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yesterday I managed another game of HH, 1,500, my Death Guard getting their first day out, ice cream all round, funny hats and generally enjoying dropping litter etc. and while the bulk of the game was largely as expected (well all as expected) with my tactical troops enjoying getting up close to give the Iron Hands a friendly cuddle only to find strangely the Iron Hands smaller, but veteran, units didn't seem to enjoy this quite so much.. so sad..

even managed to wipe a Kratos before it did any serious hard, which was nice, plenty of lovely rusty metal bits for wonderful life to grow in and around in future.

'as expected' however they had a pair of contemptors, fisty plasma cannon goodness, have come up against these two with my Thousand Sons, have only managed a single kill in half a dozen games..

end result was both my infantry blobs ended up with a contemptor dropping in to say hello and that was pretty much that, the game ending in a draw with us both having wiped the enemy warlord, both having three units left and both having a single VP from objectives held (I had wiped all but a small handful of his troops and the contemptors, I had a few bits lurking in corners trying not to be noticed)

so instead of whining about how they are over powered I'm joining the fun, building finally the two I have, however the question is this:

How good is a contemptor as a close escort for infantry?

mix is both in terms of loadout but also how its used, the thinking is two of them, one per main infantry formation, their role is to stay reasonably close, if an enemy dreadnought approaches to get between it and the troops, threaten it in combat if it gets too close. but critically staying near the troops and essentially working as a single unit tactically.

planned loadout is fist, heavy flamer (because Death Guard and they are fun) then either the gravis las cannon or perhaps the multi melta, tending towards las cannon - yes moving up "wastes" its range but its not like it has a minimum range and this means in the opening turns they can be firing as they move up and when playing escort can still be plinking away are enemy targets that the infantry struggle more with.

the loadout seems to be about 200 points, which is decent for what it can do, I was pondering twin fists, or fist & chainfist, but the AoD kit lacks the parts - though I will be making a left and right handed fist so could have a brawler and a goal keeper role option also

the primary role is not so much to kill the enemy dreadnaughts, though obviously thats nice and the loadout is likely better for that than the likely enemy loadout, the role is more keeping the infantry alive either by tanking shots or making the enemy stay a bit further away - only really going for melee if actually needed to avoid being tied up.

and by playing as a team the infantry can keep enemy infantry away

thoughts?

could be considered slightly list tailoring I know, opponent is on about wanting to give fury of the ancients a try (as in both sides doing it) so need to build a few up, and the weapons are getting magnets for options. I also know my regular opponent, when he gets round to it, has enough stuff not to run the pair of them he has. however the laser cannon loadout also addresses other weaknesses in my force anyway.

I’m probably a weirdo outlier (well, I absolutely am, just in general. But more so for this opinion) in that I prefer less specialised Contemptors when it comes to Escort/Close Support duty.

For instance, if my plan is for it to hang out with a Tactical Squad, that squad should pretty much have anti-infantry firepower sewn up. Bolters may be no great shakes stats wise, but 20 of them rapid firing is still gonna make a decent mess. And so in my mind, the Contemptor should contrast that. That means some ranged anti-tank and either a Fist or Chainfist, just in case anything nasty wants to come slap the Tacticals.

Fielded together, they should make a pretty decent team. Neither element is invincible of course, so it’s not a win button, but it can create some pretty nasty hotspots where my opponent might fear to tread.

What mad doc said.

But basically, you want atleast one fist on a contemptor regardless, because the fists are nuts. And half the reason why they are considered so op.

The other half being contemptor Invul and the dreadnought unittype.

makes sense, I hope, have made two of them, idea is fist/lascannon, magnetised though so can go for closer ranged melta if desired or even autocannons if the local scene moves to lighter vehicles

and Mad Doc, thats exactly the thinking, the infantry can handle enemy infantry, either by shooting it or running up and giving it a gentle hug, the Dread is there to deal with things they can't, and to a lesser degree vice-versa

nice to know its not totally nuts as an idea though

I’m generally a proponent of sub-forces within my army, where my list design is based on mutual support, but not being completely tied to it.

For instance, the already discussed Tactical and Contemptor combo. If the Tacticals end up on an objective, and there doesn’t seem to be much for the Contemptor’s tender attentions, I’m happy for it to waddle off and go bother something worthwhile. Which is why I think I’d want the Lascannons over Multi-Melta. That range is going to come in handy, literally extending its threat range.

The ideal is I end up with competent little bubbles of force, and my opponent won’t have a single hard counter to the constituent parts.

Now, if I’m supporting say, a Heavy Squad? I’d again want something with real range on the Contemptor, like the Autocannon. But as ever, definitely a Fist of some type to slap around any deep strikes and do more than just pin them in combat.

Of course, the MM does have its uses despite its shorter range and even shorter Really Effective Range - such as it being a solid dissuasion against Transports coming to bother me, or creating a nice little radius where any enemy tank is at high risk of being annihilated.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m generally a proponent of sub-forces within my army, where my list design is based on mutual support, but not being completely tied to it.

For instance, the already discussed Tactical and Contemptor combo. If the Tacticals end up on an objective, and there doesn’t seem to be much for the Contemptor’s tender attentions, I’m happy for it to waddle off and go bother something worthwhile. Which is why I think I’d want the Lascannons over Multi-Melta. That range is going to come in handy, literally extending its threat range.

The ideal is I end up with competent little bubbles of force, and my opponent won’t have a single hard counter to the constituent parts.

Now, if I’m supporting say, a Heavy Squad? I’d again want something with real range on the Contemptor, like the Autocannon. But as ever, definitely a Fist of some type to slap around any deep strikes and do more than just pin them in combat.

Of course, the MM does have its uses despite its shorter range and even shorter Really Effective Range - such as it being a solid dissuasion against Transports coming to bother me, or creating a nice little radius where any enemy tank is at high risk of being annihilated.

100% agree with all of this, its a concept I have used in quite a few other games, never seemed to work in 40k with its "I delete you" weapons but 30k is interesting with the reactions and similar. And I've noticed various articlaes and videos claiming a laser cannon is a "waste" on a unit that will move and advance as you pay for the range.. yes, but not like there is a minimum and they are good generally for everything except anti-horde work so yes..

for me dreadnoughts have basically only a few roles

- escort (close or otherwise) where they stick reasonably near to a unit or units until the threat to such is removed (fist & ranged weapon)
- goal keeper where they objective sit with the job of keeping enemy deep striking units off it while providing fire support at range (fist & ranged weapon)
- static gun battery where their potential is largely wasted doing something a tank can do for fewer points but they can be a sod to shift, e.g. Rifleman build stuff
- brawler where they are intended to get in the enemies face and smash stuff, a fist, potentially two, stuff they can run and fire maybe, but not flamers is if they get that close they are charging
- flak defence where they stay behind the infantry but near to them, expecting not to charge or be charged, twin autocannons and the targeting array to try to irritate enemy fliers or deep striking units.. this seems a bit of a waste though

there are probably other more subtle roles but my inner Orc shines through and subtly is replaced by punching things

I agree that the Dread should be able to do what the infantry cannot. My supporting SoH Contemptor has a fist, meltagun and melta cannon. I think lascannon would be just as good, but I went with a melta theme in the army.

Melta is fun it has to be said, especially since a vehicle scurrying out of the way is not firing effectively so you basically do the job without having to actually fire

I do however have one with dual Conversion Beamers.

One for the deep field in lower points games, where I want to wallop pretty much anything super early on.

Deploy somewhere with the most beneficial LoS and hope to either shut down enemy movement options, or see if I can’t delete a squad or tank Turn 1 and 2.

for what its worth, I have now tried this so a report on the what and how

19 man tactical quad, apothecary attached, loaded for close combat (19 man for points, not for anything else), in close attendance with a fist & lascannon contemptor

and then photocopied for two such.

enemy dreadnoughts that have previously rushed to close the gap, knowing the tacticals can be bogged down reasonably safely were more cautious

one of the enemy dreadnoughts was down to one wound by the end of the first turn from one of mine and a las cannon HWS, which itself was then deleted (amazed they lived long enough to fire really)

my infantry went forwards, he ended up putting both his dreadnoughts into one of my squads, which got the damaged one away from one of mine.. A chaplain managed to remove its final wound.. to much rage

the escort for the unit in combat wandered in, and his dread decuided to strike at mine, so immediate result with fewer dead tacticals. this could have gone either way (both damaged at that point), he fluffed his attack rolls, I didn't..

result

game ended with my opponent frantically going through the Libre not to check stats but to see what he could add to counter the pair of them.

oh yes, he had seen my spartan, and predator in their transport box and tried to be clever giving his pair multi-melta in place of the usual plasma cannons he runs..

Neither thank touched the table, he had missed my contemptors...


*evil laughter*

To beat a contemptor, it seems you must become a contemptor.

Mere contempt for the enemies planning .. You sure you are not an AL player?



Well played. But all this shows is, that contemptors and dreads are pretty bonkers.

Not Online!!! wrote:
To beat a contemptor, it seems you must become a contemptor.

Mere contempt for the enemies planning .. You sure you are not an AL player?



Well played. But all this shows is, that contemptors and dreads are pretty bonkers.

his list was a pair of contemptors, a pair of tartaros terminator units and three veteran squads

the veteran squads would have been dangerous if he was aggressive, he wasn't so they were not, and by the time that was all he had left he couldn't hurt the pair of contemptors I had left

which is essentially the reverse of previous games

also another player has a Leviathan under construction, the ranged combat version, which will end up as an over priced weapons turret

I don't think its so much that contemptors and terminators are too powerful, contemptors are certainly under costed though, so much as the reduction in AP2 weapons, I tend to like laser cannons as while they are low rate of fire what they hit tends to notice it in a way stuff hit by other things don't

needs more than one game to validate the approach obviously

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do however have one with dual Conversion Beamers.

One for the deep field in lower points games, where I want to wallop pretty much anything super early on.

Deploy somewhere with the most beneficial LoS and hope to either shut down enemy movement options, or see if I can’t delete a squad or tank Turn 1 and 2.

Love it!!! So my last big fail came from a Contemptor with conversion Beamer and a Learnian Terminator squad with one. Hit my companion squad and they were blinded. Next squad, hit my cataphractii squad bam blinded. Hi and tactical squad, not blinded but carved through 15 marines. Then they ran into my Cenobium Termies and after killing 3 of 5, they blunted the 2 units. Don't underestimate blind checks. When it works, just have something that can reliably do some damage.

Whoa, I didn't realize the Beamers had the Blind rule. That's cool! And would definitely screw over my Infravisor bearing Raven Guard.

I am very tempted to do a dual Multimelta armed Contemptor. It will be short ranged, but most things will be turned to a hot pile of slag if they come close to it. It will have a good 'stay away from me' aspect.

 stonehorse wrote:
I am very tempted to do a dual Multimelta armed Contemptor. It will be short ranged, but most things will be turned to a hot pile of slag if they come close to it. It will have a good 'stay away from me' aspect.

I suspect it will be quite decent, while unlikely to "make its points back" as if that mattered while contributing to overall results nicely, as you note good area denial, well for vehicles and teminators at least, I could see cheaper tacticals charging to tie it up - or diverting quite a bit of ranged fire to remove it helping other stuff do its job.

think it could work better as a pair though, specifically as one of anything can be killed, but two tend to be left alone more

the way the human brain works is weird

I run a duel melta contemptor in a few matches now and have had lots of success with it.
Just the other day it slagged a jetbike, a contemptor, 4 siege tyrants and some tactical marines. No other unit boasted a kill every turn. The match before it popped 2 rhinos and a predator before being demolished by a close combat leviathan, which it burned 3 wounds off with overwatch.

For 185 points it's an incredibly destructive and quite resilient machine.