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Great googly moogly, that report! What it might mean..

On the one hand, I'm afraid armies are about to lose all style. As in:

-"Sure, my GK are strong, but they lack long-range artillery...except when I bring my allied IG baslisks, I mean!"

or

-"Yeah, us orks are all about CC and close-range dakka, but we sure lack antitank. Which is why we hired two DE Ravagers to crack the beakies' Land Raiders!"

It may also be a big shrug regarding codex balance. Vanilla Assault Marines suck? Eh, just borrow some from Blood angels. Hate your tacticals? Why, go for SW Grey Hunters instead!

It could also be a lot of fun if implemented cautiously. For instance, there really should be some advantage to NOT having a split force.

How the allies table works is a hige deal too. My fear is all Imperial armies being best buds and everyone else having maybe one or two sub-optimal choices.

N.I.B. wrote:You can buy a Bastion that drops from the sky, guns blazing?
I.. I don't know what to say.

It's because in the grim darkness of the near future there's a civil war in the Imperium. Allied forced of various Imperial armies take battle against eachother in their own cities shooting from bastion to bastion. Only the side that designs the most cunningly impregnable fortification can endure. The xenos and Chaos threat was eradicated after the Imperium finally came to understand that they can ally the troops from different factions to make undefeatable armies. The root cause behind the civil war is boredom.

I'm liking what i see so far, but I'm going to wait for ALL the rules before I start whining about things I dont have enough info about.

Pre-measuring? Cool. I think pre-measuring in 40k should have always been there. You're telling me a Space Marine or a tank doesn't have a distance display in their HUD?

Random charge distances? Cool. Perfect way to counter pre-measuring and it actually seems more realistic especially if they add Snap Fire. That hail of bullets might have just been a little much and caused the chargers to keep their heads down just enough. Knowing exactly how far a bullet will go is understandable. Knowing exactly how far you can charge every. single. time. is not understandable. In 5th why can you Charge exactly 6 inches but if you chose to run it's random? It's essentially the same move! You have to make charges random if you allow pre-measuring.

Buying Buildings with points? Totally ignorable! Just don't play with those rules! We already do it with the building rules in 5th!

Random Terrain Effects? Same as the buildings, just ignore them!

Allies? Fun for casual games! All a Tournament needs to do is say NO ALLIES! and poof, no more Allies! They do it right now in 5th Ed in regards to buildings! It doesn't matter if they are dedicated FOC slots for them because you can just ignore them!

Hull Points? Thats cool! More realistic and you don't need to have a pen and paper to keep track because you would keep track of it like you do with multi-wound models by using counters or dice.

N.I.B. wrote:You can buy a Bastion that drops from the sky, guns blazing?
I.. I don't know what to say.

It's the next logical step from Land Raiders that drop out of the sky, guns blazing

The fortifications don't really bother me much, and I kind of like the ability to customize the battlefield a bit, as long as it stays fairly balanced. I'm curious to see how you deploy them. Hopefully you deploy them before either player starts putting regular models on the board.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:– Flyers are a specific type of unit, and it is somewhat unclear as to the rules for shooting at them. Either all units require a 6 to hit them (unless they have a special rule called Skyfire), or this is still the case but only if those flyers move flat-out. Monstrous creatures with the ability to Fly also get this “6-to-hit” rule.
 

Winged Hive Tyrants HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised if to reap the benefits of 'Zoom' they must forgo all shooting attacks and cannot engage in close combat. All they can do is Vector Strike. So they will either be able to contribute offensively, or stay alive. Also we don't know if the 1D3+1 'Vector Strikes' will benefit from AP2 and 2D6 pen against vehicles. Actually, for all we know MC's might have lost their +2D6 to pen vehicles, in substitue for 'Smash!' (half attacks at double strenght). Which in the end would be a huge nerf to MC's. At this point flying MC's sounds like a poor man's Necron Overlord on Command Barge (with mandatory broken Mindshackles).

So...why, exactly, can't a space marine librarian divine the future?

Maelstrom808 wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:You can buy a Bastion that drops from the sky, guns blazing?
I.. I don't know what to say.

It's the next logical step from Land Raiders that drop out of the sky, guns blazing

The fortifications don't really bother me much, and I kind of like the ability to customize the battlefield a bit, as long as it stays fairly balanced. I'm curious to see how you deploy them. Hopefully you deploy them before either player starts putting regular models on the board.

Fortifications don't bother me either. They seem to be fairly point-intensive. And they are actually quite easy to explain: someone just took a strong point right before the battle and reinforced it with weapons/walls/whatever. Even Nids know enough to do that.

Though I can foresee some HQs (IG maybe?) that are famous for fortifying everything Stalingrad,-style and either get extra fortifications or buy them at a discount.

N.I.B. wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:– Flyers are a specific type of unit, and it is somewhat unclear as to the rules for shooting at them. Either all units require a 6 to hit them (unless they have a special rule called Skyfire), or this is still the case but only if those flyers move flat-out. Monstrous creatures with the ability to Fly also get this “6-to-hit” rule.
 

Winged Hive Tyrants HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised if to reap the benefits of 'Zoom' they must forgo all shooting attacks and cannot engage in close combat. All they can do is Vector Strike. So they will either be able to contribute offensively, or stay alive. Also we don't know if the 1D3+1 'Vector Strikes' will benefit from AP2 and 2D6 pen against vehicles. Actually, for all we know MC's might have lost their +2D6 to pen vehicles, in substitue for 'Smash!' (half attacks at double strenght). Which in the end would be a huge nerf to MC's. At this point flying MC's sounds like a poor man's Necron Overlord on Command Barge (with mandatory broken Mindshackles).

On the upside, they mentioned in that battle report that FnP was a 5+ and was ignored by instant death wounds. There was no mention of AP 1-2 or armor ignoring weapons bypassing it, so there is a possibility that catalyst might be a little more useful for TMCs.

Maelstrom808 wrote:It's the next logical step from Land Raiders that drop out of the sky, guns blazing

Land Raiders have been able to deep strike since the release of the Blood Angels codex.

Im most anxious about seeing the full ally rules. Its been a long while since my CSM army fielded propor demons...

Danny Internets wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:It's the next logical step from Land Raiders that drop out of the sky, guns blazing

Land Raiders have been able to deep strike since the release of the Blood Angels codex.

Ya, I know. Doesn't make it any less silly.

Purchasing terrain for points is a fantastic idea, love it. Already one in most IA scenarios, they give 'defenders' less army points than 'attackers' but a crap load of defensive fortifications. Makes for some really fun and diverse games, which will only be better now that you can buy and customise your own fortifications. Definitely something that will require a bit of pre-match chat with your opponent so you can create an exciting mission rather than a lame stalemate.

Allies are rad, opens up a huge number of options for diversifying different armies (proper traitor Guard!, old-school Daemonhunters! CSM/Daemons again!) and makes the mage a hell of a lot more fun by adding in that unexpected factor. Games get predictable when you know you are facing Marines, or Eldar or Imperial Guard etc but now you will have to adapt tactics on the fly when you are faced with a Guardsman gunline covering the advance of several squads of Terminators, or deep striking Obliterators hitting your unguarded flanks as you try to out-maneuvre your Dark Eldar enemy.

Very much looking forward to 6th!

IIRC there's a stratagem in Planetstrike that allows one to DS down a new Bastion.

Therion wrote:

Here's hoping Guard wins that bat-rep.

Considering that both of them are absolutely awful army lists and that the designers and employees of Games Workshop promote a game that is supposed to be played drunk and with the intention of losing in bizarre and random and funny ways anything can happen.

Oh come now, the lists aren't that bad, they are just not totally optimised, some people do like to play diverse lists where evey unit doesnt have a Powerfist and Meltagun, admittedly the stormtroopers and veterans are a bit under-equipped and i would have given the chaos lord better gear but there isnt anything there that really stands out, especially considering some of the WD battle report lists i have seen over the years.

Eldar will probably get X number of new powers for every codex power they buy or will get better versions in a new codex, people need to stop behaving like Chicken Littles already.

OOoooh maybe tyranid broodlords will be able to shoot out balls of death !!

Hallucination scares the piss out of my orks.....and possibly my Tyranids depending on how the pyschic stuff works...

I have some thoughts to contribute on the topic of random charge distances. These come from the moderate amount of games I've played of 8th ed. Fantasy.

1.) I think the 2D6" charge distance is a buff, although I'm not sure it's enough of a buff to counteract the rumored wound allocation system (casualties taken from the front). There will be times you roll low, and don't make the charge, but they very fact that you have a non-trivial chance to make a long charge will add to the threat value of your chargers. No longer will heavy fire units be able to say "I'm outside of 12, no need to move, unload everything". They'll have to take into account that there's a real chance that at 14" or 15", they'll still get hit by assaulters, and keep moving (cutting down on firepower).

2.) I've seen a few people mentioning the 8th ed. system of assault as better, because there is a flat movement minimum plus a random element, and this is better than the completely random 2D6" charge rumored in 6th. This is a silly complaint, because in 40k, you already get the 6" of movement in the movement phase, so there is a minimum charge distance.

3.) If psykic powers go the way of 8th, with the "big 6" super spells. That could be frustrating, but it would also destroy the validity of deathstar units in one go. Opinions may vary one whether that is a good thing.

TechMarine1 wrote:So...why, exactly, can't a space marine librarian divine the future?

He probably can, just not in any way that is meaningful on the battlefield (e.g. through dreams, hallucinatory visions, etc. - not the sort of thing that's useful in combat). That's kind of the whole "thing" for Farseers: that they can cast a few runes and have a gander at a few strands of fate, all at a whim; something a Space Marine is probably not trained to do.

Sunoccard wrote:Only reason I care for the buying of terrain is for the massive number of sentry turrets i've built from left over weapon bitz.

If I can drop 150 points on half a dozen sentries, i'd be very happy.

Ive got tons of heavy weapons & bits sitting around, and if I could buy them to use in game Id be building up turrets real quick.

Sephyr wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:You can buy a Bastion that drops from the sky, guns blazing?
I.. I don't know what to say.

It's the next logical step from Land Raiders that drop out of the sky, guns blazing

The fortifications don't really bother me much, and I kind of like the ability to customize the battlefield a bit, as long as it stays fairly balanced. I'm curious to see how you deploy them. Hopefully you deploy them before either player starts putting regular models on the board.

Fortifications don't bother me either. They seem to be fairly point-intensive. And they are actually quite easy to explain: someone just took a strong point right before the battle and reinforced it with weapons/walls/whatever.

It's the idea I have a problem with. The idea of a thousand ton of stone dropping from space with pin-point precision, takes no damage and immediately start to shoot stuff. I rather have a building crash on top of the enemy.

Updated tyhe rumor tracking thread with the WD confirmations. Looks like the person who posted the BoK rumors earlier was just a C&P from someone else.

That tape measure has to be the stupidest fething thing I have ever laid eyes on.

This bits' fine, the rest of this post wasn't. Please bear in mind the Dakka posting rules in future.
Thanks
Reds8n

BarBoBot wrote:Im most anxious about seeing the full ally rules. Its been a long while since my CSM army fielded propor demons...

My wife would like this as well...she could give her daemons some much needed ranged punch.

I doubt you'll see it in a competitive army. First you have to give up your codex.powers (which if you ask any BA, SW, GK etc... they're already happy with). Second you have to roll on a chart and hope you even get what you want. Then you have to roll again to determine a result which may not be useful. Then I'm sure all codexes will at least get a chance to nullify all powers so that's ANOTHER check against it. Sure its deadly when it works, but the chances aren't great.


I'm very disappointed though. The leaks basically don't tell us anything. Its all flash. Its like showing that a new car has backup cameras, heated seats, cooled cupholders etc; but doesn't tell us its engine, gas mileage, or cost. I guess the only way to know what's REALLY changed is to wait till the 30th

Sorry if I missed this, has there been any specifics at all regarding the restrictions on allies (besides the aforementioned HQ/2 Troops unlock).

Although I hated playing Clan War, any army could take allies from any other list- with a percentage increase depending on the relationship between the factions. So, you could use that cool unit you wanted, but you had to decide if it was worth that 20% increase.

I suspect it will end up being similar to the Codex:Witch Hunters allies allocation scheme though.

N.I.B. wrote:

Sephyr wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:You can buy a Bastion that drops from the sky, guns blazing?
I.. I don't know what to say.

It's the next logical step from Land Raiders that drop out of the sky, guns blazing

The fortifications don't really bother me much, and I kind of like the ability to customize the battlefield a bit, as long as it stays fairly balanced. I'm curious to see how you deploy them. Hopefully you deploy them before either player starts putting regular models on the board.

Fortifications don't bother me either. They seem to be fairly point-intensive. And they are actually quite easy to explain: someone just took a strong point right before the battle and reinforced it with weapons/walls/whatever.

It's the idea I have a problem with. The idea of a thousand ton of stone dropping from space with pin-point precision, takes no damage and immediately start to shoot stuff. I rather have a building crash on top of the enemy.

Well, like Sephyr said, I don't think it's representing an air-dropped bastion. It's representing a structure that has been there all along, that you have occupied, manned, and supplied.

do you think the new rule book will be available for digital download in the near future?

i would rather have a copy of it on my nook or Smart phone (if GW does that)

Has someone played a little too much Starhawk?