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Never heard of Zootopia.

Sad to see a comic release drop so fast. Oh well. Sooner to video, right! I enjoyed it, at least.

 kronk wrote:
Never heard of Zootopia.

Sad to see a comic release drop so fast. Oh well. Sooner to video, right! I enjoyed it, at least.

No kids / nieces / nephews, eh?


At least BvS opened strong. Consider that FF opened weak, and dropped almost as fast, for a clear net loss. BvS should cover its costs.

 Compel wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Ok - for me the various problems with the film were noting to do with him...............in fact he was great. Has he directed or wrtten before?

He directed the 3 time Oscar winning film, Argo - Best Picture, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Editing.
- He both acted in, and directed the film.
His other big recent film was "Gone Girl" but I think his main involvement with that was just acting.

Still, it's a far cry from his 'Daredevil' and 'Gigli' days.

He also did The Town, which is righteously epic.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Compel wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Ok - for me the various problems with the film were noting to do with him...............in fact he was great. Has he directed or wrtten before?

He directed the 3 time Oscar winning film, Argo - Best Picture, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Editing.
- He both acted in, and directed the film.
His other big recent film was "Gone Girl" but I think his main involvement with that was just acting.

Still, it's a far cry from his 'Daredevil' and 'Gigli' days.

He also did The Town, which is righteously epic.

Thanks good to know - not seen any of those apart from Argo which was pretty good

 Mr Morden wrote:


Ok - for me the various problems with the film were noting to do with him...............in fact he was great. Has he directed or wrtten before?

He's written, directed, and produced a lot of stuff.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000255/?ref_=tt_cl_t3

Edit: I'm late to the table again.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Box office numbers are out:
1. $104M - Jungle Book
2. $20.2M - Barbershop 2
3. $10.2M - the Boss (-57%)
4. $9.0M - BvS (-61%)
5. $8.2M - Zootopia

BvS is still losing to, and dropping faster than, the Boss. Zootopia is going to break $900M globally, so it's a 6X blockbuster success for Disney, something that BvS won't likely do.

Zootopia is already financially successful (and critically acclaimed too, if Wikipedia is to be believed). It's sad that BvS just wasn't what it could have been.

Maybe I should watch Zootopia. I forgot it was out as I spent my Easter break catching up with mates across the UK but I thoroughly enjoyed Inside Out and it's said to be on par with that movie in terms of quality - and I do like animated films. Personally I feel more quality goes into them.

But yeah, sad times for BvS. Maybe watch the home release version that has the extra 30 minutes that will tie up the plot holes it has.

Saw it yesterday. I guess I'm becoming jaded, but my overall impression of the movie is 'meh.'

Lex Luthor was like a whiney little wimp, not the confident, calculating character I've seen in comics and stuff. He seems like he would have been better as the Riddler.

The one thing I found VERY annoying with this movie was the constant chatter from TVs reporting on events in the movie, with carefully placed cameos from real life media celebrities. It made it feel a little too real, and not like a fantasy movie that I could watch to get a break from 24/7 mass media. I get that they are trying to make the consequences for god-like superpowers more 'real' feeling, but it was annoying to see Nancy Grace in a movie. It's going to make the movie terribly dated, too.

I thought I'd hate Ben Affleck as Batman, but he wasn't too bad. I think the character is getting a little worn out, though. How many actors have portrayed Batman now?

They could have shown him developing his new suit, too. Like, all of a sudden he just has fancy new powered armor? An R&D sequence of him prepping to fight superman more than just beating an old tire with a sledgehammer would have been welcome.

It seems like they were trying to establish a lot of threads all at once. One minute Batman is ready to stab Supes in the face, the next he's friending him on Facebook because his mommy is named Martha too.

 Cave_Dweller wrote:
The one thing I found VERY annoying with this movie was the constant chatter from TVs reporting on events in the movie, with carefully placed cameos from real life media celebrities. It made it feel a little too real, and not like a fantasy movie that I could watch to get a break from 24/7 mass media. I get that they are trying to make the consequences for god-like superpowers more 'real' feeling, but it was annoying to see Nancy Grace in a movie. It's going to make the movie terribly dated, too.

That was a nod to The Dark Knight Returns, which was a heavy influence on the film.

They could have shown him developing his new suit, too. Like, all of a sudden he just has fancy new powered armor? An R&D sequence of him prepping to fight superman more than just beating an old tire with a sledgehammer would have been welcome.

There were multiple shots of he and Alfred refining the kryptonite and his weaponry.

Y'know, I'm kind of wondering now if the numbers are being affected by the rumors/statements about there being an R-rated rerelease.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Y'know, I'm kind of wondering now if the numbers are being affected by the rumors/statements about there being an R-rated rerelease.

R Rated Re-Release, you say?

*Naked Gal Gadot*
*Naked Gal Gadot*
*Naked Ben Afl...I mean*
*Naked Gal Gadot*

 kronk wrote:

*Naked Ben Afl...I mean*

To be fair, dude is sporting some expensive ink...

 Frazzled wrote:
He also did The Town, which is righteously epic.

Yeah, The Town is cracker of a movie. And before that Affleck did Gone Baby Gone, which is also really good.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Box office numbers are out:
1. $104M - Jungle Book
2. $20.2M - Barbershop 2
3. $10.2M - the Boss (-57%)
4. $9.0M - BvS (-61%)
5. $8.2M - Zootopia

BvS is still losing to, and dropping faster than, the Boss. Zootopia is going to break $900M globally, so it's a 6X blockbuster success for Disney, something that BvS won't likely do.

And now we're back to this again. You're posting the domestic fourth week return, which is a number that is very important to people who are gak at business.

Here's the number that matters, 829m. That's the total worldwide take. That's the only number that matters.

If you really, really can't figure this out, just do an experiment with me. Pretend that BvS held up amazingly in its fourth week in the US, pretend it kept almost all of its third week take and posted 21m. That'd put it in 2nd place for the week. That'd make BvS a great story by the measure you are using. But it would change the total gross from 829m to 841m, or 1.4% more than what it actually took. Do you get it now?

It's cute that someone doesn't get that he's been ignored and won't get a response out of me.

But he just did.

And it also doesn't make his point any less valid.

It does help explain some of the more aggravating aspects of this discussion though.

I guess.

My good lady and I saw it last week.

We had free tickets.

I would very much like to get my time refunded.

The best parts were when my good lady quoted either Deadpool or MST3K. ('Superhero landing! That's got to be hard on the knees!')

As for the studio not noticing how fast the ticket sales bottomed out... that assumes that the studio has idiots in charge of tracking. This is something that studios do pay attention to.

I do not think that Warner Bros. have idiots in charge of tracking - and if they do... well, I hope they aren't surprised at the results when the next Snyderman bombs on them.

The Auld Grump - my good lady says that Deadpool is a romantic comedy, and I'm not about to argue with her. She's smaller than I am, but she fights dirty.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It's cute that someone doesn't get that he's been ignored and won't get a response out of me.

It's so boring that you will continue to do something very silly, and just try and hide from anyone who points out that what you're doing is silly. If you can't even mount a case to defend it, why keep doing it?

 sebster wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It's cute that someone doesn't get that he's been ignored and won't get a response out of me.

It's so boring that you will continue to do something very silly, and just try and hide from anyone who points out that what you're doing is silly. If you can't even mount a case to defend it, why keep doing it?

Jeez get a room you two, at least change your avatars to something Batman/Superman so you're vaguely on topic yeah?


I'm hoping that suicide squad is better than this one. In fact I'm hoping the rest of the DC movies are this just felt..... bleh? I really want to like it but I just can't. But I do think the Batman movie will be good because of ben Afflecks work on the town, man that was a good movie

 KingCracker wrote:
Jeez get a room you two, at least change your avatars to something Batman/Superman so you're vaguely on topic yeah?

Apologies. Probably my two bugbears are terrible business/economic analysis, and the kind of passive aggressiveness people do when they know they’ve been called on their nonsense but don’t defend it or even recognise the criticism, but just keep doing it anyway.

But I agree that I hope Suicide Squad and the rest of the movies will improve from what we’ve gotten so far. I’ve got hope because Suicide Squad looks a lot of fun, but I’ve got doubts because it’s hard to put a finger on exactly what went wrong with MoS and BvS. I mean the individual failings are easy to identify, but it’s hard to pick out exactly what’s wrong with the mindset or approach that led to those failings. Is it as simple as Snyder not being up to scratch?

 George Spiggott wrote:
Is it just me or could Wonder Woman have beaten the big bad by herself?

Yes. The minute she displayed the ability to cut off his limbs and general superior fighting ability, it really would only be a matter of time before she'd manage to decapitate him or cut him in half; a giant crystal growing where his skull and brain used to be wouldn't help him much.

There were a lot of contrived aspects to that fight, frankly.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 George Spiggott wrote:
Is it just me or could Wonder Woman have beaten the big bad by herself?

Yes. The minute she displayed the ability to cut off his limbs and general superior fighting ability, it really would only be a matter of time before she'd manage to decapitate him or cut him in half; a giant crystal growing where his skull and brain used to be wouldn't help him much.

There were a lot of contrived aspects to that fight, frankly.

Yeah she was Kicking serious ass and taking the hits - I guess that they were worried she was too cool and so kept her role small................spend more time on Loony Lex

 sebster wrote:
But I agree that I hope Suicide Squad and the rest of the movies will improve from what we’ve gotten so far. I’ve got hope because Suicide Squad looks a lot of fun, but I’ve got doubts because it’s hard to put a finger on exactly what went wrong with MoS and BvS. I mean the individual failings are easy to identify, but it’s hard to pick out exactly what’s wrong with the mindset or approach that led to those failings. Is it as simple as Snyder not being up to scratch?

A common complaint I see/hear about him is that "he doesn't understand these characters!" Setting aside the inherent problems with a statement like that, I think the problem is the opposite -- sometimes he geeks out a little *too* much, delves too deep, and doesn't necessarily think through how it will go over with general audiences.

In MoS, I get the neck snap, what that moment means in the film, and that he's killed Zod in the comics. But it's jarring, especially to fans who think the Reeve films are the ultimate version of the character and can't put it in the same context that I can. I'll go to my grave saying MoS truly isn't a dark film, not in terms of its visuals nor its story, but I think that one scene is the lens through which some folks view it.

On the BvS side, Snyder's said that it's the closest thing he'll ever have to directing a TDKR movie, and you can see elements of that story all over the film. But as great as TDKR is/was, it's a very dark, not-crowdpleasing story with an extreme version of Batman. Again, it's jarring, especially while Marvel's kicking out film after film of four-color bubblegum pop. And it's admittedly disappointing that it's too intense of a film for my 8 year old.

Remember that the DCEU has a filmmaker-driven approach that won't have the sameness of the MCU. I think SS will be a crowdpleaser, and WW has a chance to be also if in a different way, so the DCEU should still have a little momentum going into JL. Snyder and Terrio just have to execute. IMO, his challenge with JL isn't to emulate Marvel's tone, but to put a more crowdpleasing film together.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 George Spiggott wrote:
Is it just me or could Wonder Woman have beaten the big bad by herself?

Yes. The minute she displayed the ability to cut off his limbs and general superior fighting ability, it really would only be a matter of time before she'd manage to decapitate him or cut him in half; a giant crystal growing where his skull and brain used to be wouldn't help him much.

There were a lot of contrived aspects to that fight, frankly.

Yeah she was Kicking serious ass and taking the hits - I guess that they were worried she was too cool and so kept her role small................spend more time on Loony Lex

This Doomsday was an energy absorber that was getting stronger with each landed blow. Note the glow where each strike lands. The longer that fight goes, the more dangerous that shockwave ability would become, and it was clear that if it went off in Metropolis it would have put the MoS damage to shame. They were only fighting Doomsday to occupy it and keep it from leaping into the city before they could use the kryptonite.

And having seen it twice now, I don't think there's anything in that fight that suggests she was winning. She got knocked around quite a bit, and could only barely hold DD with the lasso at the fight's conclusion.

 gorgon wrote:
A common complaint I see/hear about him is that "he doesn't understand these characters!" Setting aside the inherent problems with a statement like that, I think the problem is the opposite -- sometimes he geeks out a little *too* much, delves too deep, and doesn't necessarily think through how it will go over with general audiences.

Yeah, I don’t see how anyone can walk out of BvS thinking Snyder is anything but a hardcore comic geek. I agree he goes too far the other way – the dream sequence gave DC fans parademons and hints at a strange Darkseid/Superman alliance, but people unfamiliar with the comics were just watching some really random stuff.

I think most of the time when comic fans complain that a character isn't well understood, what they really mean is that the character as displayed is different from their personally preferred version of the character.

In MoS, I get the neck snap, what that moment means in the film, and that he's killed Zod in the comics. But it's jarring, especially to fans who think the Reeve films are the ultimate version of the character and can't put it in the same context that I can. I'll go to my grave saying MoS truly isn't a dark film, not in terms of its visuals nor its story, but I think that one scene is the lens through which some folks view it.

I was really surprised to find out that was the bit that bothered people. Compared to the space dragon and Lois Lane running around shooting Kryptonians with the help of space ghost Russel Crowe, I though the neck snap was well grounded, and one of the few moments in that film that had meaning.

Remember that the DCEU has a filmmaker-driven approach that won't have the sameness of the MCU. I think SS will be a crowdpleaser, and WW has a chance to be also if in a different way, so the DCEU should still have a little momentum going into JL. Snyder and Terrio just have to execute. IMO, his challenge with JL isn't to emulate Marvel's tone, but to put a more crowdpleasing film together.

I think DC’s was right to take a different tone to Marvel – you’re coming in late to the game you have to be doing something different. And I think there’s plenty of scope for a satisfying, crowdpleasing film to be a dark and serious film – The Dark Knight was the box office standard for comic books for a long time, and is probably still the most liked comic book movie. It really comes down to execution – I think BvS disappointed not because it was dark, but because of the execution. The pacing was way off, and the basic conflict between Superman and Batman was poorly explained and explored.

 sebster wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
A common complaint I see/hear about him is that "he doesn't understand these characters!" Setting aside the inherent problems with a statement like that, I think the problem is the opposite -- sometimes he geeks out a little *too* much, delves too deep, and doesn't necessarily think through how it will go over with general audiences.

Yeah, I don’t see how anyone can walk out of BvS thinking Snyder is anything but a hardcore comic geek. I agree he goes too far the other way – the dream sequence gave DC fans parademons and hints at a strange Darkseid/Superman alliance, but people unfamiliar with the comics were just watching some really random stuff.

I think most of the time when comic fans complain that a character isn't well understood, what they really mean is that the character as displayed is different from their personally preferred version of the character.

In MoS, I get the neck snap, what that moment means in the film, and that he's killed Zod in the comics. But it's jarring, especially to fans who think the Reeve films are the ultimate version of the character and can't put it in the same context that I can. I'll go to my grave saying MoS truly isn't a dark film, not in terms of its visuals nor its story, but I think that one scene is the lens through which some folks view it.

I was really surprised to find out that was the bit that bothered people. Compared to the space dragon and Lois Lane running around shooting Kryptonians with the help of space ghost Russel Crowe, I though the neck snap was well grounded, and one of the few moments in that film that had meaning.

Remember that the DCEU has a filmmaker-driven approach that won't have the sameness of the MCU. I think SS will be a crowdpleaser, and WW has a chance to be also if in a different way, so the DCEU should still have a little momentum going into JL. Snyder and Terrio just have to execute. IMO, his challenge with JL isn't to emulate Marvel's tone, but to put a more crowdpleasing film together.

I think DC’s was right to take a different tone to Marvel – you’re coming in late to the game you have to be doing something different. And I think there’s plenty of scope for a satisfying, crowdpleasing film to be a dark and serious film – The Dark Knight was the box office standard for comic books for a long time, and is probably still the most liked comic book movie. It really comes down to execution – I think BvS disappointed not because it was dark, but because of the execution. The pacing was way off, and the basic conflict between Superman and Batman was poorly explained and explored.

Exalted. I agree with everything that was said here.

Cracked.com actually did an article on what DC needs to do to compete with Marvel, and it does raise some interesting points.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-dc-must-do-to-keep-up-with-marvel/

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Cracked.com actually did an article on what DC needs to do to compete with Marvel, and it does raise some interesting points.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-dc-must-do-to-keep-up-with-marvel/

There are some good points there, but that author also I think delves a bit too much into their own inner hate for what DC has become

I think the biggest flaw I see with DC and their films is that they're honestly trying too much to replicate Marvel's marketing strategy when they haven't even figured out how to make a good adaptation of their source material. It's like trying to run before you can walk. I guess the author kind of hints at that when he says the need a soft ball, but I'm not sure that's really the issue; DC just doesn't know how to have any fun. That has nothing to do with the character's it tries to lead with. It's not a problem with Batman or Superman. It's a problem with how DC makes movies.

Man of Steel took itself too seriously for its own good, and it didn't play around with the more human side of Super Man's character (Clark Kent). Likewise, BvS takes itself far too seriously I think. It doesn't engage at all its own goofiness, nor does it have any real charm. It's a long series of spectacle scenes that demand we take them seriously, and it all just feels so empty.

Marvel's method of creating genre films with Super Heroes is proven and effective. Imagine; a film about an alien on Earth. He knows he doesn't belong, he knows this isn't his home, but he has no where else to go. Don't look at it as a super hero film. It's a film about living. About how strange the world can be and how alien. Sure the character is an alien but that's not the point. He's just an outside eye watching us and all the silly things we do while trying to find some way to fit in. Really that's what we're all doing isn't it? The film starts with him clumsily navigating day to day life inter spaced with a rising threat that only he can stop. He decides "I totally belong here" and accepts the goofiness as a worthy part of humanity and life.

No. Not superman. I'm talking about Martin Manhunter here, who I'll remind Zack Snyder derided years ago as a stupid character on the most base and dumb logic I've ever seen. I think that mentality is everything wrong with DC's film attempts, and with Snyder. They refuse to accept the goofiness of being a comic book franchise, and in that the Cracked article I think is dead on.

It was Goyer who went on about J'onn J'onzz wasn't it ?

You would be correct XD

Cracked has a few good points, mostly stating the obvious. Not everything should be a Batman movie, all Batman, all the time. Especially when so many DC supers are so inherently silly. And rushing things did nobody any favors.

But Suicide Squad should be good, even if BvS was bad.

Also, Martian Manhunter is awesome. I would pay to see him. Even the New 52 version.

ETA - Goyer is fething tool. He's almost certainly a large part of the reason that both MoS and BvS sucked. Feth that guy, because he's fething killing DC's movies in the writing.