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Before the game starts the Deceiver can redeploy a monolith to within 12" of the enemy. You can then bring in an assault unit from the tombworld on your first turn, then move and charge.
Yep, that's a really solid combo at the moment. Expensive, but good.
You'll want to bring a unit that can do well by itself, but I don't think any of our melee units "need" to be accompanied by Characters so much as they're just better whne they are. I'm thinking Praetorians are a good pick, since the redeploy + 10" move gives them a 1" charge if you go first, and only marginally longer if they go first and run away.
Don't think that works. Core rules state that any unit that is teleported/deployed mid turn cannot move/advance further in that turn. It's under the reinforcements section on the core rule book.
Psienesis wrote: While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
Before the game starts the Deceiver can redeploy a monolith to within 12" of the enemy. You can then bring in an assault unit from the tombworld on your first turn, then move and charge.
Yep, that's a really solid combo at the moment. Expensive, but good.
You'll want to bring a unit that can do well by itself, but I don't think any of our melee units "need" to be accompanied by Characters so much as they're just better whne they are. I'm thinking Praetorians are a good pick, since the redeploy + 10" move gives them a 1" charge if you go first, and only marginally longer if they go first and run away.
Don't think that works. Core rules state that any unit that is teleported/deployed mid turn cannot move/advance further in that turn. It's under the reinforcements section on the core rule book.
No, they can't advance or move yet they can still charge. Since it isn't the beginning of the turn, By My Will and Wave of Command can't add the 1 inch to your charge.
We won't be getting Charges off of Deepstrike very often, unlike armies that get rerolls on charges.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
Punisher wrote: Everyone saying the destroyer lord is bad, it's pretty cheap for the stats it has, 135 pt beat stick that buffs destroyers isn't bad.
Plus it has the fly special rule so it can cut flyers to ribbons in close combat.
Is he still a "beat stick", though?
He only hits on a 3+, where as the Overlords are all 2+.
He's lost Preferred Enemy, so while he can still reroll his melee to-hit 1s, he can no longer do so with his melee to-wound 1s, which was his big thing.
It looks like his role is now to hover at the back and encourage Heavy Destroyers to hurt things better.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Before the game starts the Deceiver can redeploy a monolith to within 12" of the enemy. You can then bring in an assault unit from the tombworld on your first turn, then move and charge.
Yep, that's a really solid combo at the moment. Expensive, but good.
You'll want to bring a unit that can do well by itself, but I don't think any of our melee units "need" to be accompanied by Characters so much as they're just better whne they are. I'm thinking Praetorians are a good pick, since the redeploy + 10" move gives them a 1" charge if you go first, and only marginally longer if they go first and run away.
You think that's bad, add Zahndrekh and Obyron to the mix.
1- Set up Monolith and Deceiver on table. Stick Zahndrekh in Tomb World reserves. Stick Obyron somewhere out of sight on the table next to a particularly nasty unit (Scythe-guard?)
2- Grand Illusion the Deceiver and Monolith (plus 1 or 2 other units if you're lucky?) to the other side of the table.
3- Turn 1, Zahn steps out of Monolith and whistles for Obyron.
4- "Hello there."
(we can charge turn 1, right?)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:15:58
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
Before the game starts the Deceiver can redeploy a monolith to within 12" of the enemy. You can then bring in an assault unit from the tombworld on your first turn, then move and charge.
Yep, that's a really solid combo at the moment. Expensive, but good.
You'll want to bring a unit that can do well by itself, but I don't think any of our melee units "need" to be accompanied by Characters so much as they're just better whne they are. I'm thinking Praetorians are a good pick, since the redeploy + 10" move gives them a 1" charge if you go first, and only marginally longer if they go first and run away.
Don't think that works. Core rules state that any unit that is teleported/deployed mid turn cannot move/advance further in that turn. It's under the reinforcements section on the core rule book.
Good catch, almost missed that (it's in the sidebar? Come on GW.) Still, 9" isn't unheard of.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Before the game starts the Deceiver can redeploy a monolith to within 12" of the enemy. You can then bring in an assault unit from the tombworld on your first turn, then move and charge.
Yep, that's a really solid combo at the moment. Expensive, but good.
You'll want to bring a unit that can do well by itself, but I don't think any of our melee units "need" to be accompanied by Characters so much as they're just better whne they are. I'm thinking Praetorians are a good pick, since the redeploy + 10" move gives them a 1" charge if you go first, and only marginally longer if they go first and run away.
You think that's bad, add Zahndrekh and Obyron to the mix.
1- Set up Monolith and Deceiver on table. Stick Zahndrekh in Tomb World reserves. Stick Obyron somewhere out of sight on the table next to a particularly nasty unit (Scythe-guard?)
2- Grand Illusion the Deceiver and Monolith (plus 1 or 2 other units if you're lucky?) to the other side of the table.
3- Turn 1, Zahn steps out of Monolith and whistles for Obyron.
4- "Hello there."
(we can charge turn 1, right?)
Oh. Oh that's gross. Oh that's so good and gross.
We've done it, 8th edition Necrons. We've made what looks like a legit (if expensive) combo from Obyron, the Deceiver, and a Monolith. If only 7th could see us now...
That combo is hilarious. Seems really strong, really expensive(Just shy of 1300pts), but strong. Time will tell how good each unit needed for the combo is, but as it stands it's a good way to charge into combat on turn 1.
Now the question is warscythes or shields on the lytchguard.
Psienesis wrote: While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
Unit thoughts on Day 1 (or technically like Day -17)
Spoiler:
Named Characters
-Imotekh: Points up, statline up, combat up, shooting up. Abilities got better, the buff to Flayed Ones is way more usable than the old crappy DS one, and the Storm is much more reliable (and you can use the Command Point reroll on it if you need to). I think he may actually be worthwhile in this edition, especially if you’re going for some sort of Flayed One fun time.
-Zahndrekh: Points up, statline a bit up, abilites down, combat a bit up. Eh, situational now. If the meta turns into one where shutting off abilities with Counter-Tactics is strong, he’ll be an auto-include. But, for everything else, he’s a bit sub-par.
-Obyron: Points up, statline up, combat up. As a beatstick, he’s better, but you never really brought him to just wail on things. So… eh? Pass I think.
-Orikan: Points up, statline up, combat up. Abilities are better since he just gives units a 5++ in both shooting and melee, making him a strong buff to any unit he’s nearby. His melee statline makes him pretty scary to many things in the game, so he still fulfils the buffing beatstick profile that we like. Still worth taking. Stick him with Warscythe Lychguard or Flayed Ones for something truly brutal.
-Szeras: Points up, statline a bit up, shooting the same. Abilities are a bit bad, since they’re still random and he doesn’t hand out 5++ like other Crypteks. Still a decent shooting platform that can stick around Immortals or Warriors to give them 4+ RP and supplement their statlines, so… not all terrible? But still one of the lesser options imo.
-Anrakyr: Points up by 7 so basically unchanged. Shooting is the same, but his buffs are way better, able to turn any unit into a decent beatstick or just give the general Overlord buff to any unit. Gained an Invuln! Actually quite good now - buffs things, fights well, and can potentially blast a vehicle or monster with his Arrow. Good choice!
-Trazyn: Not even gonna write about him. He was bad in 7th, he’s worse now somehow. Pass, unless you really want a fluffy army.
HQ -Overlord: A bit more expensive, but not by much. Now has a solid buff, and the Staff of Light is decent in melee, so even without a Warscythe he’s a good beatstick. Warscythe is better, of course. Res Orbs have amazing troll potential.
-Lord: Eehhh… I dunno yet. The reroll isn’t that big since we’re all LD10, but can be useful. Another Res Orb holder. His statline is ok but nothing amazing. Not an auto-take but I can see one being ok.
-Cryptek: Very good. Very good indeed. Points only up a bit compared to before, but affects multiple units, so it’s ok. Statline is actually better since he’s not garbage in combat anymore. There should be at least one of these in every list, I’m thinking.
-CCB: Good and bad. Price is about the same, durability is different from before but maybe worse overall? But now can hide behind units. Probably best to stick with Praetorians since he can buff them while they bodyguard him, but Wraiths work too. Pretty good fighty unit I think, will see some on the table but not overbearing since you can’t get 2+ and what not.
-Destroyer Lord: Slightly more expensive, and serves different roles now. Still a decent beatstick, but now also can be used as a bodyguard/buffbot for Destroyer units as well. Maybe not as good as before, but it’ll depend on how Destroyer armies look.
Troops
-Warriors: Cheaper, with better guns? What’s the catch? Well, not as durable by themselves, but a big blob backed up by Crypteks, Ghost Arks, and Res Orbs is even harder to kill than before. These are great. Take 15-20 and have fun.
-Immortals: A bit pricier now, but dang their guns are good. Either Rend -2 or a crapton of shots. And Tesla can proc on a 5+ if you’re with an Overlord! I think 10+ units of Tesla are good for the buff, but 5 man units of Gauss will be really strong MSU units. Very good options.
Transport
-Ghost Ark: A bit underwhelming, but adds resiliency to Warriors. Shooting is pretty good now that you can use both Flayer Arrays on a single target, getting 10-20 shots in one go. Fast now, too, so you can get Warriors and Ark alike up field and laying down fire quickly. Can potentially get plinked down by mid-range shooting, so watch out for that.
Fast Attack
-Tomb Blades: Bloody expensive now, but got lots of nice boosts. 2 Wounds is good, higher speed is good, double the shots for Gauss, 4x the shots for Tesla. Can hang around with a CCB for Res Orb shenanigans. Their use now might be more for high-damage flanking, since they’re likely to just die. But they’re a bit expensive for suicide runs, so take that with caution.
-Destroyers: Also expensive now, 150% the old price, but with an extra wound and a lot of speed. No more JSJ (though that seems gone in general). Cannons are great - will eat multi-wound models for breakfast and are a great way to chew down big monsters/vehicles. Much more elite than previously, but can be great if you’re against other elite armies with their speed and damage.
-Wraiths: Whoo boy. Even more durable than before (though no more Harvest for RP), just as fast. Cheaper? Wow. Damage is different now - harder to wound things on a 2, but also harder to be forced into wounding on 6s. AP -1 is different from rending - more reliable overall, but less swingy. I think they’re great if you still want to take 18. Beamers are decent now since you can actually shoot them decently, though they don’t straight remove models. MWs are always cool though. Whip Coils seem… eh? Attacking before dying is nice but save the points unless you’ve got nothing better to put them on.
-Scarabs: Pretty buffed, now will be doing 3+ to hit and 5+ to wound at a minimum on every target. And cheaper now, so a big swarm isn’t as costly. Can make a great tarpit unit, and can grab that 5+ in cover.
Flyers
-Night Scythe: Points up, shooting is better. Durability is different. No longer safe behind “Snapshoot only”, now can be plinked down over turns. But high Wound count and 3+ makes it still relatively safe. Invasion Beams got a bit more flexibility, since you can “transport” multiple units and drop which one you need. Some tactics here.
-Doom Scythe: Got a lot more expensive, but the shooting is way better and more reliable. Much like the Night Scythe, starting on the board is great since you get it for the full game, and no more facings means that the Death Ray is going to be laying down the hurt against many units, all the time. Just be careful to not run off the board.
Elite
-Praetorians: A smidge more expensive, but a better statline other than being slightly slower. Rods are still good shooting, but either weapon is good in melee. I think these guys are pretty legit.
-Lychguard: Slight point jump, but have a lot of synergies with characters and got another wound. Shields are worse, but coming back with full wounds from RP sorta makes up for it. Both weapons are solid in melee, though Warscythes are obviously better.
-Flayed Ones: A fair sight more expensive, but now they can reliably use reserves, have synergies, and can bring back lost models. Yeah, worth it. Just as good against most infantry, a bit better against harder targets with the new wound chart.
-Deathmarks: Super good. Bumped up by a minor cost per model, but worth it. Traded wounding on 2+ out of reserves and Sniper for reliable Reserves and MWs on 6s, still can Intercept units, and can pick out Characters. Overall less killy than before, unless you roll hot on 6s, but the reliability more than makes up for it.
-Stalker: A big old brick now. Went up a fair amount in points, but is very hard to pop now and is way faster (10” until it gets hurt!). Still buffs shooting, and the melee profile got better with an actual AP value now and d3 damage. We’ll be seeing these aplenty.
-C’tan Deceiver: Powers got buffed, which is huge. Redeploy went from “in your deployment zone” to “give him and d3 units Infiltrate”, which is extremely dope. And an extremely good melee profile. And cheaper. And a Character so can hide behind models. Literally what is not to love? This guy rocks!
-C’tan Nightbringer: Trades the Deceiver’s tricky deployment for a beastly shooting and melee profile. Yeah, worthwhile. Once this guy gets into the enemy’s lines, he’s just going to take things apart.
Heavy Support
-Spyders: A bit middling. Up in points, statline went up to match. Repair is actually worthwhile now that vehicles have something between “full health” and “dead”. Gloom Prisms being straight Deny attempts is better than before. So a decent support unit, especially if you’re using Scarabs, but I’m not huge on them until I see them in action. Pass on the gun.
-Doomsday Arks: The sauce. Reasonable jump in points, but now way better survivability and more reliable shooting. With the new Deep Strike rules, it’s easy to protect against Drop Pods and the like, and Quantum Shielding protects against long range multi-damage things like Lascannons. Can get chipped down, but better overall and one of our better anti-heavy options.
-Annihilation Barges: Expensive and fairly fragile, but they put out a lot of shooting. Not too hot on them just yet, but time will tell. I think they might cost a bit much and we already have a lot of anti-infantry and weight of fire.
-Monoliths: 1000% improved. Deep Striking? Mass firepower? Utility? Yeah, this brick rocks. And good luck tying it down since it Flys for retreat and shoot. Lots of good AP shots plus a solid frame.
-Heavy Destroyers: Expensive, but once again one of our best mobile anti-heavy platforms. Not the only option with the improved Doom Scythe and Doomsday Ark, but still good. Range and speed, plus built in rerolls and a 2+ when standing in cover is solid. The price makes spamming them even harder than before, but multi-damage shooting is a bit scarce in our force so it might be worthwhile.
Lord of War
-Tesseract Vault: Up in price, up in durability sorta? All powers + spheres means this thing is going to put out a lot of hurt. Still, a quarter of your army in “regular” sized games is… wow.
-Obelisk: Slightly more expensive than a Monolith, for way more shots that hit better, but also no AP. Decent MW output if your opponent is spamming Flyers, but overall seems a bit disappointing. The reliable Reserves is nice, I suppose, but mine will probably not hit the table any time soon.
Very happy overall. Can't wait to put builds together.
Punisher wrote: That combo is hilarious. Seems really strong, really expensive(Just shy of 1300pts), but strong. Time will tell how good each unit needed for the combo is, but as it stands it's a good way to charge into combat on turn 1.
Now the question is warscythes or shields on the lytchguard.
Warscythes, obviously.
You want anything they hit to not be standing after that alpha strike (Zahn+Monolith+C'tan+whatever else he might be able to bring shooting, combined with 11 charging Warscythes... that BETTER be enough to cause significant first turn damage to cripple their army!)
But just to confirm, would the Deceiver Bomb™ work with Lychguard? (would they be able to charge turn 1?)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 17:17:42
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
Even after having Ghostwalked over from the other side of the table with Obyron?
(thought I saw something about things not being able to charge after teleporting or something)
Ya they act normally after they port, they just can't move/advance further. They are allowed to charge/shoot normally.
BTW, the monolith should be able to fire all it's weapons at the same target regardless of the hover rule. There is nothing in the rules now that state a weapon has a firing arc. You can shoot behind yourself with hull mounted weapons that don't turn now.
Also I was wondering if anyone knew how the Command Barge worked now. Looks confusing to me, it states that it is commanded by an overlord and then it states that the overlord has x wargear and the barge has y wargear. Are they considered separate models? Do they both attack in Close Combat(since vehicles now can attack)?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 17:50:16
Psienesis wrote: While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
Punisher wrote: Ya they act normally after they port, they just can't move/advance further. They are allowed to charge/shoot normally.
BTW, the monolith should be able to fire all it's weapons at the same target regardless of the hover rule. There is nothing in the rules now that state a weapon has a firing arc. You can shoot behind yourself with hull mounted weapons that don't turn now.
Also I was wondering if anyone knew how the Command Barge worked now. Looks confusing to me, it states that it is commanded by an overlord and then it states that the overlord has x wargear and the barge has y wargear. Are they considered separate models? Do they both attack in Close Combat(since vehicles now can attack)?
It's one model with one profile. The description just notes them as "mount" and "rider" like Cavalry.
You could probably do it with just the Deceiver and Scythe-Guard, plus either Zahndrekh+Obyron or the Monolith (... but I was going for maximum ridiculousness).
I wonder if it's possible to figure out a genuinely good first turn combo with these things, though.
Grand Illusion sets the first stuff up 12" away, so there's our base number.
With all of them in play the Scythe-Guard would be right next to anything they wanted to be next to (12" - 3" (for Zahn Monolith disembark) - 6" (for near Zahn) = 3" charge)
Problem is it costs 1237 points... so pure ridiculous.
With Deceiver+Zahn+Oby+LG they would be 6" away for 856... but they'd be missing all that firepower from the Monolith (though you still might be able to bring something else along to shoot if the Grand Illusion roll was 2 or 3)
With Deceiver+Mono+LG they would be 9" away for 906. They'd have a lot of support from the Monolith for the difference of only one less Warscythe and Staff of Light... but a 9" charge is a little more risky.
You could instead substitute the Monolith for a Night Scythe - they start on the board and set up units the same distance away as the Monolith, for around half the cost. So you can do 1030 for 10 Scytheguard + Obyron + Zahndrekh + Scythe + Deciever.
Less shooty and more fragile (other than the -1 to hit). Also starting a Scythe on the board is a good chance at getting killed early or forced into a corner and die, so careful of that.
So getting my math hammer on making a sheet to tell you how points efficent various units are against various targets. Still a work in progress, but here is a few units against MeQ:
as expected our leaders are not very efficient at killing marines, part of that whole anti-deathstar thing I imagine. Also unsurprising, immortals are our best unit for killing MeQ. Tomb Blades are solid, but not quite the bargain they were in 7th ed.
When it's finished you can just put in the targets toughness, wounds, save and invulnerable save and it will tell you how good every necron unit is at killing that unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 18:06:00
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
skoffs wrote: You could probably do it with just the Deceiver and Scythe-Guard, plus either Zahndrekh+Obyron or the Monolith (... but I was going for maximum ridiculousness).
I wonder if it's possible to figure out a genuinely good first turn combo with these things, though.
Grand Illusion sets the first stuff up 12" away, so there's our base number.
With all of them in play the Scythe-Guard would be right next to anything they wanted to be next to (12" - 3" (for Zahn Monolith disembark) - 6" (for near Zahn) = 3" charge)
Problem is it costs 1237 points... so pure ridiculous.
With Deceiver+Zahn+Oby+LG they would be 6" away for 856... but they'd be missing all that firepower from the Monolith (though you still might be able to bring something else along to shoot if the Grand Illusion roll was 2 or 3)
With Deceiver+Mono+LG they would be 9" away for 906. They'd have a lot of support from the Monolith for the difference of only one less Warscythe and Staff of Light... but a 9" charge is a little more risky.
Is there a good way to do this?
I feel the monolith is necessary. Without it theyre stranded, and the rest of our CC isn't going to catch up in a hurry. Monolith provides a brick wall for rest of army, then you can start rolling out flayed ones etc.
If you're using Monoliths or Night Scythes for Tomb World shenanigans, bring multiple. Because the game that you decide to put multiple units on the Tomb World is the one where all dice go wrong and your Monolith dies on turn 2.
Requizen wrote: You could instead substitute the Monolith for a Night Scythe - they start on the board and set up units the same distance away as the Monolith, for around half the cost. So you can do 1030 for 10 Scytheguard + Obyron + Zahndrekh + Scythe + Deciever.
Whoa whoa whoa,
Flyers can start on the table now?
Guess I should probably look through the rules.
As great as a discount would be to do effectively the same thing, if you go the NS route it's a kamikaze mission. Everyone's gonna be stranded there with no backup until the rest of your army catches up.
With the Monolith you've got a significant distraction Carnifex that's actually contributing quite a lot to the havoc around it. Yeah, the Scythe-Guard are going to be doing most of the damage, but the shooting beforehand from those three is going to be intense!
Gonna need to do some math to figure out exactly what kind of damage the Deceiver Bomb (D-Bomb for short) is capable of putting out, and whether it would be enough of an alpha strike to genuinely consider using.
Requizen wrote: You could instead substitute the Monolith for a Night Scythe - they start on the board and set up units the same distance away as the Monolith, for around half the cost. So you can do 1030 for 10 Scytheguard + Obyron + Zahndrekh + Scythe + Deciever.
Whoa whoa whoa,
Flyers can start on the table now?
Guess I should probably look through the rules.
As great as a discount would be to do effectively the same thing, if you go the NS route it's a kamikaze mission. Everyone's gonna be stranded there with no backup until the rest of your army catches up.
With the Monolith you've got a significant distraction Carnifex that's actually contributing quite a lot to the havoc around it. Yeah, the Scythe-Guard are going to be doing most of the damage, but the shooting beforehand from those three is going to be intense!
Gonna need to do some math to figure out exactly what kind of damage the Deceiver Bomb (D-Bomb for short) is capable of putting out, and whether it would be enough of an alpha strike to genuinely consider using.
You can all in on it by also finding a way to get Anrakyr in there (TWO MONOLITHS?) for that sweet +1 Attack.
Yeah I agree that the Monolith is probably the way to go. You definitely want the staying power and damage output, I was just addressing the price.
The lists I'm delving into will be Silver Tide, personally. I wonder how hard it would be to fill out a Brigade in 2000 points for +9(!!!) Command Points. Probably pretty hard.
Shooting:
12x S5 AP-2 1D
6x S8 AP-2 1-3D
3x S5 AP-2 1D
+ 1-3 Mort.W
+ whatever else comes with the Grand Illusion
Melee:
*34x S7 AP-4 2D
I don't know how to mathhammer, so someone else is going to have to figure out probability with BS and WS differences between all the units involved.
Does look like a metric crap ton of potential damage for a first turn delivery, though.
*it'd be amazing if Anrakyr could give them +1 attack and MWBD before Obyron whisks them away, but that'd be a 3rd HQ in an already plenty ridiculous setup.
Honestly the only real problem I see with using night scythes to drop Lychguard into combat turn 1 is that you can't have a character follow them because it isn't a real transport.
Edit: Turn 2 actually, but still.
It's weird catapulting bodyguards into the foe without their charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 19:06:09
Created a Google sheet so you can play around with different target profiles and figure out what units are good or not. Flayed ones are wrong, but it wasn't worth the effort to fix them,
Tesla continues to be disappointing, The humble immortal is the hardest hitting mofo in the necron army per point, at least against MEQ. Our vehicles are awkward, aside from the monolith they aren't tough, and their weapon profiles are hard to squeeze into a solid strategy, mostly because they still haven't figured out a way to make tesla good yet. In the calcs I assumed that vehicles can still spin like a top to fire weapons from all arks, which is dumb, but appears to be RAW.
Just add it to your google drive and then go nuts, maybe we can get a head start on figuring out our meta.
*edit* added a few tabs for common enemy configs in case you don't want to bring it into your drive
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 20:16:17
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
The good:
- Scythe guard are great, especially with the movement options of the deceiver, monolith, and nightscythe.
- both named C'tan are great! Plus they can hide behind other units.
- warriors and immortals are anti-infantry lawnmowers.
- destroyer lords are great.
- crypteks are now must takes.
- all the canoptek choices are good.
- monoliths if use are making use of their reserve abilities.
The bad:
- annihilation barges, very fragile and quite pricey.
- lords, no idea what use they will be for the cost.
- destroyers, so expensive and poor damage output.
- lords of war still blow.
The ugly:
- our anti tank. Doomscythes, heavy destroyers, and doomsday arks, all perform the duty just very expensive point wise. Necessary picks in almost any list just a tough tax to swallow.
- Praetorians, fast durable and decent at shooting and CC. They're also fearless thus very independent. But that general use is also a weakness to specialist units.
- deathmarks are still decent just low damage output.
- monoliths in a list not optimized for their use since they are so expensive.
- tomb blades. Got a durability and firepower boost but darn are they expensive. Can't think of a great use yet (msu or blob).
The AP we get from phasing out the gauss rule is kind of a huge deal, immortals specifically are point for point i think the strongest infantry in the game right now when it comes to medium to short range fire fights.
My worry though is that's about all necrons have going for them. All our quirky specialized units feel like point traps, the borderline promising tomb blades, preatorians, and lychguard are also all the 2w models that will attract every plasma gun and missile launcher shot which keeps me from being too optimistic about them. Mobility and high strength/high damage weapons are both incredibly expensive which means we aren't great at getting to that ideal range against longer range shooting armies and we aren't great at stopping big mean transports/MCs from dumping assaults on us.
Feels like necrons will excel at any traditional 'fair' fight where 2 armies squat in cover on objectives ~24" away from each other but will be pretty easy to play around for more specialized armies. I don't think i'd have fun running the turn 1 assault gimmick even if it isn't quickly FAQ'd away, which it almost certainly will be.
Grimgold wrote: So getting my math hammer on making a sheet to tell you how points efficent various units are against various targets. Still a work in progress, but here is a few units against MeQ:
as expected our leaders are not very efficient at killing marines, part of that whole anti-deathstar thing I imagine. Also unsurprising, immortals are our best unit for killing MeQ. Tomb Blades are solid, but not quite the bargain they were in 7th ed.
When it's finished you can just put in the targets toughness, wounds, save and invulnerable save and it will tell you how good every necron unit is at killing that unit.
So if I am reading this correct, scarabs are solid against MEQ and are going to be awesome against high T models.
I decided that Grimgold did some excellent mathhammer earlier, so I've made the chart below for our shooty infantry:
This is the points per wound for each unit against the target at the top (where Wx means any number of wounds greater than 3). I've done it against what I think should be fairly common profiles: GEQ, Orks, Necron Warriors, MEQ, Primaris, Terminators (no invuln though, foolishly), Plague marines, etc. I missed off the gauss flayer arrays for the Doomsday Ark as I felt they'd often be out of range or targeting other things. Still, there's a few takeaways from it:
1) Heavy destroyers are, point for point, the best all around anti-tank unit we have. Seemed fairly obvious, but it's now here in black and white.
2) Annihilation barges are quite good fire bases. I modelled them as moving with a gauss cannon, so 153 points and -1 to hit for the gauss, and they're pretty good, usually a little better than Immortals. I think I'm actually sold on them being pretty good on this basis.
3) Deathmarks are bad on paper. Sure, they can snipe out characters, but the chance they actually kill one is pretty slim. I dunno, maybe deep striking and sniping make up for their shortcomings, but they seem pretty mediocre.
4) Destroyers are almost as point efficient as a death ray on its own. That surprised me quite a lot actually, I'd pretty much written them off against vehicles, but it turns out that high rend really helps them. I dunno, maybe I'll try them out.
5) Doom Scythes are quite good all rounders due to their mix of guns.
6) The Triarch Stalker isn't entirely fairly treated as I haven't accounted for the melta rule at half range. On this basis, it's the worst AT, but realistically you're more taking it for the unit buff anyway. The fact it degrades is absurd though - it's not good to begin with!
7) Immortals are fantastic. Tesla easily outguns Gauss between 12"-24", so the question becomes what range you think you'll be engaging at instead of one being superior. Either way, the question is now mass Warrior bodies for survivability or generally better Immortals?
12,000 
