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Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Cynista wrote:
So your defence here is "ohh well everything else is OP and needs to be nerfed so it doesn't count". Lol sorry pal but it does count and they won't get nerfed. How about we just buff our stuff instead, eh?

A smash captain is objectively better than a D.Lord and is easily worth 40 more points. Even just the 3++ by itself is worth 10-15 points. Yet they cost pretty much the same currently.

CCB and Lord Disco are absolutely comparable regardless of one being over 10 wounds because it's still hard to kill. They have similar battlefield roles, both are a lord riding what is effectively a chariot. But one is again just objectively better in every way. You prefer to compare it to a Demon Prince but then go on to admit that the DP is just better than a CCB. Other than "other stuff should be nerfed" what's your point here? Demon Princes don't need to be nerfed. That is a slippery road my friend, if they are too cheap then so are three quarters of HQ's in the game. Better to just bring Necrons in line than the opposite.

Note that I said Tech Priest Enginseer not Dominus, which is 30 points and has a very similar statline and battlefield role to a Cryptek (and is actually better in combat) at a third of the cost. Please read properly before you get sarcy

The only insanity here is you claiming a 10-15 point drop for our HQ's would make them as good as their counterparts

"unless you want to centre balance around the very tippy top of competitive play and never nerf anything ever again."
Read what I write. If you buff every unit that is worse than the top 5% of units then you will overbuff units and some units will once again compose the new top 5% of units, you create a new round of buffs for the bottom 95% of units to match the new level. There is no end to this way of creating balance, it creates the problem of power creep, with pts being worth less and less as you continually buff every unit.

To avoid power creep and make pts worth a similar amount of value across factions and time you buff the bottom 20% and aim for them to make up the new bottom 40%, nerf the top 10% so they go down to the top 30%. You will never be happy if your only metric of success is whether our bad units become broken. Daemon Princes not needing to be nerfed sounds silly to me, why were people taking 6 or 9 of them if they were not broken? You view of which things are balanced is totally off and comparing a 12 wound character to an 8 wound character is like comparing apples to oranges, sure, we can compare Rhinos and Ghost Arks, but they are hugely different and therefore difficult to compare. A Destroyer Lord for example is 140% more durable when it comes to AP- S3 attacks compared to a Smash Captain, keep living in your dream world where all your HQs are 100% overcosted and applaud your opponents for playing their fair and balanced Dawneagle trio.
   
Made in se
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm



Stockholm

There is a very significant aspect of necron HQs that I don't believe you're taking into account, and this is the fact that our auras only affect infantry.

This makes, for instance, a lord massively less versatile and effective than a lieutenant. If I could place a lord next to my DDAs to grant them re-rolls it would be an absolutely fine HQ choice, but I can't. Likewise, an overlord can't grant MWBD on tomb blades or doom scythes, and this fact along with the general abysmal 3" ranges we have make our HQs turbo gak, when compared to almost everything else in the game.

I think MWBD affecting everything in range is totally fair, since the overlord is already too expensive for what he does and it can only affect infantry anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Besides, just points adjustments won't make the necron codex well-written and balanced

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/28 19:17:25


---- +++ ----

My mother was a woman

---- +++ ---- 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Cynista wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
It’s really interesting how much more we can fit into lists since CA2018.

Still not enough compared to how much other factions can field for the same points.

I think if all of our HQ's cost were reduced by 50%, as well as the units that weren't touched in CA, then it could be interesting.


Tbh, I'd be more or less okay with the current price of an overlord if MWBD was a normal aura that affected every unit within 6". And maybe give them a 4th melee attack


It's strange because I feel like the opposite is needed. I think the necron HQ's encourage more thought, well at least the overlords ability, maybe not the others. I actually think everyone elses HQ's need to be more like orders and not just passive bubbles. It takes way more skill when you need to determine who gets the perk for the turn rather then everything within range of Gulliman is 200% more efficient and I didn't even need to make a decision.

   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

 vict0988 wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
What are the reasons pros/cons/ math to mix saves on Tomb Blades to get a 3+/5++

I can see running a unit of 9, maybe 5 with shieldvanes for 3+; and the other 4 at a 4+/5++

You can pick and choose how to allocate wounds, much Like IG does with Bullgryns on ther 2+/4++

The benefit of these upgrades are increased survivability, this only matters when you get shot, if it makes the difference between RP and no RP, then it's very worth it. The downside is the loss of firepower in relation to the pts spent on the unit.

...

Let's say you have that unit with 5 3+ and 4 4+/5++ at best you will multiply the durability per point invested of the 5 with 3+ by 1,35 and the 4 with 4+/5++ by 1,27 so 1,31 on average. Your opponent will have spent 32% more firepower than he would have on the same number of pts worth of basic TBs.


Thats a very detail response. And I think i follow it, but perhaps not. This line is what confuses me. Here it looks like a 5/4 split with 3+ & 4+/5++ is shown to increase the amount of Firepower the enemy has to commit by a third (32%). How is that not making it more survivable?
I ask, because I do this with bullgryns on the 2+/4++; Is it because the additional save? The toughness of the unit? Point cost per model?
With shieldvanes at 3 pts, thats 15 extra points. Shadowloom at 5 points, that 20 points.

So for the cost of essentially 1 tomb blade (35 points total) you are getting an increase survivalibilty of 33% to the unit of 9. That seems good to me.

What am I missing? Why are you saying it isn't good?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
There is a very significant aspect of necron HQs that I don't believe you're taking into account, and this is the fact that our auras only affect infantry.

This makes, for instance, a lord massively less versatile and effective than a lieutenant. If I could place a lord next to my DDAs to grant them re-rolls it would be an absolutely fine HQ choice, but I can't. Likewise, an overlord can't grant MWBD on tomb blades or doom scythes, and this fact along with the general abysmal 3" ranges we have make our HQs turbo gak, when compared to almost everything else in the game.

I think MWBD affecting everything in range is totally fair, since the overlord is already too expensive for what he does and it can only affect infantry anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Besides, just points adjustments won't make the necron codex well-written and balanced


Agreed.

6" Range.
Imotekh needs to buff warrior and immortals as well. Even if they have to raise his points. He needs to have a bigger and better aura. He is our Bobby G equivelent. I would like the named dynasty removed and just mad <Dynasty> as well.
Praetorians need DYNASTY keyword.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/28 20:26:45


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Made in ro
Irked Necron Immortal




I agree with the sentiment that it's everyone else that needs toning down, rather than Necrons that need buffing up. In theory.

But it's much easier to buff the power of one book than nerf everyone else, so yeah, our HQs need to come down in points and be better.
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 Dynas wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
What are the reasons pros/cons/ math to mix saves on Tomb Blades to get a 3+/5++

I can see running a unit of 9, maybe 5 with shieldvanes for 3+; and the other 4 at a 4+/5++

You can pick and choose how to allocate wounds, much Like IG does with Bullgryns on ther 2+/4++

The benefit of these upgrades are increased survivability, this only matters when you get shot, if it makes the difference between RP and no RP, then it's very worth it. The downside is the loss of firepower in relation to the pts spent on the unit.

...

Let's say you have that unit with 5 3+ and 4 4+/5++ at best you will multiply the durability per point invested of the 5 with 3+ by 1,35 and the 4 with 4+/5++ by 1,27 so 1,31 on average. Your opponent will have spent 32% more firepower than he would have on the same number of pts worth of basic TBs.


Thats a very detail response. And I think i follow it, but perhaps not. This line is what confuses me. Here it looks like a 5/4 split with 3+ & 4+/5++ is shown to increase the amount of Firepower the enemy has to commit by a third (32%). How is that not making it more survivable?
I ask, because I do this with bullgryns on the 2+/4++; Is it because the additional save? The toughness of the unit? Point cost per model?
With shieldvanes at 3 pts, thats 15 extra points. Shadowloom at 5 points, that 20 points.

So for the cost of essentially 1 tomb blade (35 points total) you are getting an increase survivalibilty of 33% to the unit of 9. That seems good to me.

What am I missing? Why are you saying it isn't good?

It's only good when your opponent is mixing firepower between AP-3 and AP-, Bullgryns don't have a third option I can recommend. IMO you are losing out on too much firepower in return for your increase in durability given that it only increases your durability per point invested around 8% if your opponent isn't mixing up the AP values of units that shoot at your TBs, while you lose more than 8% worth of firepower from the unit having fewer models. That's why I say stick with shields and put a couple of naked ones in there, at least if your opponent isn't throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them, you will in my estimation be better off with more firepower given the unit is fairly durable regardless of upgrades just because of their -1 to hit at range.

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
There is a very significant aspect of necron HQs that I don't believe you're taking into account, and this is the fact that our auras only affect infantry.

This makes, for instance, a lord massively less versatile and effective than a lieutenant. If I could place a lord next to my DDAs to grant them re-rolls it would be an absolutely fine HQ choice, but I can't. Likewise, an overlord can't grant MWBD on tomb blades or doom scythes, and this fact along with the general abysmal 3" ranges we have make our HQs turbo gak, when compared to almost everything else in the game.

I think MWBD affecting everything in range is totally fair, since the overlord is already too expensive for what he does and it can only affect infantry anyway

Besides, just points adjustments won't make the necron codex well-written and balanced

Marine vehicles don't have Chapter Tactics and they are generally pretty bad, in my world that isn't ideal but it does make SM more reliant on their HQ castles to be worth anything while our vehicles generally do fine on their own. Tau Empire Cadre Fireblades don't affect many different types of units, Harlequin Shadowseers only affect Infantry, Chaos Daemons of Nurgle Poxbringers, Sloppity Bilepipers and Spoilpox Scriverners are all severely limited by the units they can buff. All these units are good and have powerful limits on what they can do. Tau Empire Commanders can only collectively use their command ability once per game, yes it does affect vehicles, but it's still only once per game even if you have 3 Commanders, which you probably do.

I have good news Lords' and Overlords' abilities have 6" range and CCBs 12". The only 3" model we have is the Cryptek and Apothecaries have the exact same range. I have also described earlier how you can cheat this range by having a unit within 6", roll Reanimation one at a time and when you pass the first one you place that model at the edge of coherency just within 3" of your Cryptek, now the rest of your rolls are made on 4+, on average you waste very few Reanimation rolls doing this, especially if you have a Ghost Ark/Resurrection Orb to pick up stragglers.

Points will absolutely balance anything, whether their fair cost lies at 30%, 50%, 80% or 150% of their current cost there is a balanced cost for everything, especially given that you don't need to get things 100% right, just right enough that every datasheet and option has situations where it shines. I've said before that I don't like the way the Necron index and codex were written, but things are what they are and the Codex is much better compared to the Index, at least the Lord does something other than effectively just adding +1 to Ld, not to mention Lords and many of our gakky Unique HQs got buffs in CA2018.

The fact that I've seen ten times the number of Company Commanders compared to Platoon Commanders on the battlefield this edition is sad, given the fact that they used to out outnumber Company Commanders 3/1. I read a thread yesterday where someone was seriously suggesting adding a Platoon Commander to the game, I imagine he hasn't played the one game I have against Platoon Commanders. Clearly, there are a handful of HQs that are either flying rodent gak insane with how much value they add (Company Commander) or are so strong in shooting or melee that they don't even need their support abilities to be good (Tau Commanders and Daemon Princes) that need to get taken down a peg, if you measure your HQs to these units you lose. I don't need my CCBs to be Lord Discordants on Helstalkers, I played that edition, where two Crypteks took down a Land Raider in a shooting phase and CCBs where among the top units in the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/29 06:29:39


 
   
Made in se
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm



Stockholm

 vict0988 wrote:


Marine vehicles don't have Chapter Tactics and they are generally pretty bad, in my world that isn't ideal but it does make SM more reliant on their HQ castles to be worth anything while our vehicles generally do fine on their own. Tau Empire Cadre Fireblades don't affect many different types of units, Harlequin Shadowseers only affect Infantry, Chaos Daemons of Nurgle Poxbringers, Sloppity Bilepipers and Spoilpox Scriverners are all severely limited by the units they can buff. All these units are good and have powerful limits on what they can do. Tau Empire Commanders can only collectively use their command ability once per game, yes it does affect vehicles, but it's still only once per game even if you have 3 Commanders, which you probably do.

I have good news Lords' and Overlords' abilities have 6" range and CCBs 12". The only 3" model we have is the Cryptek and Apothecaries have the exact same range. I have also described earlier how you can cheat this range by having a unit within 6", roll Reanimation one at a time and when you pass the first one you place that model at the edge of coherency just within 3" of your Cryptek, now the rest of your rolls are made on 4+, on average you waste very few Reanimation rolls doing this, especially if you have a Ghost Ark/Resurrection Orb to pick up stragglers.

Points will absolutely balance anything, whether their fair cost lies at 30%, 50%, 80% or 150% of their current cost there is a balanced cost for everything, especially given that you don't need to get things 100% right, just right enough that every datasheet and option has situations where it shines. I've said before that I don't like the way the Necron index and codex were written, but things are what they are and the Codex is much better compared to the Index, at least the Lord does something other than effectively just adding +1 to Ld, not to mention Lords and many of our gakky Unique HQs got buffs in CA2018.

The fact that I've seen ten times the number of Company Commanders compared to Platoon Commanders on the battlefield this edition is sad, given the fact that they used to out outnumber Company Commanders 3/1. I read a thread yesterday where someone was seriously suggesting adding a Platoon Commander to the game, I imagine he hasn't played the one game I have against Platoon Commanders. Clearly, there are a handful of HQs that are either flying rodent gak insane with how much value they add (Company Commander) or are so strong in shooting or melee that they don't even need their support abilities to be good (Tau Commanders and Daemon Princes) that need to get taken down a peg, if you measure your HQs to these units you lose. I don't need my CCBs to be Lord Discordants on Helstalkers, I played that edition, where two Crypteks took down a Land Raider in a shooting phase and CCBs where among the top units in the game.


Except Fireblades, Shadowseers and the daemon characters are expressly specialised to buff the particular units they buff, whereas our characters are not.
The fact that T'au commanders can only enact their command ability once per game is balanced out quite well by the fact that they are an otherwise exceptional unit that can pull its weight through the damage it can deal on its own, whereas our characters, once again, can not.

The Overlord is so tremendously unbalanced that his aura is exceptionally strong, but only if it's used on timmortals. On any other unit it is about on par with that of a captain, except for the fact that he can only buff a single unit. Since you have to take HQs in a battleforged list, this almost forces you to play tesla+OL because it's so vastly superior to any other configuration of HQ+troop. This is a fundamentally flawed character, that tbh won't be well-balanced no matter his points since he creates a mandatory core for an army. Points changes can make him very good, but can't make him balanced. If they put MWBD on Lords then it would at least be fluffy, I agree with you there.

Points don't solve rules issues.

---- +++ ----

My mother was a woman

---- +++ ---- 
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
Except Fireblades, Shadowseers and the daemon characters are expressly specialised to buff the particular units they buff, whereas our characters are not.
The fact that T'au commanders can only enact their command ability once per game is balanced out quite well by the fact that they are an otherwise exceptional unit that can pull its weight through the damage it can deal on its own, whereas our characters, once again, can not.

The Overlord is so tremendously unbalanced that his aura is exceptionally strong, but only if it's used on timmortals. On any other unit it is about on par with that of a captain, except for the fact that he can only buff a single unit. Since you have to take HQs in a battleforged list, this almost forces you to play tesla+OL because it's so vastly superior to any other configuration of HQ+troop. This is a fundamentally flawed character, that tbh won't be well-balanced no matter his points since he creates a mandatory core for an army. Points changes can make him very good, but can't make him balanced. If they put MWBD on Lords then it would at least be fluffy, I agree with you there.

Points don't solve rules issues.

I think Necron HQs are the same way, the writer of Index Necrons wanted to move Necrons away from the heavily mechanized route Matt Ward took the Necrons and back to their roots of Lords and Warriors. That's why our HQs buff only Infantry, by forcing us to take at least 1 HQ (unless you just take 4 LoW the rules writer is incentivising us to take Infantry in our lists, I think this is further pushed by Ghost Arks not being open-topped, an idea I also had, the writer pushed Necrons away from CCBs and Warriors in Ghost Arks to Warriors on the field, supported by CCBs and Ghost Arks behind them. I personally vastly prefer the 2x20 Warriors+10 Teslamortals list supported by a GA, CCB and a Cryptek to what used to be 1xCCB, 3x GA and 3x10 Warriors that you hoped never saw the light of day.

The answer is to make tesla carbines more expensive on Immortals than on TBs, something GW has done with for example Thunderwolf Cavalry and Stormshields. This way it becomes so that Warriors and Gauss Immortals are a fair choice and can be taken with or without an Overlord and be decent and Tesla Immortals are bad on their own but good with an Overlord. This would be the best way to open up the most possible avenues of list building with pts. It's a problem of combos and it's not really something you can get rid of.

The same can be said with transports, you cannot make a transport equally viable for an elite unit and a chaff unit, protecting elite units is more valuable than protecting chaff. The only exception to this rule I can think of is the Astra Militarum Chimera which benefits from having a chaff unit embarked. SM Assault Squads without jump packs benefit less from being inside a Stormraven Gunship than Vanguard Veterans without jump packs for example. So if you want Stormraven Gunships carrying Assault Squads to be viable, then Vanguard Veterans inside Stormraven Gunships will either be OP or Vanguard Veterans outside Stormraven Gunships will be UP. I actually think it would be very fluffy if the Lord had MWBD because Lords in the fluff like to surround themselves with Immortals so I could totally see them benefitting Tesla Immortals disproportionately as being fluffy.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I agree with what others are saying here, as well as some possible points adjustments I would like to see the following 2 changes:

1) Lords given the single unit MWBD instead of to wound aura and Overlords given a range aura of some kind
2) Gauss given its special rule back in the form of a 6 to wound becomes a mortal wound (not in addition like deathmarks) maybe improving or reducing deathmarks cost in some other way

Also a stratagem added to allow rp for a unit that has been wiped out - this would fully or near enough solve the rp issue
   
Made in ca
Irked Necron Immortal




Aren’t we posting well in tournaments now, though? Alamo, etc.?
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






sieGermans wrote:
Aren’t we posting well in tournaments now, though? Alamo, etc.?

Not because of our HQs, except maybe Imotekh.
   
Made in se
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm



Stockholm

If their intent was to move away from mechanised lists they handled that very poorly by not making an iteration of the gauss rule in 8th. That was the backbone of the necron army that really made silver tide work. DDAs or Doom Scythes are essentially mandatory now, in any list.

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My mother was a woman

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I managed 4 wins out of 5 games at last weekend's Northern UK ETC 2 day team event. There wasn't actually a limit of 1 type of each detachment so this was the first tournament where I decided to ditch the battalion altogether. I have to say it worked great, I could really focus on taking the best units possible. This was the first time I've ran Tomb Blades in tournament and I thought they were excellent, pretty much all of our Fast Attack choices are really good. I think it's quite easy to play the army with a budget amount of CP, next tournament in August is ITC so I'll be running Air Wing and ditching the battalion again. For the first time in a while there was actually another necron player in the field as well. I think he also did okay so we're slowly starting to represent again


Spoiler:


== Spearhead Detachment ==
Dynasty: Sautekh [640pts]

HQ 1: Imotekh the Stormlord, Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) [160pts]
HS1: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS2: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS3: Doomsday Ark [160pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [451pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Canoptek Cloak (5pts), Staff of Light (10pts) [85pts]
FA1: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA2: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA3: Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith (288), 6x Vicious Claws (0) [288pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [909pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Chronometron (15pts), Staff of Light (10pts), Relic (Veil of Darkness) [95pts]
FA1: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA2: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA3: Tomb Blades: 7x Tomb Blades (98), 6x Shieldvanes (18), 14x Gauss Blaster (98) [214pts]

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++


   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




listylist88 wrote:
I managed 4 wins out of 5 games at last weekend's Northern UK ETC 2 day team event. There wasn't actually a limit of 1 type of each detachment so this was the first tournament where I decided to ditch the battalion altogether. I have to say it worked great, I could really focus on taking the best units possible. This was the first time I've ran Tomb Blades in tournament and I thought they were excellent, pretty much all of our Fast Attack choices are really good. I think it's quite easy to play the army with a budget amount of CP, next tournament in August is ITC so I'll be running Air Wing and ditching the battalion again. For the first time in a while there was actually another necron player in the field as well. I think he also did okay so we're slowly starting to represent again


Spoiler:


== Spearhead Detachment ==
Dynasty: Sautekh [640pts]

HQ 1: Imotekh the Stormlord, Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) [160pts]
HS1: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS2: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS3: Doomsday Ark [160pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [451pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Canoptek Cloak (5pts), Staff of Light (10pts) [85pts]
FA1: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA2: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA3: Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith (288), 6x Vicious Claws (0) [288pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [909pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Chronometron (15pts), Staff of Light (10pts), Relic (Veil of Darkness) [95pts]
FA1: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA2: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA3: Tomb Blades: 7x Tomb Blades (98), 6x Shieldvanes (18), 14x Gauss Blaster (98) [214pts]

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++




List looks great, but I have to ask, why Imotekh? Other than his storm (and the extra CP), you can't really benefit from his other abilities. Seems like you could cut him down to an overlord/lord and fit a couple more tomb blades in. I guess the storm and CP could be worth the trade off though.

P.s. what did you face?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/01 12:05:02


 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





It's also worth it noting that when you MWBD your destroyers you deteriorate the hit rate ever so slightly with Extermination Protocols as you will reroll some of those hits into misses.
(2s are misses before modifiers and would trigger a reroll, which sometimes give you a one.)

It happens to fractions of a dice each time, and there is an overwhelming net gain due to the rerolls to wound, but worth making a mental note of, as it's easily forgotten.

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






listylist88 wrote:
I managed 4 wins out of 5 games at last weekend's Northern UK ETC 2 day team event.
Spoiler:


== Spearhead Detachment ==
Dynasty: Sautekh [640pts]

HQ 1: Imotekh the Stormlord, Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) [160pts]
HS1: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS2: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS3: Doomsday Ark [160pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [451pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Canoptek Cloak (5pts), Staff of Light (10pts) [85pts]
FA1: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA2: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA3: Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith (288), 6x Vicious Claws (0) [288pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [909pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Chronometron (15pts), Staff of Light (10pts), Relic (Veil of Darkness) [95pts]
FA1: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA2: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA3: Tomb Blades: 7x Tomb Blades (98), 6x Shieldvanes (18), 14x Gauss Blaster (98) [214pts]

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++



Did you factor the ETC missions into your list? Why do you feel like Teslamortals underperform for their pts? Do you get tied up in combat often?

Consider one of the following:
*Cut Imotekh and re-organize your list into a Nihilakh Spearhead and a Nephrekh Outrider. You get less CP, no Storm, no MWBD on Destroyers. Instead you get Nihilakh on DDAs which I'd argue is better than Sautekh and you get 160 pts.
*Change the second Outrider to Sautekh. No Deep Striking Destroyers, but you can Advance and shoot, not to mention trigger or benefit from Methodical Destruction. The Sautekh Cryptek would also be able to baby-sit 1-3 DDAs depending on deployment.
*Cut Wraiths, Scarabs and a Cryptek and re-organize your list into a Sautekh Battalion with Teslamortals like everybody else.

I think something like 3xDDA, Doom-Wing, 1-3xDestroyers sounds pretty good. Alternatively, instead of Destroyers consider a Tesseract Vault, someone came in third at a big tournament recently with 3xDDA, the Doom-Wing and a Vault. Not putting in the pts for a Battalion and the Deceiver to power up and protect a Vault seems like a mistake now that it is so expensive though, taking a Vault seems like a mistake in the first place, I especially don't really see the benefit of pairing it with the Doom-Wing. You should be seeing diminishing returns on your aura damage effects. If you kill a couple of units in a castle in the Movement phase with your Vault you should see less damage coming out of the Doom-Wing Stratagem. Seeing the Vault have success again is kind of nice, I thought for sure it'd be dead competitively, I guess it was before the nerf to the Castellan.

torblind wrote:
It's also worth it noting that when you MWBD your destroyers you deteriorate the hit rate ever so slightly with Extermination Protocols as you will reroll some of those hits into misses.
(2s are misses before modifiers and would trigger a reroll, which sometimes give you a one.)

It happens to fractions of a dice each time, and there is an overwhelming net gain due to the rerolls to wound, but worth making a mental note of, as it's easily forgotten.

2+ re-rolling 1s and 2s is better than 2+. But I never knew I had to re-roll those 2s, good to keep in mind.

3+ is 24/36
2+ is 30/36
3+ re-rolling 1s is 28/36
3+ re-rolling 1s and 2s is 32/36
2+ re-rolling 1s is 35/36
2+ re-rolling 1s and 2s is 34/36

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/07/01 14:35:33


 
   
Made in se
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm



Stockholm

torblind wrote:
It's also worth it noting that when you MWBD your destroyers you deteriorate the hit rate ever so slightly with Extermination Protocols as you will reroll some of those hits into misses.
(2s are misses before modifiers and would trigger a reroll, which sometimes give you a one.)

It happens to fractions of a dice each time, and there is an overwhelming net gain due to the rerolls to wound, but worth making a mental note of, as it's easily forgotten.


Do you have to reroll all failed hit rolls if you have an ability that grants rerolls? I feel like I remember this being mentioned in an faq at some point, but can't remember how it was ruled

---- +++ ----

My mother was a woman

---- +++ ---- 
   
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Germany

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
torblind wrote:
It's also worth it noting that when you MWBD your destroyers you deteriorate the hit rate ever so slightly with Extermination Protocols as you will reroll some of those hits into misses.
(2s are misses before modifiers and would trigger a reroll, which sometimes give you a one.)

It happens to fractions of a dice each time, and there is an overwhelming net gain due to the rerolls to wound, but worth making a mental note of, as it's easily forgotten.


Do you have to reroll all failed hit rolls if you have an ability that grants rerolls? I feel like I remember this being mentioned in an faq at some point, but can't remember how it was ruled


In case of EP you have no choice. It doesnt say you can, like similiar abilities, e.g. novokhs dynasty code says you can re-roll failed hit rolls. EP says you re-roll failed hit and wound rolls.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 vict0988 wrote:
Cynista wrote:
So your defence here is "ohh well everything else is OP and needs to be nerfed so it doesn't count". Lol sorry pal but it does count and they won't get nerfed. How about we just buff our stuff instead, eh?

A smash captain is objectively better than a D.Lord and is easily worth 40 more points. Even just the 3++ by itself is worth 10-15 points. Yet they cost pretty much the same currently.

CCB and Lord Disco are absolutely comparable regardless of one being over 10 wounds because it's still hard to kill. They have similar battlefield roles, both are a lord riding what is effectively a chariot. But one is again just objectively better in every way. You prefer to compare it to a Demon Prince but then go on to admit that the DP is just better than a CCB. Other than "other stuff should be nerfed" what's your point here? Demon Princes don't need to be nerfed. That is a slippery road my friend, if they are too cheap then so are three quarters of HQ's in the game. Better to just bring Necrons in line than the opposite.

Note that I said Tech Priest Enginseer not Dominus, which is 30 points and has a very similar statline and battlefield role to a Cryptek (and is actually better in combat) at a third of the cost. Please read properly before you get sarcy

The only insanity here is you claiming a 10-15 point drop for our HQ's would make them as good as their counterparts

"unless you want to centre balance around the very tippy top of competitive play and never nerf anything ever again."
Read what I write. If you buff every unit that is worse than the top 5% of units then you will overbuff units and some units will once again compose the new top 5% of units, you create a new round of buffs for the bottom 95% of units to match the new level. There is no end to this way of creating balance, it creates the problem of power creep, with pts being worth less and less as you continually buff every unit.

To avoid power creep and make pts worth a similar amount of value across factions and time you buff the bottom 20% and aim for them to make up the new bottom 40%, nerf the top 10% so they go down to the top 30%. You will never be happy if your only metric of success is whether our bad units become broken. Daemon Princes not needing to be nerfed sounds silly to me, why were people taking 6 or 9 of them if they were not broken? You view of which things are balanced is totally off and comparing a 12 wound character to an 8 wound character is like comparing apples to oranges, sure, we can compare Rhinos and Ghost Arks, but they are hugely different and therefore difficult to compare. A Destroyer Lord for example is 140% more durable when it comes to AP- S3 attacks compared to a Smash Captain, keep living in your dream world where all your HQs are 100% overcosted and applaud your opponents for playing their fair and balanced Dawneagle trio.

You keep posting yet still haven't once made a solid argument, you're just creating strawmen.

It's not just the "top 5%" of units that are miles better than our HQ's in terms of being cost effective. Literally every other HQ in the game is more cost effective than, say, a Cryptek. I gave you the example of the Tech Priest Enginseer which only costs 30 points and is very similar to a Cryptek. Guess what? It's nowhere near a top tier character. In fact, almost nobody uses it.

A smash captain is only a top tier wrecking ball when you make him your warlord, give him a relic and spend a ton of CP on him. If you don't do all that you are left with a good but reasonably priced character - not the OP death machine in every list that you paint him to be

But hey keep thinking that everyone else is the problem if it makes you feel better I guess

IanVanCheese wrote:
I agree with the sentiment that it's everyone else that needs toning down, rather than Necrons that need buffing up. In theory.

But it's much easier to buff the power of one book than nerf everyone else, so yeah, our HQs need to come down in points and be better.

This is literally the crux of it. When you look around and almost every other faction has its HQ's as the mvp's, what do you do; nerf upwards of 30 individual powerful datasheets across multiple ranges, or simply buff the datasheets from the one struggling faction? I know which is easier and which I'd do.

So maybe HeroHammer is exactly what GW intended. The only army without the necessary tools are Necrons
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 vict0988 wrote:

torblind wrote:
It's also worth it noting that when you MWBD your destroyers you deteriorate the hit rate ever so slightly with Extermination Protocols as you will reroll some of those hits into misses.
(2s are misses before modifiers and would trigger a reroll, which sometimes give you a one.)

It happens to fractions of a dice each time, and there is an overwhelming net gain due to the rerolls to wound, but worth making a mental note of, as it's easily forgotten.

2+ re-rolling 1s and 2s is better than 2+. But I never knew I had to re-roll those 2s, good to keep in mind.



Remember, for Destroyers the alternative is 2+ rerolling 1s, not plain 2+.

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in au
Freaky Flayed One



Sydney, Australia

Will we discuss the apocalypse rules / data sheets here, or is there a separate section of dakka dakka for apocalypse?
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

Cynista wrote:

A smash captain is only a top tier wrecking ball when you make him your warlord, give him a relic and spend a ton of CP on him. If you don't do all that you are left with a good but reasonably priced character - not the OP death machine in every list that you paint him to be


Not true. People play multiple smash captains, because they are glass cannons. His warlord trait is only one of many buffs.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
Cynista wrote:

A smash captain is only a top tier wrecking ball when you make him your warlord, give him a relic and spend a ton of CP on him. If you don't do all that you are left with a good but reasonably priced character - not the OP death machine in every list that you paint him to be


Not true. People play multiple smash captains, because they are glass cannons. His warlord trait is only one of many buffs.

I didn't say some people don't play multiple smash captains. But only the one with all the tacked-on advantages that I stated is a killing machine.
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

It's not the best idea to put all eggs in one basket. It makes more sense to give one smash captain angels wings, another gets the hammer of baal, and a third one gets a warlord trait.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




IanVanCheese wrote:
listylist88 wrote:
I managed 4 wins out of 5 games at last weekend's Northern UK ETC 2 day team event. There wasn't actually a limit of 1 type of each detachment so this was the first tournament where I decided to ditch the battalion altogether. I have to say it worked great, I could really focus on taking the best units possible. This was the first time I've ran Tomb Blades in tournament and I thought they were excellent, pretty much all of our Fast Attack choices are really good. I think it's quite easy to play the army with a budget amount of CP, next tournament in August is ITC so I'll be running Air Wing and ditching the battalion again. For the first time in a while there was actually another necron player in the field as well. I think he also did okay so we're slowly starting to represent again


Spoiler:


== Spearhead Detachment ==
Dynasty: Sautekh [640pts]

HQ 1: Imotekh the Stormlord, Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) [160pts]
HS1: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS2: Doomsday Ark [160pts]
HS3: Doomsday Ark [160pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [451pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Canoptek Cloak (5pts), Staff of Light (10pts) [85pts]
FA1: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA2: Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm (39), 3x Feeder Mandibles (0) [39pts]
FA3: Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith (288), 6x Vicious Claws (0) [288pts]

== Outrider Detachment ==
Dynasty: Nephrekh [909pts]

HQ 1: Cryptek (70pts): Chronometron (15pts), Staff of Light (10pts), Relic (Veil of Darkness) [95pts]
FA1: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA2: Destroyers: 6x Destroyer (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120) [300pts]
FA3: Tomb Blades: 7x Tomb Blades (98), 6x Shieldvanes (18), 14x Gauss Blaster (98) [214pts]

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++




List looks great, but I have to ask, why Imotekh? Other than his storm (and the extra CP), you can't really benefit from his other abilities. Seems like you could cut him down to an overlord/lord and fit a couple more tomb blades in. I guess the storm and CP could be worth the trade off though.

P.s. what did you face?


I had my reservations about Imotekh as well but after 10 games or so I've got no plans to swap him out. As you mentioned Call the Storm and +1 CP are good benefits especially because I don't build lists with a lot of CP. His shooting attack and survivability are also reasonable. He MWBDs the Nephrekh destroyers so that's something. Overlords do f-all apart from MWBD and for someone who isn't using troops like me the Overlord is just tax-crap. If I switched to a Nihilakh spearhead instead I would probably use a Canoptek Cryptek to at least get the D3 heal but I doubt it.

==

It's important to mention I luckily managed to avoid some of the more extreme gimmick lists which were popular at the event. There were a lot of 7+ flyer Eldar lists or 200+ model horde lists which I never ran into.

I think Necrons are still viewed as somewhat of a soft-touch so perhaps that helped in the match-ups I got. That said, I would've actually liked to go toe-to-toe with the flyer stuff but my opponents always declined the match-up in the team selection and I was matched with someone else. If anyone's ever played ETC team format you'll be familiar with how it works.

1st Game was a Tau double Riptide and double Broadside build. Destroyers ruin Broadsides and Call The Storm was useful against his castle. Close game though, the 3++ Riptide ability is actually stupid!?!? They pretty much did whatever they wanted all game. Glad it ended on Turn 5 as he was in the ascendancy but he couldn't catch my point tally in time. Close Win, v happy he was a good player.

2nd Game was against Cadia mass Tank Commander + Pask + Assassins. Just kill the flat 3 damage Emperor's Fist battle Cannon and this game would've been very winnable but I learned my lesson for next time and enjoyed it. I made far too many mistakes, this match-up should actually have been quite straight-forward for Necron but fair play to my opponent. Close Loss.

3rd Game was a gimmick mass drop pod (?) + assassins and blood angel smash captain list. Needless to say it was an interesting experience. It was a strange game but I pulled too far ahead on kill points and got a close-ish/good win.

4th Game Blood Angel with Centurions and Aggressors castle and Smash Captains + Assassins. It was Destroyers vs elite infantry and Centurion lascannons vs Quantum Shielding. He conceded turn 3. Heavy Win.

5th Game was Deathwatch, despite the result I thought this list was the most brutal, he'd won all his previous 4 and I could see why. He chose Fast Attack (obviously) as the Mission tactic and his veterans shredded pretty much anything except the DDAs with ease. He killed 3 Wraiths on overwatch alone. Even mass storm shield can't withstand extermination protocols though and the tomb blades Str5 weight of fire also kicked-ass. Close win.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [76 PL, 7CP, 1,187pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Dynastic Heirlooms [-1CP]: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 192pts]
. 4x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [48 PL, 1CP, 808pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nihilakh

+ HQ +

Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Total: [124 PL, 8CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

v0iddrgn wrote:

I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.


Which doesnt matter, because the knight player can ignore damage for 1CP.
   
Made in us
Numberless Necron Warrior




Yeah our boy Storm Lord keeps in my lists beacuse of the storm and extra CP. His Storm means that even on turn one way out of range he can do SOMETHING other than just My Will Be Done like other OLords. That is a lot of points for just MWBD most of the game. This is another reason I have started to shy away from Crypteks if someone decides to go after something else besides my Immortals he as dead weight. So min costed Lord seems to be a better use of points for me.
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





v0iddrgn wrote:
Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [76 PL, 7CP, 1,187pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Dynastic Heirlooms [-1CP]: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 192pts]
. 4x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [48 PL, 1CP, 808pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nihilakh

+ HQ +

Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Total: [124 PL, 8CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.


So you keep the lord back there with them then?

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

torblind wrote:
v0iddrgn wrote:
Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [76 PL, 7CP, 1,187pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Dynastic Heirlooms [-1CP]: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 192pts]
. 4x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [48 PL, 1CP, 808pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nihilakh

+ HQ +

Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Total: [124 PL, 8CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.


So you keep the lord back there with them then?

Yes, he provides rerolling 1's to wound PLUS backfield counter assault AND he's cheaper than a Cryptek. I've flirted with running a Cloaktek with the TB's instead but I'd rather get the 50% buff to wound rather than a 17% buff for RP.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/03 14:28:12


 
   
 
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