while that might not sound like fun it is metal af.

As for Astartes? Once your accepted via whatever pre-induction trials exist? That’s the end of You, because your psychic and chemical indoctrination beings today duder - and at that point, your life is over. You are over, as your thoughts are no longer your own, and barring Heresy, never will be again.

Rather die/ live for Papa Nurgle.
Or join the Greater Good. Screw the Emprah.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As for Astartes? Once your accepted via whatever pre-induction trials exist? That’s the end of You, because your psychic and chemical indoctrination beings today duder - and at that point, your life is over. You are over, as your thoughts are no longer your own, and barring Heresy, never will be again.

Yeah ok, but Emperor Good. Heresy bad!
Baad!




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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Rather die/ live for Papa Nurgle.
Or join the Greater Good. Screw the Emprah.

Commie Fish B-Tard!

You are aware that the imperium is a fascist theocracy with all the stuff that kind of government comes with?

It is a propaganda sentence in the vein of those used by religious and fascist extremists in our world. To use and abuse the lowly for the gain of those in power.

It is propaganda to recruit people, keep morals high and maintain authority.

The setting is build in a way that the warmachine has to keep going. If nobody died for the emperor humanity would die out
So in some cases it is right.

The setting is sarcastic to the tips. The imperium could probably get better results without the fachisemn. But then they would need another (sarcastic?) way to have a war setting.

You don't get to 'live for yourself ' without the sacrifices made by those who came before you to repel the xenos, the the traitor, the daemon.

Those who die for the Emperor and mankind will sit eternally at His right hand.
Those who live for themselves doom both themselves and their brothers.

Asenion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As for Astartes? Once your accepted via whatever pre-induction trials exist? That’s the end of You, because your psychic and chemical indoctrination beings today duder - and at that point, your life is over. You are over, as your thoughts are no longer your own, and barring Heresy, never will be again.

Yeah ok, but Emperor Good. Heresy bad!
Baad!

At least the Guard isn’t based on Child Soldier recruits

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Asenion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As for Astartes? Once your accepted via whatever pre-induction trials exist? That’s the end of You, because your psychic and chemical indoctrination beings today duder - and at that point, your life is over. You are over, as your thoughts are no longer your own, and barring Heresy, never will be again.

Yeah ok, but Emperor Good. Heresy bad!
Baad!

At least the Guard isn’t based on Child Soldier recruits

Instead Krieg have child soldier veterans!

Asenion wrote:
The only sense I can make of this as an extreme, egotistical individualist ( with a strong sense of family) is that in the context of the 40k Universe - dying for the Emperor is Selfless and helps all of humanity. Whereas living for yourself is like being a selfish rat in the hole. But what do you think - die Selflessly for the Emperor, or live Selfishly for Yourself? Btw I'm picking" Live for Myself". Screw humanity, not even a billion lives matters as much as a single cat or dog of mine as far as I'm concerned, but I clearly don't have the sense of duty of an Astartes.

40k is a satirical setting making fun of fascist/socialist societies. I know, over the past 20 years, as GW turned 40k into grim dark, and the satire was lost on many people.

Live for yourself.

I wouldn't go Chaos, but screw the Emperor. Uniting mankind didn't save it, it doomed it. He's just another failed despot.

Die for the Emperor, obviously. Don't forget that 40k is a setting where hell is indisputably real and you will go there if a less-malicious warp entity doesn't take your soul instead. Die for the Emperor and earn His favor so that your soul can have a less-awful fate for eternity. Live for yourself and gain a fleeting moment of independence followed by an eternity of unimaginable suffering. The choice is obvious.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:
Die for the Emperor, obviously. Don't forget that 40k is a setting where hell is indisputably real and you will go there if a less-malicious warp entity doesn't take your soul instead. Die for the Emperor and earn His favor so that your soul can have a less-awful fate for eternity. Live for yourself and gain a fleeting moment of independence followed by an eternity of unimaginable suffering. The choice is obvious.

Is that how that even works? Maybe I'm ignorant on the afterlife side of 40k but I didn't think there was a "good" afterlife for anybody in the universe. Some souls get taken by the daemons or Chaos Gods (such as Eldar souls being eaten by Slaanesh) but most non psykers/non Eldar just fade into the warp.

 Stormonu wrote:
I wouldn't go Chaos, but screw the Emperor. Uniting mankind didn't save it, it doomed it. He's just another failed despot.

I’ll argue that point.

Sure, the failure of the Great Crusade arrested that attempt. But look at 40K right now, even removing Chaos entirely.

The Hive Fleets alone would be humanity’s end. With the triumph of Ullanor, Orks were crushed as a threat for a decent period. And that Warlord was out there, and not a result of The Great Crusade. Necrons waking is another “there goes the neighbourhood” issue for human worlds had The Imperium never been.

No it didn’t go as planned, but even battered and manky as The Imperium is, as poor a shadow of what was originally hoped as it stands? It still gives humanity a fighting chance, simply due to its sheer size, and it’s constituent worlds having some capacity and will to stand together.

And on it being a failure? In one of Luetin’s videos (I highly recommend his videos), he posited that if The Emperor does indeed have near perfect foresight? Who’s to say this isn’t all part of a wider plan? It may seem bizarrely cruel to bring about The Heresy and everything that followed deliberately…yet, if it was deemed the only path to a much later redemption, which will eventually see Humanity Resplendent? Is the price not worth paying, when the alternative is guaranteed extinction?

I think ill just lie down under this pile of coats and hope everything turns out ok

You're gonna die pretty quickly regardless, so might as well make it mean something.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Hive Fleets alone would be humanity’s end.

It's important to note that without the events of the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, the Tyranids might never have even come to the Milky Way.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
I wouldn't go Chaos, but screw the Emperor. Uniting mankind didn't save it, it doomed it. He's just another failed despot.

I’ll argue that point.

Sure, the failure of the Great Crusade arrested that attempt. But look at 40K right now, even removing Chaos entirely.

The Hive Fleets alone would be humanity’s end. With the triumph of Ullanor, Orks were crushed as a threat for a decent period. And that Warlord was out there, and not a result of The Great Crusade. Necrons waking is another “there goes the neighbourhood” issue for human worlds had The Imperium never been.

No it didn’t go as planned, but even battered and manky as The Imperium is, as poor a shadow of what was originally hoped as it stands? It still gives humanity a fighting chance, simply due to its sheer size, and it’s constituent worlds having some capacity and will to stand together.

And on it being a failure? In one of Luetin’s videos (I highly recommend his videos), he posited that if The Emperor does indeed have near perfect foresight? Who’s to say this isn’t all part of a wider plan? It may seem bizarrely cruel to bring about The Heresy and everything that followed deliberately…yet, if it was deemed the only path to a much later redemption, which will eventually see Humanity Resplendent? Is the price not worth paying, when the alternative is guaranteed extinction?

No

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
I wouldn't go Chaos, but screw the Emperor. Uniting mankind didn't save it, it doomed it. He's just another failed despot.

I’ll argue that point.

Sure, the failure of the Great Crusade arrested that attempt. But look at 40K right now, even removing Chaos entirely.

The Hive Fleets alone would be humanity’s end. With the triumph of Ullanor, Orks were crushed as a threat for a decent period. And that Warlord was out there, and not a result of The Great Crusade. Necrons waking is another “there goes the neighbourhood” issue for human worlds had The Imperium never been.

No it didn’t go as planned, but even battered and manky as The Imperium is, as poor a shadow of what was originally hoped as it stands? It still gives humanity a fighting chance, simply due to its sheer size, and it’s constituent worlds having some capacity and will to stand together.

And on it being a failure? In one of Luetin’s videos (I highly recommend his videos), he posited that if The Emperor does indeed have near perfect foresight? Who’s to say this isn’t all part of a wider plan? It may seem bizarrely cruel to bring about The Heresy and everything that followed deliberately…yet, if it was deemed the only path to a much later redemption, which will eventually see Humanity Resplendent? Is the price not worth paying, when the alternative is guaranteed extinction?

Nah. I'm in the Camp of "It's understandable how the Imperium became what it is with how terrible the 40K universe is, but it's also the worst government humanity could have and it's the main reason why Chaos is that successful."