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The uptick of memes as a form of communication on social media has seen some interesting effects in how information is passed on.

For fiction it seems to be having an accelerated flanderising effect where single concepts take on the totality of the concept.

The most egregious I've seen is the Orks invent reality one which has gone from a tech priest not understanding Ork tech, to perceiving red ones going faster to people literally believing that Orks thinking the emperor being tough actually makes him tough... Apart from how infantilising it is for the Orks it undoes the whole point of oddboyz and genetically encoded knowledge, a core part of their existence.

But you see it in a lot of other things too like:

Krieg being all gas mask noises and shovels
Ogryn's being nothing but abhuman labradors
Guilliman and yvraine....

What other memes have you seen gone from injokes amongst fans to repeated as if truth on social media?

Guilliman and Eldar... pretty terrible memes out there.

As much as a liked it, pretty much anything from the TTS animated series.

It's funny but waaaaay too many people took it as a legitimate source for information rather than lore weaved with jokes.

Easy - no sosh apps (cannot agree to their draconian EULAs if I tried), no dumb memes being spammed at me 247

I've had to leave a couple of the hobby groups, due to all of the memes being spammed in them. They're mostly cross-over memes, with Helldivers, and otehr stuff I have no interest in.
But before I left, it was 'Who would win out of a Space Marine and [plot-armoured game person]?'
Due to Titus, SM's are invincible, and cause worldwide depopulation on their own.

Oh that's easy, trump as the emperor.

Marines Malevolent becoming full on victims of nominative determinism based on the one time they totally legitimately/reasonably shelled civilians.

40k is incredibly strange in that it's a long running and ongoing IP, so new stuff is being produced for it all the time, and yet all of the fandom in-jokes and memes are from a very specific time period: 2007-2011 /tg/ board on 4chan are where essentially almost all of the jokes originate from and they just haven't really changed since then. I think the only new "joke" that's been produced is Guilliman and Yvraine. I look at other IP's like One Piece, which originally came out in 1997 and is still ongoing (and when you consider how 40k in 1997 was still half-formed and very new the two IP's aren't that dissimilar in age), and the evolution of in-jokes and memes in One Piece is way more dynamic and interesting and more importantly funny.

1d4chan has also done incredible harm to discourse surrounding the IP.

 Hellebore wrote:
The uptick of memes as a form of communication on social media has seen some interesting effects in how information is passed on.

For fiction it seems to be having an accelerated flanderising effect where single concepts take on the totality of the concept.

The most egregious I've seen is the Orks invent reality one which has gone from a tech priest not understanding Ork tech, to perceiving red ones going faster to people literally believing that Orks thinking the emperor being tough actually makes him tough... Apart from how infantilising it is for the Orks it undoes the whole point of oddboyz and genetically encoded knowledge, a core part of their existence.

But you see it in a lot of other things too like:

Krieg being all gas mask noises and shovels
Ogryn's being nothing but abhuman labradors
Guilliman and yvraine....

What other memes have you seen gone from injokes amongst fans to repeated as if truth on social media?

Well I've recently seen a lot of people using buzzwords like flanderisation like they're writing their end of the year self evaluation about 40K.

Breton wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
The uptick of memes as a form of communication on social media has seen some interesting effects in how information is passed on.

For fiction it seems to be having an accelerated flanderising effect where single concepts take on the totality of the concept.

The most egregious I've seen is the Orks invent reality one which has gone from a tech priest not understanding Ork tech, to perceiving red ones going faster to people literally believing that Orks thinking the emperor being tough actually makes him tough... Apart from how infantilising it is for the Orks it undoes the whole point of oddboyz and genetically encoded knowledge, a core part of their existence.

But you see it in a lot of other things too like:

Krieg being all gas mask noises and shovels
Ogryn's being nothing but abhuman labradors
Guilliman and yvraine....

What other memes have you seen gone from injokes amongst fans to repeated as if truth on social media?

Well I've recently seen a lot of people using buzzwords like flanderisation like they're writing their end of the year self evaluation about 40K.

That's nice, but I've been posting on this forum for 20 years and used that term for almost as long, so if you have nothing to add, move along.

Well, the ones I’ve seen usually grossly misrepresent the background, offering only over simplication.

Now, some of that is inevitable. A meme is of course meant to be snappy and amusing.

Take the aforementioned Orky Teknologee. The only source we really have saying “they make stuff that shouldn’t work”, is a Tech-Priest. And whether high, middle or low ranking? No Tech-Priest should be treated as an authority on any technology.

And so their study of Orky stuff should be interpreted, at worst, as “I don’t understand how this works”. Which, like science denial in the real world, is then presented, by that person as “therefore it can’t possibly work for reals”.

Being keen on Orky background, there are a number of possible explanations I can offer - but by no means are these the only possibilities.

1. The Tech-Priest in question is just an idiot
2. He’s seeing the items out of broader context. A power supply or similar may be missing, as it was wired into the Ork carrying it
3. As Mekboys are wont to do, the underlying principle of the gun’s operation is near miracle-tech, well beyond anything understood by man
4. The Tech-Priest is aware of possibilities, but perceiving Orks only as mindless brutes, discounted those possibilities

And so “hurr durr only work cos they am think it do” is massively and disappointingly misrepresenting things.

It’s also doing a disservice to the satire. As I touched on above, “if I can’t understand it, it’s beyond understanding” is something we see in real world science denial. And here? We can also see elements of pseudo archaeology. As in “but they were so primitive, how could they possibly have learned to stack blocks atop each other, especially if we ignore evidence left behind which shows how it was done, because they were primitive, they must’ve been assisted by a lost master race”.

I’ll also direct folk to the Background thread claiming Eldrad is a bumbling incompetent, listing his failed interventions - with no consideration given that when you’re shtick is nudging fate toward your desired outcome, when it works? Nobody knows it worked, because what once was fate, is now just reality. And that when you’ve foresight, perfect or flawed (and Eldrad’s is flawed, not that he pretends to the contrary), you kind of have to take the risk of intervening to avoid absolute disaster, trusting your skills and abilities to ensure that, even if it doesn’t completely work? The outcome still isn’t as bad as one where you just sat around with your thumb up your butt.

40k Memes getting a life of their own is not new. Matt Ward’s “spiritual liege” stuff hung around for soooo long back in 5th. One line in a WD puff piece run through the echo chamber spawned generations of Ultra hate.

 Nevelon wrote:
40k Memes getting a life of their own is not new. Matt Ward’s “spiritual liege” stuff hung around for soooo long back in 5th. One line in a WD puff piece run through the echo chamber spawned generations of Ultra hate.

Yeah, my observations on social media and YouTube are that with the higher consumption of and quicker dissemination of memes they are becoming a major information source and are being repeated and accepted at a rate far in excess of the past.

Memes spread further than other media and people with very little understanding of 40k will have heard Orks believe real hard and change reality as if it's the truth because it's the only piece of info that escaped the nerd bubble.

They're the social media equivalent of the loudest person being heard, rather than the correct one.

I think I preferred it when memes were about METAL BAWKSES and SINDRIII instead of nonsense about the fluff.

 Hellebore wrote:

Memes spread further than other media and people with very little understanding of 40k will have heard Orks believe real hard and change reality as if it's the truth because it's the only piece of info that escaped the nerd bubble.

Do they? I can't say I partake in much in the way of social media but the stuff that does get pushed my way is usually firmly in my "bubble". Even within the geek/nerd niche what gets recommended is based on what I've searched for/ watched previously.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I think I preferred it when memes were about METAL BAWKSES and SINDRIII instead of nonsense about the fluff.

Even “metal bawkses” was a crappy meme, on account that’s just how boxes sounds in a fairly average, non-descript English accent.

Mind you, I do wonder how many people realise that Great Britain (as in, the single largest isle of Britain, and not a statement about its competence) has a frankly staggering number of accents and dialects in such a comparatively teensy tiny wee bit of land.

I mean, Dear Dakkanaut Not Also From Scotland, did you know Scotland has numerous distinct accents and dialects?

Metal Bawkses was about the bizarrely poor dialoge/voice acting of Soulstorm (bad) and genral scenery chewing (YMMV) of the Dawn of War series gerally rather than the line specifically.

Just like Spiritual Liege wasn't about the one White Dwarf article, but about 5th edition's approach to the Ultramarines more generally.

This. Every single time I played the Imperium in Battle Fleet Gothic, I got the old "Where's the giant gold statue?," from people who didnt really play, but knew enough, to be annoying.

I kinda hate meme culture, leads to so much group think, overplayed jokes and misinformation. Even re things as ultimately insignificant as gaming. But then I'm in my 40's now so I probably am made grumpy by at least 75% more things than a couple of years ago.

 Bosskelot wrote:
40k is incredibly strange in that it's a long running and ongoing IP, so new stuff is being produced for it all the time, and yet all of the fandom in-jokes and memes are from a very specific time period: 2007-2011 /tg/ board on 4chan

It's not so strange honestly.

Most of the internet's memes originate on 4chan before propagating across the broader internet.

A lot of memes, ultimately, go back to the era of 2005-2010ish, when social media started talking off. Much like most stories can be broken down into a narrow list of forms with stylistic differences distinguishing them, even newer memes tend to harken back to older memes from that time.

I think a lot of memes actually enriched the lore of 40k. They showed a side of the universe where where more mundane or comical situations could arise, where it's not all so grim and dark. It gives the setting more width and layers.

Sure it's a lot of junk to sort through until you find good bits, but the same can be said about the gw sancioned lore too.

I think my favorites are the flash gitz animations. Those space hulk videos and the one with that grey knight doom guy were pretty good. And emperor text to speech device had some good moments too.

 Gitdakka wrote:
I think a lot of memes actually enriched the lore of 40k. They showed a side of the universe where where more mundane or comical situations could arise, where it's not all so grim and dark. It gives the setting more width and layers.

Sure it's a lot of junk to sort through until you find good bits, but the same can be said about the gw sancioned lore too.

I think my favorites are the flash gitz animations. Those space hulk videos and the one with that grey knight doom guy were pretty good. And emperor text to speech device had some good moments too.

That's true only if you have a good knowledge base to start from. Then memes are injokes and taken less seriously. But modern pop culture literally communicates in memes and the nuance of an injoke is replaced with the perception of a statement of fact.

It's like satire, if you don't know enough about it to know it's satire, then you're going to miss it and take it straight.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Just like Spiritual Liege wasn't about the one White Dwarf article, but about 5th edition's approach to the Ultramarines more generally.

If you look at how every faction was presented, the way they treated the Ultras was not out of line. Everyone was the best and greatest: in their own book. It was an era of superlatives. We just happened to be the posterboys of the flagship faction, so more of a spotlight on how great the Ultramarines were. It was a couple bad lines, the hipster/rebel desire to hate on the popular, and the memification that ran it out of control.

5th was also one of the best eras for making “your dude” marines. They actively encouraged you to file the names off the special characters and use them in whatever army you wanted. So while the UMs had more named characters, they were really more as examples and templates for you to go crazy with. This became more of an issue when chapter tactics became a wall things were sealed behind in later editions.

 Bosskelot wrote:
40k is incredibly strange in that it's a long running and ongoing IP, so new stuff is being produced for it all the time, and yet all of the fandom in-jokes and memes are from a very specific time period: 2007-2011 /tg/ board on 4chan are where essentially almost all of the jokes originate from and they just haven't really changed since then. I think the only new "joke" that's been produced is Guilliman and Yvraine. I look at other IP's like One Piece, which originally came out in 1997 and is still ongoing (and when you consider how 40k in 1997 was still half-formed and very new the two IP's aren't that dissimilar in age), and the evolution of in-jokes and memes in One Piece is way more dynamic and interesting and more importantly funny.

1d4chan has also done incredible harm to discourse surrounding the IP.

i can't think of a single thing 4chan has touched that came out better for it. all the worst parts of anime fandom can be traced back to 4chan, for example

 Nevelon wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Just like Spiritual Liege wasn't about the one White Dwarf article, but about 5th edition's approach to the Ultramarines more generally.

If you look at how every faction was presented, the way they treated the Ultras was not out of line. Everyone was the best and greatest: in their own book. It was an era of superlatives. We just happened to be the posterboys of the flagship faction, so more of a spotlight on how great the Ultramarines were. It was a couple bad lines, the hipster/rebel desire to hate on the popular, and the memification that ran it out of control.

5th was also one of the best eras for making “your dude” marines. They actively encouraged you to file the names off the special characters and use them in whatever army you wanted. So while the UMs had more named characters, they were really more as examples and templates for you to go crazy with. This became more of an issue when chapter tactics became a wall things were sealed behind in later editions.

The difference is Codex: Space Marines also covers chapters from 5 other primarchs, so having the lore in your own codex say they wish their Primarch was Robute Guilliman instead is a little ‘feels bad’.
And Chapter Tactics was still a come down from the previous edition’s chapter rules which gave you much more freedom and without having to take a specific character.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Just like Spiritual Liege wasn't about the one White Dwarf article, but about 5th edition's approach to the Ultramarines more generally.

If you look at how every faction was presented, the way they treated the Ultras was not out of line. Everyone was the best and greatest: in their own book. It was an era of superlatives. We just happened to be the posterboys of the flagship faction, so more of a spotlight on how great the Ultramarines were. It was a couple bad lines, the hipster/rebel desire to hate on the popular, and the memification that ran it out of control.

5th was also one of the best eras for making “your dude” marines. They actively encouraged you to file the names off the special characters and use them in whatever army you wanted. So while the UMs had more named characters, they were really more as examples and templates for you to go crazy with. This became more of an issue when chapter tactics became a wall things were sealed behind in later editions.

The difference is Codex: Space Marines also covers chapters from 5 other primarchs, so having the lore in your own codex say they wish their Primarch was Robute Guilliman instead is a little ‘feels bad’.
And Chapter Tactics was still a come down from the previous edition’s chapter rules which gave you much more freedom and without having to take a specific character.

IIRC the other lineages wishing RG was their primarch was from the WD, not the codex, but I would need to go back and check. It’s been a while. And yes, that one bit is out of line and I’m pretty sure never made it into people’s headcannon it was so obviously wrong.

4th was peak customization, with the build your own chapter. 5ths way of doing it with named characters was a bit of a step down, but 6-7th were rock bottom. Although arguments could be made for the more recent editions with NMNR. But that’s getting a bit off topic.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
40k is incredibly strange in that it's a long running and ongoing IP, so new stuff is being produced for it all the time, and yet all of the fandom in-jokes and memes are from a very specific time period: 2007-2011 /tg/ board on 4chan are where essentially almost all of the jokes originate from and they just haven't really changed since then. I think the only new "joke" that's been produced is Guilliman and Yvraine. I look at other IP's like One Piece, which originally came out in 1997 and is still ongoing (and when you consider how 40k in 1997 was still half-formed and very new the two IP's aren't that dissimilar in age), and the evolution of in-jokes and memes in One Piece is way more dynamic and interesting and more importantly funny.

1d4chan has also done incredible harm to discourse surrounding the IP.

i can't think of a single thing 4chan has touched that came out better for it. all the worst parts of anime fandom the internet can be traced back to 4chan, for example

Fixed that for you.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
i can't think of a single thing 4chan has touched that came out better for it. all the worst parts of anime fandom can be traced back to 4chan, for example

While I agree with your first point, I do question your premise regarding the second part - I'm pretty sure there aren't any good parts of anime fandom.

The so called "meme culture" has basically eradicated any discussion concerning 40K's background material in my experience. Whenever there is a talk, or a quote, or a mention of someone or something happening in-universe, there's at least one person who immediately bursts into memespeak and completely derails the conversation, like it's some sort of vile possession. Come to think of it, I suppose it's not unique to 40K but it's very prevalent there.

Memes are like sound bites or click bait, at the very least misleading if not outright incorrect - but that is often deliberate as part of a joke for those in the know.

When they're the only information people receive on something they don't have the knowledge base to weigh its value.

Being reliant on humour makes them more effective.