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Questions for the astralpaths among us:

Is there no one who can traverse the inter-galactic warp?

Why do the Gods seem to conglomerate around our galaxy or are they just good at multi-tasking?

What was the point of the Inter-Galactic Webways established by the Old Ones?

Who actually created the Universe? Are there Gods over each galaxy? Is there a God?

Does anybody live in Andromeda?

1 - There isn't a reason to go intergalactic because there is stuff in the current Galaxy.

2 - We only see that the Gods are focusing on the Milky Way because the game is set in the Milky Way.

3 - It's not been clarified if the Webway is intergalactic or not. It was created because when the Webway was in its prime it was essentially an alternate realm with near-instantaneous transportation between Webway gates. There was no concern about Warp predators or material disasters which made it extremely safe. The War in Heaven and the birth of Slaanesh ruined vast portions of the Webway however.

4 - The universe was created by whatever explanation a given race believes. Humanity believes in the Big Bang.

5 - Maybe but we don't know because the setting is in the Milky Way. The Tyranids are extra-galactic so probably at least one other galaxy has intelligent life. The Old Ones are said to have been the first form of intelligent life but given the point of reference for 40k that means they were the first in the Milky Way, not everywhere in the universe.

 Gert wrote:
1 - There isn't a reason to go intergalactic because there is stuff in the current Galaxy.

Yes, but it seems the One Ones may have had some intergalactic activities, it also seems that the immaterium could be more bound to the realspace of the galaxy than the greater intergalactic warp and this appears to be a mystery if it is only bound by realspace. In otherwords it should be a lot bigger, unless it is actually an anti-galaxy surrounded by a membrane or void to another anti-galaxy (immaterium).

 Gert wrote:
2 - We only see that the Gods are focusing on the Milky Way because the game is set in the Milky Way.

True, barring the Necrons, the C'tan and what remains unknown of the Old Ones, where they had traveled, and where they had gone.



Just looking for snippets and clues to something bigger.

 Gert wrote:
3 - It's not been clarified if the Webway is intergalactic or not. It was created because when the Webway was in its prime it was essentially an alternate realm with near-instantaneous transportation between Webway gates. There was no concern about Warp predators or material disasters which made it extremely safe. The War in Heaven and the birth of Slaanesh ruined vast portions of the Webway however.

It sure does not seem clear (at least to me either), I wish the Fandom wiki was managed with direct citations like regular wiki.

 Gert wrote:
4 - The universe was created by whatever explanation a given race believes. Humanity believes in the Big Bang.

I can't seem to find any mention of a big bang belief. Maybe the bulk of the Astartes know something of the big bang, but it seems there are no other existing or real contenders to the Temple of the Saviour Emperor in the 41st.

 Gert wrote:
5 - Maybe but we don't know because the setting is in the Milky Way. The Tyranids are extra-galactic so probably at least one other galaxy has intelligent life. The Old Ones are said to have been the first form of intelligent life but given the point of reference for 40k that means they were the first in the Milky Way, not everywhere in the universe.

I can't seem to find anything on where the Necrons and Tyranids hailed from (assuming we just don't know yet, and may never as they may have destroyed or conquered many galaxies in their wake) I think the Old Ones must have definitely branched out considering they were at war with the C'tan who were extra-galactic, only to be finally eclipsed in the Milky Way. If they survived and I bet they knew where to flee, the they just may be living in another galaxy right now.

In the novel Dead Sky, Black Sun, Uriel Ventris has a vision where he sees whole galaxies stripped of life by Khorne. So, there is evidence that the Chaos gods have a presence beyond the Milky Way. Also, the existence of the Old World/Mortal Realms is evidence that they are also interdimensional.

 Adeptekon wrote:


Why do the Gods seem to conglomerate around our galaxy or are they just good at multi-tasking?

It is stated in some lore that the Gods of Chaos at least play in various realities as well as the 40K, Blood Bowl and AOS/Old World ones so its likely that they do the same in other galaxies as well.

So firstly, as a general rule don't use the 40k Fandom Wiki. The articles are often rife with personal interpretation, theorising and they never ever use citations so in reality you have no idea where the info actually comes from. Lexicanum is a lot better if you want to use a website or better still hard-copy publications.

For 40k, there is no reason to leave the Milky Way because everything relevant to the setting is there. It doesn't really matter if Andromeda or Whirlpool are inhabited because the space between them and the Milky Way is so vast as to be inconsequential to events in the Milky Way.
When it comes to humanity believing how the galaxy was made, the Imperial Creed doesn't teach that it was created by the Emperor. The Temple of the Saviour Emperor is also not the primary Cult of the Imperium as it was reformed and erased after the Age of Apostasy by Sebastian Thor. The Emperor being a God doesn't make him the Creator, just the Saviour of the human race.
The Necrons are native to the Milky Way while the Tyranids are just an extragalactic threat with no actual origins (which is kind of the point).

ArcaneHorror wrote:In the novel Dead Sky, Black Sun, Uriel Ventris has a vision where he sees whole galaxies stripped of life by Khorne. So, there is evidence that the Chaos gods have a presence beyond the Milky Way. Also, the existence of the Old World/Mortal Realms is evidence that they are also interdimensional.

Mr Morden wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:


Why do the Gods seem to conglomerate around our galaxy or are they just good at multi-tasking?

It is stated in some lore that the Gods of Chaos at least play in various realities as well as the 40K, Blood Bowl and AOS/Old World ones so its likely that they do the same in other galaxies as well.

Interesting tid bits! Thanks!

Gert wrote:So firstly, as a general rule don't use the 40k Fandom Wiki. The articles are often rife with personal interpretation, theorising and they never ever use citations so in reality you have no idea where the info actually comes from. Lexicanum is a lot better if you want to use a website or better still hard-copy publications.

For 40k, there is no reason to leave the Milky Way because everything relevant to the setting is there. It doesn't really matter if Andromeda or Whirlpool are inhabited because the space between them and the Milky Way is so vast as to be inconsequential to events in the Milky Way.
When it comes to humanity believing how the galaxy was made, the Imperial Creed doesn't teach that it was created by the Emperor. The Temple of the Saviour Emperor is also not the primary Cult of the Imperium as it was reformed and erased after the Age of Apostasy by Sebastian Thor. The Emperor being a God doesn't make him the Creator, just the Saviour of the human race.
The Necrons are native to the Milky Way while the Tyranids are just an extragalactic threat with no actual origins (which is kind of the point).

I generally refer to the Lexicanum for conservation readings on lore, but it is in dire need of updating. That said everything else I take in even on the Lexicanum so far seems to be at odds with the Imperial citizen knowing anything other than the Emperor as God, moreso that they are kept ignorant of pretty much everything else, which is something you've conveyed to me before as well.

Also the Lexicanum seems (although having some citation issues itself) to support that the Confederation of Light being supplanted, no specific mention of the Thorian reforms other than the Emperor is God, which I'm having a hard time with disconnecting from a creation story to the ancestor-hero worship of the majority of Astarte chapters.

If he's just a hero and not the father of mankind he's just a small "g" god, and I would think that would be allot hard to police dedication to, but maybe why they treat heretics so brutally, but then why not make him a creator if it's that serious of an offense to disregard him as something less than or other than?

Now do the people consider Chaos entities small "g"? or just evil spirits? imho only a creator God could receive the kind of reverence needed to quell the masses. That's not to say we don't have similar ideas on theology today, but for state enforced religion I think it needs to be creationist to carry any real weight otherwise it's kinda like Ancient Rome (which may even be the case on extra terrestrial worlds within the imperium)

I don't think most people in the Imperium think that much about their faith.

Most people would fall into one of two categories:
1) Barely pays attention to it. Whether they're a quiet backwater planet that is largely ignored or involved in soul-crushing constant labor on a hive world, they don't think deeply about their faith.
2) A zealot who's faith is not to be questioned at all, no matter what inconsistencies there might be.

Not ALL people would fall into these categories, but most would, I imagine.

I get that, we have people like this right now.

 Adeptekon wrote:
Also the Lexicanum seems (although having some citation issues itself) to support that the Confederation of Light being supplanted, no specific mention of the Thorian reforms other than the Emperor is God, which I'm having a hard time with disconnecting from a creation story to the ancestor-hero worship of the majority of Astarte chapters.

If he's just a hero and not the father of mankind he's just a small "g" god, and I would think that would be allot hard to police dedication to, but maybe why they treat heretics so brutally, but then why not make him a creator if it's that serious of an offense to disregard him as something less than or other than?

The first problem you are encountering is that there is no creation story for the galaxy within the Imperium or the Imperial Creed. The Emperor is a God but not one that created the galaxy. He is a God because he uplifted humanity from its petty existence and put it on the path to becoming the true ruler of the galaxy and he then sacrificed himself for humanity by placing himself on the Golden Throne.
The Imperium doesn't need some almighty creator to prove they are the rightful rulers of the galaxy, it was already determined but the Emperor just showed them the way.

The Confederation of Light replaced the Temple of the Emperor Saviour as the primary Cult within the Imperial Creed after the Age of Apostasy. It preached that the Emperor's sacrifice should be emulated by all and that humility, generosity, and poverty should be practiced by the Ecclesiarchy, values that were the complete antithesis of the ruling Ecclesiarchy for thousands of years. The Confederation was annihilated but resurfaced under Thor as the excesses and power of Goge Vandire proved to be ruinous for the Imperium. Thor resurrected the ideals of the Confederation and implemented them when he became Ecclesiarch after the fall of Vandire.

Now do the people consider Chaos entities small "g"? or just evil spirits? imho only a creator God could receive the kind of reverence needed to quell the masses. That's not to say we don't have similar ideas on theology today, but for state enforced religion I think it needs to be creationist to carry any real weight otherwise it's kinda like Ancient Rome (which may even be the case on extra terrestrial worlds within the imperium)

The Imperium doesn't believe in any other Gods. The Dark Gods, Gork/Mork, and the Aeldari pantheon are considered entities of note but not Gods. In fact, there is no reference at all to any other deities within Imperial texts other than to say there are no other deities.

I think you should write for the Lexicanum Gert

One of the reasons that I can think of that their hasn't been inter-galactic warp travel is the nature of warp travel.

Warp travel isn't point and go, it is a very in-exact science. The Imperium needs the Astronomican as a beacon as a fixed point to navigate properly, the Tau need to keep dipping out to recalculate and the Orks don't really care.

The problem with going to another galaxy is the vast empty distance between them making travel between them with the current technology impossible as no one would be able to tell were you need to come back out of the warp once you are in another galaxy and you are much more likely to just get lost in the void in between them.

 Gert wrote:

The Confederation of Light replaced the Temple of the Emperor Saviour as the primary Cult within the Imperial Creed after the Age of Apostasy. It preached that the Emperor's sacrifice should be emulated by all and that humility, generosity, and poverty should be practiced by the Ecclesiarchy, values that were the complete antithesis of the ruling Ecclesiarchy for thousands of years. The Confederation was annihilated but resurfaced under Thor as the excesses and power of Goge Vandire proved to be ruinous for the Imperium. Thor resurrected the ideals of the Confederation and implemented them when he became Ecclesiarch after the fall of Vandire.
are no other deities.

Did he really? The Ecclesiarchy of the post-Vandire era does not really seem that different from before aside from the essential disarming of its armed forces. Even then the latest background seems to suggest there is a lot of turning a blind eye with regards to violations of that with the armed forces assembled by preachers, so long as those forces do not become too big or permanent. The Ecclesiarchy seems to be just as corrupt and bloated with power and wealth as before. There seems little real substantial doctrinal difference (we are not nitpicking fine print detail of fictional religious dogma). The only difference I can seem to find is that the Temple outright believes that the faith should reign supreme within the Imperium and obliterate whatever separation of church and state (what little there is) between it and the Administratum.

The Dark Heresy RPG had remnants of the Temple of the Saviour Emperor as an antagonist faction/foe for the PCs to face, but it posed one intriguing possibility. What if the PCs eventually come to believe that in a galaxy beset by threats and with rising daemonic forces against which faith seems the only reliable defense, maybe the Temple was right?

Thor reformed it, but the reforms didn't last in many cases except with the Decree Passive which is rigorously and brutally enforced and the inability for any High Lord to hold two offices.

Gert wrote: The Imperium doesn't believe in any other Gods. The Dark Gods, Gork/Mork, and the Aeldari pantheon are considered entities of note but not Gods. In fact, there is no reference at all to any other deities within Imperial texts other than to say there are no other deities.

This kind of comes up in The Lion, Son of the Forest.

I’ll spoiler the next bit, but there’s no big revelation, so more as a “safe than sorry”.

Indeed those in "The Know" (the Inquisition, some Astartes) refer to them as such but for the Imperial Creed (and therefore the regular Imperial citizenry) any reference to Daemons is metaphorical or allegorical.

And it all kind of tracks.

Whilst the existence of other ‘deities’ is denied, even those in the know deny such beings are deities at all.

And….maybe they’re right?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And it all kind of tracks.

Whilst the existence of other ‘deities’ is denied, even those in the know deny such beings are deities at all.

And….maybe they’re right?

The most poignant example of it is probably my boy Fabius denying their godhood literally to Slaanesh's face

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And it all kind of tracks.

Whilst the existence of other ‘deities’ is denied, even those in the know deny such beings are deities at all.

And….maybe they’re right?

I mean it depends. It's not as hardcoded as the Gods of AoS who very much are Gods, even the Chaos Gods are very much referred to as such by Order-aligned forces. In fact, I think the only individual who doesn't think there are other Gods is Nagash but he thinks he's the only real God so it doesn't count.

For 40k it's all about cultural context. Those who worship the Dark Gods obviously believe them to be such but the Aeldari are also fully aware that the Chaos Pantheon are Gods by their culture's definitions, indeed Slaanesh is technically part of the Aeldari Pantheon (what's left of it anyway).
For the Orks, there might be other Gods but the best Gods are Gork/Mork cos they iz well tuff.
As for the Imperium, if your religion preaches that there is one God, the God Emperor, then all other Gods can't be Gods therefore they either don't exist or are just some sort of entity that debased heretics or filthy Xenos worship, who of course are wrong about them being Gods in the first place.
Likewise, the T'au don't believe in Gods and actually don't have a cultural context to explain what a God would even be. The T'au'va is their culture and it has no central figure, as all are (technically) one within the Greater Good with the Ethereal Caste being spiritual guides and mentors for the T'au rather than religious figureheads.

I'd argue that Gotrek doesn't really believe in the Gods of the Old World either considering that a majority of them were normal living creatures within his lifetime. I can't recall if he is older than Sigmar, but he very much knows that Sigmar was a human before he became a god.

So he knows they are very powerful and calls them Gods, but I don't think he really sees them as many others would see a "god".





Also lets not forget the one notable character who did leave the Galaxy, turned around and fled back pretty fast. The Silent King didn't like what he saw in the dark between the Galaxies. In fact the only race that actually has any functional understanding of life outside of the Milky Way is the Tyranids - and chances are they ate what they found.

Sigmar was always known to be a man in the Old World but in the Mortal Realms Sigmar is just a flat-out God. Gotrek knows he was a man because Gotrek is from the Old World.
I would argue Gotrek knows they are Gods, he just doesn't care and doesn't like them either.

As for the Silent King, the terror he found in the Void was the Tyranids. He feared they would consume his domain (the Milky Way) and scupper any chance the Necrons had to reverse the Biotransference. But there are gaps in his story because he can't say exactly when he found the Tyranids and he can't actually really remember who he was before the Biotransference leading to some believing he isn't actually the real Silent King. These dissenting voices are taken away by the Triarch Praetorians and never seen again.

Considering we've seen Morathi go from "priestess to goddess" I wonder if the Realms are starting to slowly realise (at least the longer lived species) that their "GODS" might not be as godly as they make out.

Being a God doesn't require you to have always been a God.
For 40k we have the Emperor going from being a Psyker of immense power to a force of nature able to influence events across the galaxy after 10k years of belief and power-ups. The Chaos Gods weren't Gods until they attained a certain level of power either, prior to that they were just warp entities.
Horus as well was worshipped by many as an ascended God thanks to the power he attained during the Heresy.

Ok let's settle this, since I sourced that from the fandom. Is there or is there not a reference to man being made in the image of the God Emperor?

Not that I know of. That sounds like real world christian thinking seeping into your fiction.

Iracundus wrote:

 Gert wrote:

The Confederation of Light replaced the Temple of the Emperor Saviour as the primary Cult within the Imperial Creed after the Age of Apostasy. It preached that the Emperor's sacrifice should be emulated by all and that humility, generosity, and poverty should be practiced by the Ecclesiarchy, values that were the complete antithesis of the ruling Ecclesiarchy for thousands of years. The Confederation was annihilated but resurfaced under Thor as the excesses and power of Goge Vandire proved to be ruinous for the Imperium. Thor resurrected the ideals of the Confederation and implemented them when he became Ecclesiarch after the fall of Vandire.
are no other deities.

Did he really? The Ecclesiarchy of the post-Vandire era does not really seem that different from before aside from the essential disarming of its armed forces. Even then the latest background seems to suggest there is a lot of turning a blind eye with regards to violations of that with the armed forces assembled by preachers, so long as those forces do not become too big or permanent. The Ecclesiarchy seems to be just as corrupt and bloated with power and wealth as before. There seems little real substantial doctrinal difference (we are not nitpicking fine print detail of fictional religious dogma). The only difference I can seem to find is that the Temple outright believes that the faith should reign supreme within the Imperium and obliterate whatever separation of church and state (what little there is) between it and the Administratum.

The Dark Heresy RPG had remnants of the Temple of the Saviour Emperor as an antagonist faction/foe for the PCs to face, but it posed one intriguing possibility. What if the PCs eventually come to believe that in a galaxy beset by threats and with rising daemonic forces against which faith seems the only reliable defense, maybe the Temple was right?

To be fair, this is not particularly surprising. The real world bible has a story about Jesus castigating a temple for their wealth and worldly ways, yet the Christian Church became one of the wealthiest institutions on the planet over the following centuries.

Any reforms made by Thor in this regard are likely to have petered out fairly rapidly after his death in favour of the comforts provided by wealth and power.

There is a symbiosis in play between the creatures of the materium and immaterium. Gork and mork, more powerful than the chaos gods, would not exist in other galaxies if there are no orks there.

The chaos gods seem to be mostly fueled by humans and eldar emotions and souls

If the old ones created an inter galactic web way they probably used it to escape the war in heaven and closed it off.

mrFickle wrote:


If the old ones created an inter galactic web way they probably used it to escape the war in heaven and closed it off.

Smart move since they couldn't figure out how to make themselves warm blooded to keep up with their own creations.

Maybe the found a galaxy full of hot rocks

mrFickle wrote:
Maybe the found a galaxy full of hot rocks

Basking away the ages... I still want to know who's in Andromeda.