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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Amishprn86 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The only other data point I can provide either way for this (and maybe this has been officially settled in a FAQ or YMDC) is that when a Guardsman activates his ability to perform superhuman double-action feats because some guy in a hat told him to (toldburst?) the rule "Fix Bayonets" specifically calls out the fact that it can only be issued to unit that are ALREADY within 1" of an enemy unit.

And on the other side of a coin, Khorne Bezerkers when they activate twice can cheerfully wipe a unit, and because they fight twice, they can activate again, pile in and fight again, even if they started the turn in combat and were not within 1" the second time they activate. I have had this happen many, many times since 8th started.



On the turn you charge for that entire fight phase (attacking again is still the same game turn phase) you can NOT attack anyone you didnt charge, IF you made a charge that phase.

You have to declare a multi-charge in order to fight another unit with that stratagem. If you didnt charge that turn, you can attack anyone that you are within 1" of regardless if you started the round next to them or joined in via Pile in/Consolidate.


Yep, that's not being discussed.

My question here is this:

If a special rule/power/whatever says "A unit may Fight" then does that still require them to follow the normal restrictions upon being selected to fight?

My thought is that the answer seems to be "no". Just like a unit being allowed to Shoot bypasses the normal restrictions on being activated (A unit being only allowed to shoot once per turn during the shooting phase) a rule that causes a unit to Fight allows them to activate regardless of whether they'd charged or were within 1" of an enemy unit, unless there is an additional stipulation (as in the case of Fix Bayonets) that the rule can only be used if the unit is within 1" of an enemy.

Fix Bayonets says "this order may only be issued to units that are within 1" of an enemy unit. The ordered unit immediately fights as if it were the fight phase."

Soulburst just says "The unit immediately fights as if it were the fight phase."

What is the distinction between those rules if not that the Soulburst rule allows me to activate units that are not already within 1" of an enemy unit?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Of course having more options is better than having less. Some options to give more speed to the HQs would be nice, indeed, I just think that there were (are?) lots of other things to fix that had priority and were more important.

 vipoid wrote:


What does the second Haemonculus bring, though? Is it just so you can spread out a bit more without losing the aura?



Well it depends on how many coven units you want to field. I'd like to field two units of grotesques in raiders and at least 3 talos. Maybe even something else. Two haemys are needed to buff them all.

 vipoid wrote:


And what if you actually wanted to run her with Reavers or Hellions?

Again though, you're acting as if Wyches are the only units a Succubus could possibly go with.

What about Hellions? Or Reavers? Or even Beasts?


I use all of those units mostly as a tarpit, I don't think they need an HQ to buff them. It would be nice, sure, but necessary? Definitely not, all those units can work well without an HQ nearby.

 
   
Made in ro
Fresh-Faced New User




the_scotsman wrote:
 Nym wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
3) Use Word of the Pheonix and select "Fight" as an option. The fight phase sequence is Pile in, attack, consolidate - so you select your wyches, they Pile In,

In order to be able to fight, a unit must be within 1" of an ennemy unit BEFORE piling-in or have charged this turn.

In your example, your Wyches are 4" away from the ennemy and have not charged, so I believe they wouldn't be able to pile-in and to fight at all. Correct me if I'm wrong.


I guess the question is "does Soulburst bypass that restriction?" and while I'm not 100% sure (I don't play Ynnari myself) I have disputed with that exact claim myself in a competitive event and had the TO rule against me, and in several games after that I have had the same thing done to me.



Ow god no no no no.... i've had this happen to me like a year ago, pre codexes comming out, someone plonked the ynncarne down and soulburst "fought" him into my army... asked in several places and many people and still havn't gotten a stright answer on this or similar scenarios. I even emailed the new GW FAQ email about it... finger crossed they adress it it in the march *BLAM* SPRING FAQ.

I can tell you one thing with 99% certainty even IF the unit is a valid target to "fight" and even IF it gets to pile in to within 1", i shouldn't be able to swing, just lock the unit in combat, as it hasn't charged and iirc only units that start the fight phase within 1" or have charged in the previous charge phase can attack.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






The 1st rules for "Choosing units to fight with" says you must either have charged or started within 1".

You can not Word of the Phoenix and make a combat from 3" away.

   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

 Blackie wrote:
Of course having more options is better than having less. Some options to give more speed to the HQs would be nice, indeed, I just think that there were (are?) lots of other things to fix that had priority and were more important.

 vipoid wrote:


What does the second Haemonculus bring, though? Is it just so you can spread out a bit more without losing the aura?



Well it depends on how many coven units you want to field. I'd like to field two units of grotesques in raiders and at least 3 talos. Maybe even something else. Two haemys are needed to buff them all.

 vipoid wrote:


And what if you actually wanted to run her with Reavers or Hellions?

Again though, you're acting as if Wyches are the only units a Succubus could possibly go with.

What about Hellions? Or Reavers? Or even Beasts?


I use all of those units mostly as a tarpit, I don't think they need an HQ to buff them. It would be nice, sure, but necessary? Definitely not, all those units can work well without an HQ nearby.

You're missing the point Blackie. No one cares how you play those units, it's irrelevent here, but you're arguing that because you play them one there's no need to play them a different. Thats a truly terrible argument.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Imateria wrote:


You're missing the point Blackie. No one cares how you play those units, it's irrelevent here, but you're arguing that because you play them one there's no need to play them a different. Thats a truly terrible argument.


No, you're missing the point in this matter, or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm not saying that the option isn't needed because I play differently. I'm saying that all those units can be worthy even without a fast HQ. Which means a fast HQ is not necessary for making hellions, beasts and reavers good. They can be good even with the current rules.

The point is that having fast HQs isn't something needed. It would be great and a lot of fun, I agree about that, and having more options is alway better. But we can have efficient drukhari lists, with a wide range of worthy units, even without that option, that's my point. I'm not arguing that I don't want that option because I wouldn't use it anyway. Having coven stuff more resilient and more punchy was something needed for example, also a massive points drop on bikes and transports was necessary, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 11:59:31


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Blackie wrote:
 Imateria wrote:


You're missing the point Blackie. No one cares how you play those units, it's irrelevent here, but you're arguing that because you play them one there's no need to play them a different. Thats a truly terrible argument.


No, you're missing the point in this matter, or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm not saying that the option isn't needed because I play differently. I'm saying that all those units can be worthy even without a fast HQ. Which means a fast HQ is not necessary for making hellions, beasts and reavers good. They can be good even with the current rules.

The point is that having fast HQs isn't something needed. It would be great and a lot of fun, I agree about that, and having more options is alway better. But we can have efficient drukhari lists, with a wide range of worthy units, even without that option, that's my point. I'm not arguing that I don't want that option because I wouldn't use it anyway. Having coven stuff more resilient and more punchy was something needed for example, also a massive points drop on bikes and transports was necessary, etc.


I miss the synergy it brought, i miss playing the Baron, i like that style of HQ, the army is lacking in some parts and GW didnt fix one of the most requested ones.

Im disappointing for sure, but i still love DE and will still play them, heres hoping er get the one day!

   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 Amishprn86 wrote:
The 1st rules for "Choosing units to fight with" says you must either have charged or started within 1".

You can not Word of the Phoenix and make a combat from 3" away.


This should belong in the you make the call forum.

I do not know the wording of Wordmof the Phoenix, but it probably functions like other fight, or fight again. Khorne Berserkers and Tyranids have this.

There is only one 'fight' and that is the fight phase. The word fight is not used anywhere else in that section except the headline.

In order to fight you need to be within 1" of an enemy at the start of the close combat phase, or you need to have charged that turn. Furfilling those requierments starts a whole chain containing: Pile in, make attacks, make wounds, followed by saves, and then you consolidate or pile in towards the closest enemy.All of this is contained within fight.

Khorne Berserkers, the tyranid fight again stratagem (perhaps other stratagems as well) allow them to perform the whole chain mentioned above. The special rule, like the khorne berserker abilaty and tyranid stratgem provides and alternative entry into the fight chain, besides the 1" or charged requierments. This includes the 3" piling in, followed by the rest.

If you do not agree with this then please look to the fight phase and point to what the wording 'fight again' means. My interpetation, as well as all others interpetation, is that it refers to the whole fight chain. It would be different of the wording was 'make aditional attacks as if it was the fight phase' but it is not.

It is not unlikly that word of the phoenix works the same way. If you want to argue please quote the spesific rule that contradicts it because a vague 'that does not sound right' does not hold up to how they are worded in comparison to how the fight phase is worded in the rules.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






You might be right. I hope you're right, honestly. The wych trick also still works if you just charge the unit of wyches, but you have to get pretty aggressive with your charge declarations to make use of all the attacks (not too bad if you get a raider in first against the worst threats, as you should.)

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in ro
Fresh-Faced New User




 Niiai wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
The 1st rules for "Choosing units to fight with" says you must either have charged or started within 1".

You can not Word of the Phoenix and make a combat from 3" away.


This should belong in the you make the call forum.

I do not know the wording of Wordmof the Phoenix, but it probably functions like other fight, or fight again. Khorne Berserkers and Tyranids have this.

There is only one 'fight' and that is the fight phase. The word fight is not used anywhere else in that section except the headline.

In order to fight you need to be within 1" of an enemy at the start of the close combat phase, or you need to have charged that turn. Furfilling those requierments starts a whole chain containing: Pile in, make attacks, make wounds, followed by saves, and then you consolidate or pile in towards the closest enemy.All of this is contained within fight.

Khorne Berserkers, the tyranid fight again stratagem (perhaps other stratagems as well) allow them to perform the whole chain mentioned above. The special rule, like the khorne berserker abilaty and tyranid stratgem provides and alternative entry into the fight chain, besides the 1" or charged requierments. This includes the 3" piling in, followed by the rest.

If you do not agree with this then please look to the fight phase and point to what the wording 'fight again' means. My interpetation, as well as all others interpetation, is that it refers to the whole fight chain. It would be different of the wording was 'make aditional attacks as if it was the fight phase' but it is not.

It is not unlikly that word of the phoenix works the same way. If you want to argue please quote the spesific rule that contradicts it because a vague 'that does not sound right' does not hold up to how they are worded in comparison to how the fight phase is worded in the rules.


I mean it should generally be in the rullings forum, but on the other hand it does affect the power of many DE units... this is the last i'll say on the matter here anyway as untill i can poke GW into saying something official on the matter i'm tired of argueing in circles.

You touched on the entire crucx of the matter. The Fight phase has 6 steps, step 1 is choose a unit - charged or within 1". Does any power / stratagem / datasheet ability that says "fight as if the fight phase" replace step 1 - chose unit, thats the entire crux of the debate. If yes, then you can pile in (and potentially consolidate after "attacking" thin air to 6" if your only goal is to get a unit locked in meele anyway) if no, the attempt fizzles / the unit is not a valid target... and we can argue thill Vect wakes up one morning and decides he's found Jesus on the answer as neither interpretations are objectively wrong ... at this point it either works how your opponent / TO says it works or it works how you can browbeat your opponent into it working.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 13:45:48


 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Please read the close combat rules:

What does 'Fight again' or 'Fight' refer to except 'Choose a unit to fight with' that starts the whole chain squence.' Note the " A fight is resolved in the following steps: "

Spoiler:

5. FIGHT PHASE

Carnage engulfs the battlefield as the warring armies tear each other apart.

FIGHT SEQUENCE
1.Choose unit to fight with
2.Pile in up to 3"
3.Choose targets
4.Choose melee weapon
5.Resolve close combat attacks
• Make hit roll
• Make wound roll
• Enemy allocates wound
• Enemy makes saving throw
• Inflict damage
6.Consolidate up to 3"

1. Choose Unit to Fight With
Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase. This includes all units, not just those controlled by the player whose turn it is. All units that charged this turn fight first. The player whose turn it is picks the order in which these units fight. After all charging units have fought, the players alternate choosing eligible units to fight with (starting with the player whose turn it is) until all eligible units on both sides have fought once each. No unit can be selected to fight more than once in each Fight phase. If one player runs out of eligible units, the other player completes all of their remaining fights, one unit after another. A fight is resolved in the following steps:

2. Pile In
You may move each model in the unit up to 3" – this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

3. Choose Targets
First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of another model from its own unit that is itself within 1" of that enemy unit. This represents the unit fighting in two ranks. Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase. If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see right), it can split them between eligible target units as you wish. Similarly if a unit contains more than one model, each can target a different enemy unit. In either case, declare how you will split the unit’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving on to the next.

Number of Attacks
The number of close combat attacks a model makes against its target is determined by its Attacks characteristic. You roll one dice for each close combat attack being made. For example, if a model has an Attacks characteristic of 2, it can make 2 close combat attacks and you can therefore roll 2 dice.

4. Choose Melee Weapon
Each time a model makes a close combat attack, it uses a melee weapon – the weapons a model is equipped with are described on its datasheet. If a datasheet does not list any melee weapons, the model is assumed to fight with a close combat weapon, which has the following profile: If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for a number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks except you use the model’s Weapon Skill characteristic instead of its Ballistic Skill to make hit rolls.

6. Consolidate
You may move each model in the unit up to 3" – this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/04 13:59:09


   
Made in ro
Fresh-Faced New User




 Niiai wrote:
Please read the close combat rules:

What does 'Fight again' or 'Fight' refer to except 'Choose a unit to fight with' that starts the whole chain squence.' Note the " A fight is resolved in the following steps: "

Spoiler:

5. FIGHT PHASE

Carnage engulfs the battlefield as the warring armies tear each other apart.

FIGHT SEQUENCE
1.Choose unit to fight with
2.Pile in up to 3"
3.Choose targets
4.Choose melee weapon
5.Resolve close combat attacks
• Make hit roll
• Make wound roll
• Enemy allocates wound
• Enemy makes saving throw
• Inflict damage
6.Consolidate up to 3"

1. Choose Unit to Fight With
Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase. This includes all units, not just those controlled by the player whose turn it is. All units that charged this turn fight first. The player whose turn it is picks the order in which these units fight. After all charging units have fought, the players alternate choosing eligible units to fight with (starting with the player whose turn it is) until all eligible units on both sides have fought once each. No unit can be selected to fight more than once in each Fight phase. If one player runs out of eligible units, the other player completes all of their remaining fights, one unit after another. A fight is resolved in the following steps:

2. Pile In
You may move each model in the unit up to 3" – this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

3. Choose Targets
First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of another model from its own unit that is itself within 1" of that enemy unit. This represents the unit fighting in two ranks. Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase. If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see right), it can split them between eligible target units as you wish. Similarly if a unit contains more than one model, each can target a different enemy unit. In either case, declare how you will split the unit’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving on to the next.

Number of Attacks
The number of close combat attacks a model makes against its target is determined by its Attacks characteristic. You roll one dice for each close combat attack being made. For example, if a model has an Attacks characteristic of 2, it can make 2 close combat attacks and you can therefore roll 2 dice.

4. Choose Melee Weapon
Each time a model makes a close combat attack, it uses a melee weapon – the weapons a model is equipped with are described on its datasheet. If a datasheet does not list any melee weapons, the model is assumed to fight with a close combat weapon, which has the following profile: If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for a number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks except you use the model’s Weapon Skill characteristic instead of its Ballistic Skill to make hit rolls.

6. Consolidate
You may move each model in the unit up to 3" – this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.


Well ... beyond the usual inconsistencies like "Select a HERETIC ASTARTES KHORNE INFANTRY or BIKER unit – that unit CAN immediately fight again." -- "This order can only be issued to units that are within 1" of an enemy unit. The ordered unit IMMEDIATELY FIGHTS as if it were the Fight phase." --- "The unit CAN fight as if it were the Fight phase <--- In the case of CSM and Ynnari i've bolded CAN as in, is able to, as in got from step 1 to step 6, step one, is your unit within 1" of an enemy model or has charged? no? well the ability fizzles. In the case of IG there is no possible conflict (a case for RAI). The one conflict i can see is IF a unit has fought, wiped out a unit and consolidated is still >1" away from enemy units, can it use "fight twice?" as it HAS actually charged previouslly. The Stratagems / Soul Burst don't actually say "chose a unit to fight" they say "choose a unit [..] CAN(?) it fight?"

Same thing with Khorne Berserkers, the datasheet says the unit "CAN" fight twice in each fight phase. As in are the requirements (step 1, choose unit) to fight fullfilled or not? Again the ONE problem i have is what if the unit had charged previouslly? Also consider

Spoiler:
Q: If a unit starts the Fight phase within 1" of an enemy unit but, due to casualties suffered and models removed, it is no longer within 1" of any enemy units later in the phase, can it still be chosen to fight?
A: No, unless the unit in question charged this turn it cannot be chosen to fight if there are no longer enemy units within 1". Note that it is possible – if heavy enough casualties have been incurred – that even a unit that did charge may not be close enough, even after a pile-in move, to make close combat attacks. It can still, of course, consolidate.

Indicating the the unit is NOT a valid target if not within 1" at the time of being activated



And

Spoiler:
Q: If a unit piles in or consolidates into
a unit it didn’t declare a charge against
in the preceding Charge phase, does that
unit get to fire Overwatch?
A: No.

Remember though that units that charged can
only make close combat attacks against units
that they declared the charge against, even if
pile-in moves, etc. bring them within 1" of a
different unit.

Indicated that all else failling and "CAN fight" means "ignore step 1: choose unit" and you pile into an enemy unit, it still couldn't swing (if it just arrived via transport / deep strike)
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Then take it into the rules section. This is not the place for it. Discussions like this bring on to much baggage in a thread like this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 15:50:08


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





If the unit charged that turn it can't fight targets it didn't declare a charge against. Nothing in any of those Strategems grants permission otherwise.

Tactical advice, don't base your strategy arounding ignoring core rules when the ability you are using doesn't grant permission to ignore said rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 16:03:51


 
   
Made in ro
Fresh-Faced New User




 Niiai wrote:
Then take it into the rules section. This is not the place for it. Discussions like this bring on to much baggage in a thread like this.


Yep, moved tho i'd really like this question put to rest allready as it IS pertinent for a "transport" based army. Aaaaand moving on to other shenanigans because.... duh. Can a stat every be modified under 0? I know a 1 is allways a failure but i'm talking leadership here. I'm curious if a "LD bomb" style list would be viable. Chaos could do this but chaos has to either do it with squishy Night Lords Infantry + expensive FW models. DE could do it with units you'd want to take normally.

So it's like 3 from Obssesion, 1 From killing the WL ("easily done via essoteric kill from afar), 2 From a hemlock, 1 from Horrify ... a Wraithseer could add 1 for a -8. Anything else? If this was applyed to say a unit with 6 LD, would it hit -2 or 0? Also Shadow specter force unit to trait morale rolls as "melta" and i think incubi or Drazhar make 1 aditional model flee? (i have a brief flash of seeing something regarding to the DE codex along the lines of "each time a model flees an aditonal one does" as in... double morale casualties? Could just be how the writer was hastilly translating it or could just be a fever dream...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Niiai wrote:
Then take it into the rules section. This is not the place for it. Discussions like this bring on to much baggage in a thread like this.


Honestly? this thread is nothing but baggage now, let them discus it, index is dead, codex is coming out.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

For the sake of anyone else who may have a similar question, it may be worthwhile to start a new thread in YMDC and continue the discussion there. Thanks!

   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Spoiler:


From a Spanish version of the Codex, Mandrakes now to 1d3 MW in 6+ to wound. But maybe this is an error, I don't know, the spanish versions of the codex are prone to that.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Wow. 1D3 mortal wounds as opposed to 1 is quite strong. 2 mortal wounds on averadge from 9 shots averadge is quite good.

A unit of 5 puts out 10 shots, having 2 mortal wounds in there can be good at popping in from reserves and finishing something of. I am sure some Ynari will try to soulburst a unit of 10 to lay down some mortal wounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 17:32:18


   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I like to imagine that the various foreign language interpreters of GW codexes just try to slip buffs in to their favorite armies.

"Erm, Pablo, I just decided to give you a call about one of these english to spanish translations..."

"Si, senor?"

"You appear to have translated "1" into "1D3""

"Si senor, 1D3 is a common Spanish abbreviation for the Spanish word for 'one', 'Uno Dos Tres'"

"One translates to 'Uno Dos Tres'?"

"Si, we always wondered here why the band U2 counts 'One, Fourteen' at the beginning of his song!"

"Right, good, nothing to worry then, I'll make sure to remember that for all future codex releases"

"See that you do...."

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




NC, USA

SI PAPI, MAS HERIDAS MORTALES POR FAVOR
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

It's usually D3 not 1D3, that's clearly a mistake.

 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Blackie wrote:
Of course having more options is better than having less. Some options to give more speed to the HQs would be nice, indeed, I just think that there were (are?) lots of other things to fix that had priority and were more important.


I disagree - with the new rules requiring us to include even more HQs, they should really have been given more priority.

It would also be nice to not have an absolutely pitiful choice of HQs. Cult gets a Succubus or a Succubus character. Coven gets a Haemonculs or a Haemonculus character. Kabal gets an Archon or to eat .

With so little choice already, I don't think it's unreasonable to have some actual mobility options for them.

 Blackie wrote:
Well it depends on how many coven units you want to field. I'd like to field two units of grotesques in raiders and at least 3 talos. Maybe even something else. Two haemys are needed to buff them all.


Fair enough.

 Blackie wrote:
I use all of those units mostly as a tarpit, I don't think they need an HQ to buff them. It would be nice, sure, but necessary? Definitely not, all those units can work well without an HQ nearby.


This is the kind of thing I mean, though. We're already locked into what we can't do.

Lets say you want to use those units as tarpits no matter what. Okay, fine. But what about someone who would prefer to use them as hammers, using a HQ to both grant them rerolls and add some additional punch?

In terms of units working without HQs nearby, this kinda goes back to my original point. I get that we don't want our army to fall apart without HQs nearby, but at the moment it really seems like our HQs are surplus to their own army.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
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