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If you play the advanced rules, you can reload the bombs for a command points.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
If you play the advanced rules, you can reload the bombs for a command points.

Where's that rule? That would make the HellTalon a beast VS hordes.

Funnily enough, I'm not seeing anyone running actual Chaos Space Marines despite GW's assurances that they would be good. Everyone's running the various cult marines, Havocs, Raptors, Bikes, and characters, but not basic CSM. Does this mean that CSM are really bad? They seem okay since they can take 2 specials and a combiweapon in a 10-man squad, but maybe that's just not good enough.

Problem is Havocs are basically the same thing but better; you want non-cult CSM you just take a Spearhead Detachment and use Havocs as your "troops".

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Funnily enough, I'm not seeing anyone running actual Chaos Space Marines despite GW's assurances that they would be good. Everyone's running the various cult marines, Havocs, Raptors, Bikes, and characters, but not basic CSM. Does this mean that CSM are really bad? They seem okay since they can take 2 specials and a combiweapon in a 10-man squad, but maybe that's just not good enough.

They're not bad, but because the cult marines all have something special and aren't much more expensive, you can do better with those. The logical next thought would be "well if they're cheap enough, maybe they could serve a different purpose" but in a world with plague bearers, pox walkers and brimstone horrors, their durability isn't worth writing home about, even with a 3+ save.

I think they're a good all-around unit, but that the best units do one thing really well and that's why you bring them.

Maybe once "chapter tactics" become a thing, if some tactics favor large numbers the plain CSM will see a rise.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
If you play the advanced rules, you can reload the bombs for a command points.

Where's that rule? That would make the HellTalon a beast VS hordes.

Page 268 of the rulebook under the Death from the skies advanced rules stratagems. It costs 2 CPs but you have to leave the battlefield for one turn.

Funnily enough, I'm not seeing anyone running actual Chaos Space Marines despite GW's assurances that they would be good.

That's because GW screwd up with their detachment. Why take inspid troops when you can take only elite or assault units ?
You did not find the same deal about every army ?

They should have stay with the "basic" detachement imo. Patrol, Battalion and Brigade & auxillary support, fortification & super heavy detachment was all the game needed. Add the capacity for some thematic army to put some units in troops choice (Deathwing & Deathwing Termi, WE & Khorn Berzekers etc...) and the game would have been better.

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
You did not find the same deal about every army ?

Not really, no. Imperial Guard, Tyranids and Daemons off the top of my head have extremely valuable troops choices that are necessities to have in your list.

Gordon Shumway wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
If you play the advanced rules, you can reload the bombs for a command points.

Where's that rule? That would make the HellTalon a beast VS hordes.

Page 268 of the rulebook under the Death from the skies advanced rules stratagems. It costs 2 CPs but you have to leave the battlefield for one turn.

Ah, so it isn't in match play, only Death from the Skies. Bit disappointing. :/

BlaxicanX wrote:

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
You did not find the same deal about every army ?

Not really, no. Imperial Guard, Tyranids and Daemons off the top of my head have extremely valuable troops choices that are necessities to have in your list.

CSM also has cult troops, cultists and Tzaangors that are quite regularly taken in many lists; not all of the uselessness of Chaos Space Marines are due to non-troop detachments.

I've been looking at the Forge World index to choose a big bad something to add to my chaos force and the Renegade Knight Archeron look really good on paper.

It's one of the cheapest knights chaos can get (without going silly and having two melee weapons) and the Archeron flame cannon is insane. Auto hits mean it doesn't degrade too much when damaged, doesn't care about fliers (and changeling) to-hit modifiers and combined with 18" range means it has fantastic over-watch.

The weapon stat line means it's very effective against anything that isn't cheap infantry or T8 super units.

Before I go and break my bank account on one, has anyone got any experience using this bad boy in 8th?

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:
I've been looking at the Forge World index to choose a big bad something to add to my chaos force and the Renegade Knight Archeron look really good on paper.

It's one of the cheapest knights chaos can get (without going silly and having two melee weapons) and the Archeron flame cannon is insane. Auto hits mean it doesn't degrade too much when damaged, doesn't care about fliers (and changeling) to-hit modifiers and combined with 18" range means it has fantastic over-watch.

The weapon stat line means it's very effective against anything that isn't cheap infantry or T8 super units.

Before I go and break my bank account on one, has anyone got any experience using this bad boy in 8th?

Flame cannon makes me giggle madly. The Reaper Chainsword is highly meh, really, that -1 to hit really hurts, and with only 4 attacks, I could see it as being highly underwhelming. That's about 25% of your army's points just for the flame cannon really, and I'm not 100% it would earn back those kind of points.

Guarantee nobody is gonna wanna eat overwatch from that though lol.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:
Flame cannon makes me giggle madly. The Reaper Chainsword is highly meh, really, that -1 to hit really hurts, and with only 4 attacks, I could see it as being highly underwhelming. That's about 25% of your army's points just for the flame cannon really, and I'm not 100% it would earn back those kind of points.

Guarantee nobody is gonna wanna eat overwatch from that though lol.

What about the Knight Atrapos? It's weapons will eat through monsters and vehicles like there's no tomorrow and it's deadly in close combat as well, the biggest problem I see with it is it's 9" range on it's very killy gun and it lacks <Heretic Astartes> keyword so warptime isn't an option. Thoughts?

kaintxu wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

kaintxu wrote:
So if you guys had to add one of the following, which one would you choose?

-renegade knight
- kytan
- lord of skulls
- brass scorpion

I own a Kytan and a LoS.

Id always use the Kytan unless it was some massive game. LoS not only looks like a pile of crap honestly, but its so over coasted its still worthless. Hence why Forgeworld took the cool torso and up part and make it a million times better looking.

Kytan looks good and is good. Same goes for the knight really.

Brass Scorpion is cool, but again very expensive (though less then the LoS which further states why he is terrible) so hes not going to be in any tourney winning list either. but id take him if I played a 3k game and such

What are you taking alongside the Kytan?

Well still I havent decided. I want to try and make something competitive around them. I love all models, but preffer kytan over regular knight and while I love the scorpion, I think LoS is better looking

When it comes to kytan v knight I always go with kytan on the basis is ws/bs does not degrade. I also run be'lakor next time mine for warptime/prescience and having the double tap assault. So even at 1 wound left my kytan can still hit on 2+ re rolling ones(bel aura). Everytime I've brought kytan vs a knight he wins the shootout for that exact reason.

For the artillery guard units that Chaos can take with renegades and heretics, is there any way to give them re-rolls on their to-hit roll?

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:
I've been looking at the Forge World index to choose a big bad something to add to my chaos force and the Renegade Knight Archeron look really good on paper.

It's one of the cheapest knights chaos can get (without going silly and having two melee weapons) and the Archeron flame cannon is insane. Auto hits mean it doesn't degrade too much when damaged, doesn't care about fliers (and changeling) to-hit modifiers and combined with 18" range means it has fantastic over-watch.

The weapon stat line means it's very effective against anything that isn't cheap infantry or T8 super units.

Before I go and break my bank account on one, has anyone got any experience using this bad boy in 8th?

Flame cannon makes me giggle madly. The Reaper Chainsword is highly meh, really, that -1 to hit really hurts, and with only 4 attacks, I could see it as being highly underwhelming. That's about 25% of your army's points just for the flame cannon really, and I'm not 100% it would earn back those kind of points.

Guarantee nobody is gonna wanna eat overwatch from that though lol.

Yeah, the Chainfist is definitely meh, at least it can eat through buildings . But that's why it's so cheap (for a Knight) even though it is faster and has more wounds than a vanilla knight. Given the fact that you're going to be able to choose who you are in combat with, I imagine a lot of time you'll flame vehicles (ideally fliers) then charge infantry to squish under your feet.

Been very tempted to try a slaanesh chaos lord on steed of slaanesh with duel lightning claws, 6 re-rolling to hit, re-rolling to wound attacks seems pretty good.

 Rydria wrote:
Been very tempted to try a slaanesh chaos lord on steed of slaanesh with duel lightning claws, 6 re-rolling to hit, re-rolling to wound attacks seems pretty good.

That's not a bad build. He also has the 2X S4/AP-/Dam 1 attacks from the steeds, and you can take the warlord trait that grants +1 attack when charging. But you'll be relegating him to to bully infantry with S4. Unless you get a Herald into melee with him. I think its worth swapping out a claw for a power/chain fist for the better strength and damage.

So far I've played a deep striking Terminator lord with Combi-bolter and Chainfist in a Lustwing list, and a bike lord with the two combi-bolters and chainfist. Both were good but my go to has been a power armor Lord with just a combi-bolter and power sword. Either camping with my MSU Blastermaster squads and Sonic Dreadnoughts handing our re-rolls. Or advancing with my dismounted Sonic Blaster squads. Its a real shame that he can't take a Sonic Blaster or any assault weapons outside of a combi-flamer though.

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Been very tempted to try a slaanesh chaos lord on steed of slaanesh with duel lightning claws, 6 re-rolling to hit, re-rolling to wound attacks seems pretty good.

That's not a bad build. He also has the 2X S4/AP-/Dam 1 attacks from the steeds, and you can take the warlord trait that grants +1 attack when charging. But you'll be relegating him to to bully infantry with S4. Unless you get a Herald into melee with him. I think its worth swapping out a claw for a power/chain fist for the better strength and damage.

So far I've played a deep striking Terminator lord with Combi-bolter and Chainfist in a Lustwing list, and a bike lord with the two combi-bolters and chainfist. Both were good but my go to has been a power armor Lord with just a combi-bolter and power sword. Either camping with my MSU Blastermaster squads and Sonic Dreadnoughts handing our re-rolls. Or advancing with my dismounted Sonic Blaster squads. Its a real shame that he can't take a Sonic Blaster or any assault weapons outside of a combi-flamer though.

This is the list i'm planning to play today at locals it hasn't been thought threw much it is mainly models I want to try out like the two squads of terminators (squads are numbered 6 mainly for fluff reasons)

Battalion
Daemon prince - 180 (wings, talons)
Chaos Lord - 126 (bike, x2 claws)

x6 terminators - 250 (5 power swords, 1 chainfist, 6 combi-bolters, icon of excess)
x6 terminators - 255 (5 power axes, 1 chainfist, 6 combi-bolters, icon of excess) (There are no rules for power spears anymore so counting them as axes)

x6 Noise marines - 120 (x6 sonic blasters)
x6 Noise marines - 120 (x6 sonic blasters)
x6 Noise marines - 120 (x6 sonic blasters)

Sonic Hellbrute - 171 (scourge, x2 blastmaster)
Sonic Hellbrute - 171 (scourge, x2 blastmaster)
Hellforged Sicaran - 285 (x2 lascannon, twin accelerator autocannon)
Helldrake - 198 (Baleflamer)

Can someone tell me why plaguebearer are considered so good?

I keep looking at them and they don't seem to have anything over the top. They lost the -1 to hit pretty easily and you can also get disgusting resiliency on your pox walkers for less.

 Sersi wrote:

That's not a bad build. He also has the 2X S4/AP-/Dam 1 attacks from the steeds, and you can take the warlord trait that grants +1 attack when charging. But you'll be relegating him to to bully infantry with S4. Unless you get a Herald into melee with him. I think its worth swapping out a claw for a power/chain fist for the better strength and damage.

So far I've played a deep striking Terminator lord with Combi-bolter and Chainfist in a Lustwing list, and a bike lord with the two combi-bolters and chainfist. Both were good but my go to has been a power armor Lord with just a combi-bolter and power sword. Either camping with my MSU Blastermaster squads and Sonic Dreadnoughts handing our re-rolls. Or advancing with my dismounted Sonic Blaster squads. Its a real shame that he can't take a Sonic Blaster or any assault weapons outside of a combi-flamer though.

Can't take a chainfist on a bike lord, unfortunately.

kaintxu wrote:
Can someone tell me why plaguebearer are considered so good?

I keep looking at them and they don't seem to have anything over the top. They lost the -1 to hit pretty easily and you can also get disgusting resiliency on your pox walkers for less.

For 2 points more than a poxwalker you get one more thougness a 5++ and the 5+ disgusting resilient. Poxwalkers have no save other than disgunsting resilient.

The plaguebearers also get to reroll ones to hit, from their poisoned weapons.

You also can make greater blobs with them and over 20 models in the unit they are harder to hit for the enemy.

Ended up playing the following list, which did pretty good, played the relic which my daemon prince seized on my first turn with his 12 inch move, then got it back into my deployment with his 9 inch warp time behind my 3 hellbrutes who moved up to protect him, my terminators both succeeded on there 9inch charges 1 of which needed a command re-roll, killing my opponents two 10 man scout squads and 4 intercessors in 1 primeris squad with a combination of shooting and charging, both terminator squads sadly got slaughtered by Guliman + a imperial knight (battle cannon + avenger gatling cannon) but they did there job, the knight eventually got taken out by the combined shooting from the hellbrutes and the sicaran on turn 3 where my opponent conceded since he only had 5 veterans with flamers and a rhino with any hope of getting to my daemon prince who could have easily dealt with them especially with 3 hellbrutes and a sicaran to get threw.

My army (Emperor's children)

Battalion

HQ
Daemon prince - 180 (wings, talons)
Chaos Lord - 80 (x1 power sword, combi-bolter)

Elites
x6 terminators - 250 (5 power swords, 1 chainfist, 6 combi-bolters, icon of excess)
x6 terminators - 250 (5 power maul, 1 chainfist, 6 combi-bolters, icon of excess)
Sonic Hellbrute - 171 (scourge, x2 blastmaster)
Sonic Hellbrute - 171 (scourge, x2 blastmaster)
Sonic Hellbrute - 171 (scourge, x2 blastmaster)

Troops
x6 Noise marines - 144 (x5 sonic blasters, x1 Blastmaster)
x6 Noise marines - 144 (x5 sonic blasters, x1 Blastmaster)
x6 Noise marines - 144 (x5 sonic blasters, x1 Blastmaster)

Heavy
Hellforged Sicaran - 295 (x2 lascannon, twin accelerator autocannon, heavy bolter)

Opponents army (Ultramarines) (No idea what formations, I think it was just a battalion and two super heavy aux)

Lord of war
Guliman
Imperial knight (battle cannon, avenger gatling cannon, heavy stubber)

HQ
Tigerius
Chaplain (storm bolter, crozius)

Elites
Veterans x5 flamers (In rhino x2 storm bolter)
Veterans x5 flamers (In rhino x2 storm bolter)

Troops
x10 scout snipers
x10 scout snipers
x5 Primeris intercessors
x5 Primeris intercessors

 Darksider wrote:

kaintxu wrote:
Can someone tell me why plaguebearer are considered so good?

I keep looking at them and they don't seem to have anything over the top. They lost the -1 to hit pretty easily and you can also get disgusting resiliency on your pox walkers for less.

For 2 points more than a poxwalker you get one more thougness a 5++ and the 5+ disgusting resilient. Poxwalkers have no save other than disgunsting resilient.

The plaguebearers also get to reroll ones to hit, from their poisoned weapons.

You also can make greater blobs with them and over 20 models in the unit they are harder to hit for the enemy.

also they move 5" not 4"

no fearless thou, which is the big thing for poxwalkers

What are some good options for anti air?

I've been thinking of getting a Xiphon Interceptor. It would have 2 lascannon shots and D3 soulstalker missile shots, hitting flyers on a 2+, and if there were no flyers it could target ground vehicles and suffers no penalty to hit for moving.

Remember stuff with the fly key word can attack flyers in CC

so warp talons, daemon princes etc... opens up some options

Nice report and cool army. But how did the daemonprince take the relic, it is only allowed to get picked up by infantry models?

GorillaWarfare wrote:
What are some good options for anti air?

I've been thinking of getting a Xiphon Interceptor. It would have 2 lascannon shots and D3 soulstalker missile shots, hitting flyers on a 2+, and if there were no flyers it could target ground vehicles and suffers no penalty to hit for moving.

4 Lascannon shots. It has two twin lascannons. Even better!

Bloat drones are good anti air. They are sfast enough to get close , their guns auto hit and are pretty strong. Plus as they have fly they can engage in combat

 Intruder wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

That's not a bad build. He also has the 2X S4/AP-/Dam 1 attacks from the steeds, and you can take the warlord trait that grants +1 attack when charging. But you'll be relegating him to to bully infantry with S4. Unless you get a Herald into melee with him. I think its worth swapping out a claw for a power/chain fist for the better strength and damage.

So far I've played a deep striking Terminator lord with Combi-bolter and Chainfist in a Lustwing list, and a bike lord with the two combi-bolters and chainfist. Both were good but my go to has been a power armor Lord with just a combi-bolter and power sword. Either camping with my MSU Blastermaster squads and Sonic Dreadnoughts handing our re-rolls. Or advancing with my dismounted Sonic Blaster squads. Its a real shame that he can't take a Sonic Blaster or any assault weapons outside of a combi-flamer though.

Can't take a chainfist on a bike lord, unfortunately.

Thanks for the correction. Power fist it is then.