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 Red Corsair wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea the more I play the more I realize neophytes should really be the guys ambushing turn 1. There is no result they cannot work with. They are also dirt cheap and have the volume to keep your characters hidden and working.

I expect this to change a bit when acolytes get a cost adjustment though, right now they are just way too pricey. The durability of a guardsmen at 3x the cost lol.

Acolytes are plain overpriced as of now...they are worth 6-7 points per model

I'd say more like 8 ppm. I think dropping them to 6 would be too cheap. You got to remember, we are not just going to get cost adjustments, we are also going to gain more free rules essentially when we gain traits and stratagems. Either way we both can agree they are way to pricey currently, which is only made worse by the cost of their upgrades as well. I look forward to running rock drills seriously.

It doesn't make sense to get Acolytes at 8 pts since they are strictly comparable to Ork Boyz which cost 6 points.
Whatever you said about the upgraded rules in the Codex doesn't matter, DE had their troops reduced by few points with the codex release (and it gave them huge bonuses)

Acolytes are 7 pts in KT and really good (Neophytes are still 5). Worth mentioning. Different game though but not wildly.


Purestrains should be able to wrap most things guys. Just use your charge move to put enough Stealers in range to kill roughly 80%-90% of their squad, keep the rest just out, and then consolidate around the survivors.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea the more I play the more I realize neophytes should really be the guys ambushing turn 1. There is no result they cannot work with. They are also dirt cheap and have the volume to keep your characters hidden and working.

I expect this to change a bit when acolytes get a cost adjustment though, right now they are just way too pricey. The durability of a guardsmen at 3x the cost lol.

Acolytes are plain overpriced as of now...they are worth 6-7 points per model

I'd say more like 8 ppm. I think dropping them to 6 would be too cheap. You got to remember, we are not just going to get cost adjustments, we are also going to gain more free rules essentially when we gain traits and stratagems. Either way we both can agree they are way to pricey currently, which is only made worse by the cost of their upgrades as well. I look forward to running rock drills seriously.

It doesn't make sense to get Acolytes at 8 pts since they are strictly comparable to Ork Boyz which cost 6 points.
Whatever you said about the upgraded rules in the Codex doesn't matter, DE had their troops reduced by few points with the codex release (and it gave them huge bonuses)

hardly comparable to an ork boy IMO. We lack T sure but we get higher LD, better BS, better armor, cult ambush, unquestioning loyalty AND our base attack is min ap -1 and potentially ap-4. That doesn't even factor the 4x as much gear that is all useful. 6 points would be absolutely silly. Acolytes were 8 ppm in 7th and I was finding them broken then lol. I honestly hope they don't drop them that much, I shelved my DE recently because they over buffed that book. Having too easy a path sucks worse then a hard one IMHO. But again, I don't want to derail the thread arguing semantics when we clearly both agree they need a cost reduction as 11ppm is absolutely idiotic. If kill team has them at 7ppm then that is probably what they will cost in the end, will have to wait and see how that pans out, but it will absolutely kill the small urge there is now to consider purestrains, why bother when an acolyte is less then half the price?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Acolytes are 7 pts in KT and really good (Neophytes are still 5). Worth mentioning. Different game though but not wildly.


Purestrains should be able to wrap most things guys. Just use your charge move to put enough Stealers in range to kill roughly 80%-90% of their squad, keep the rest just out, and then consolidate around the survivors.

Wrap and trap is a funny one for me. Makes NO sense to pay for such efficiency if your going to intentionally kneecap your offense in order to under kill your potential. At that point your better off taking something else that kills just the right amount and costs way less. Thats why I am leaning toward shotgun neophytes with the same character support and spells you would use on purestrains. Consider 20 shotgun neos with a banner are 120pts (which I would bet is reduced to 110 since the banner is way too high) and near the same buffs, primus, relic banner and might from beyond they are hitting most targets at s5 with 2 swings each hitting on 3's rerolling 1's and they can shotgun something else on the way in. Thats pretty efficient, your talking almost 1/3 what purestrains cost.

I will also echo that I think the abomanant is way too cheap, he eliminated the reason to take abberants lol. Why bother when he does similar work to 5 hammer abbs for yet again 1/3 the cost PLUS he is way more durable then those 5 abs. This guy standing next to a brick of neophytes is absurdly durable, he seems decent on paper but trust me he is better then you may think. I think this guy is your hidden AT. If taking abberants I am sticking to picks.

Codex speculation: Going by every other single faction army release (space wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc) we’ll probably get one pretty nice universal rule for everyone. Stuff like rerolling all 1’s and +1 to wound are very strong, and Orks with their universal DakkaDakka rule are...not as good but still decent. What special rule does everyone think we’ll get?

I wanna say a mini version of synapse. Maybe instead of ignoring morale we lose a max of one guy around HQs.

I wanna say a mini version of synapse. Maybe instead of ignoring morale we lose a max of one guy around HQs.

That would kind of suck, lol. Our units mostly have Guardsmen level of survivability. So when they get shot at or charged they simply die. There just isn't anything left that could flee from morale. And even if he just kills 6 of my 10 Neophytes (and only 1 flees) those remaining 3 dudes won't do anything.

 Red Corsair wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea the more I play the more I realize neophytes should really be the guys ambushing turn 1. There is no result they cannot work with. They are also dirt cheap and have the volume to keep your characters hidden and working.

I expect this to change a bit when acolytes get a cost adjustment though, right now they are just way too pricey. The durability of a guardsmen at 3x the cost lol.

Acolytes are plain overpriced as of now...they are worth 6-7 points per model

I'd say more like 8 ppm. I think dropping them to 6 would be too cheap. You got to remember, we are not just going to get cost adjustments, we are also going to gain more free rules essentially when we gain traits and stratagems. Either way we both can agree they are way to pricey currently, which is only made worse by the cost of their upgrades as well. I look forward to running rock drills seriously.

It doesn't make sense to get Acolytes at 8 pts since they are strictly comparable to Ork Boyz which cost 6 points.
Whatever you said about the upgraded rules in the Codex doesn't matter, DE had their troops reduced by few points with the codex release (and it gave them huge bonuses)

hardly comparable to an ork boy IMO. We lack T sure but we get higher LD, better BS, better armor, cult ambush, unquestioning loyalty AND our base attack is min ap -1 and potentially ap-4. That doesn't even factor the 4x as much gear that is all useful. 6 points would be absolutely silly. Acolytes were 8 ppm in 7th and I was finding them broken then lol. I honestly hope they don't drop them that much, I shelved my DE recently because they over buffed that book. Having too easy a path sucks worse then a hard one IMHO. But again, I don't want to derail the thread arguing semantics when we clearly both agree they need a cost reduction as 11ppm is absolutely idiotic. If kill team has them at 7ppm then that is probably what they will cost in the end, will have to wait and see how that pans out, but it will absolutely kill the small urge there is now to consider purestrains, why bother when an acolyte is less then half the price?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Acolytes are 7 pts in KT and really good (Neophytes are still 5). Worth mentioning. Different game though but not wildly.


Purestrains should be able to wrap most things guys. Just use your charge move to put enough Stealers in range to kill roughly 80%-90% of their squad, keep the rest just out, and then consolidate around the survivors.

Wrap and trap is a funny one for me. Makes NO sense to pay for such efficiency if your going to intentionally kneecap your offense in order to under kill your potential. At that point your better off taking something else that kills just the right amount and costs way less. Thats why I am leaning toward shotgun neophytes with the same character support and spells you would use on purestrains. Consider 20 shotgun neos with a banner are 120pts (which I would bet is reduced to 110 since the banner is way too high) and near the same buffs, primus, relic banner and might from beyond they are hitting most targets at s5 with 2 swings each hitting on 3's rerolling 1's and they can shotgun something else on the way in. Thats pretty efficient, your talking almost 1/3 what purestrains cost.

The thing is, sometimes you'll want that extra killing power, sometimes you won't. You can assault multiple groups at once with Genestealer and still come out on top, this forces your opponent to spread, or have that happen, and you can keep that very potent threat around by wrapping things up. Also, your CC unit will inevitably get thinned out, and 10 Neophytes does a lot less on it's own than 10 Genestealers. Also, when you factor in the points you're dedicating to giving those neophytes Might and two banners, you basically have the cost of a Stealer squad anyway.

I just don't think it's that black and white, and I think Purestrains are still great.

Don't get me wrong purestrains are amazing, but my finding is they are too amazing. Also note that 120 point shotgun squad was not 10 man it was 20. so your still 30pts cheaper then 10 stealers. You can tie down a lot more units with 20 models then 10. 10 stealers pumps out 40 attacks so long as one soesn't drop to overwatch, but the 20 shotgun neos shoots 40 then punches 21 more lol.

Again, I haven't heard a great argument as to why I should bother paying the price tag for a unit as efficient as stealers, if in order to make them work I need to keep most of them outside combat. It isn't as if they can't counter your plan easily, they just assault a walker or transport into the extreme flank of that stealer blob and continue to keep them pinned back in your own turn again. I've done it to others and had it done to me.

Don't get me wrong, I still think we need hammer type units, but thats where I think the abomanant and aberrants come in. a 5 man team of pick abbs is more resilient, can ride in a transport and still out kills most units. Also note that this is all my conclusions based on the current state, if they give us the enevitable fight twice stratagem for stealers or some way to spring them up more reliably etc etc along with point shifts then this all goes back into the mixing bowl.

As it stands though, most people are using GEQ for infantry and the best unit to combat GEQ is sadly other GEQ. We have a high leadership guardsmen unit that gets to alpha and- spring onto objectives all over the table, which is really strong.

Maybe it is because I play Catachan guard as well, it isn't intuitive to think guardsmen or cultist can kill things well in assault, but yet they really can.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Don't get me wrong purestrains are amazing, but my finding is they are too amazing. Also note that 120 point shotgun squad was not 10 man it was 20. so your still 30pts cheaper then 10 stealers. You can tie down a lot more units with 20 models then 10. 10 stealers pumps out 40 attacks so long as one soesn't drop to overwatch, but the 20 shotgun neos shoots 40 then punches 21 more lol.

Again, I haven't heard a great argument as to why I should bother paying the price tag for a unit as efficient as stealers, if in order to make them work I need to keep most of them outside combat. It isn't as if they can't counter your plan easily, they just assault a walker or transport into the extreme flank of that stealer blob and continue to keep them pinned back in your own turn again. I've done it to others and had it done to me.

Don't get me wrong, I still think we need hammer type units, but thats where I think the abomanant and aberrants come in. a 5 man team of pick abbs is more resilient, can ride in a transport and still out kills most units. Also note that this is all my conclusions based on the current state, if they give us the enevitable fight twice stratagem for stealers or some way to spring them up more reliably etc etc along with point shifts then this all goes back into the mixing bowl.

As it stands though, most people are using GEQ for infantry and the best unit to combat GEQ is sadly other GEQ. We have a high leadership guardsmen unit that gets to alpha and- spring onto objectives all over the table, which is really strong.

Maybe it is because I play Catachan guard as well, it isn't intuitive to think guardsmen or cultist can kill things well in assault, but yet they really can.

No no, I meant say when the unit is thinned out, you take more than 10 of both to begin with but they've taken some casualties, and say 10 remain in each squad. The Stealers remain a relevant threat for much longer than the Neophytes and require much less support to do so, was my point.

Anyways I respect your opinion, I just think both are good. Also, in a month or two when we started seeing armies with over 100 boyz in it, I'm thinking Purestrains might look a lot better. Soundly killing 40 Boyz before they can swing back is gonna be legit.

I’d still rather just ally in some Kraken Genestealers. Gives you more boots on the ground for the ambushers, they’re troops, cheaper, more options, etc etc.

 Red Corsair wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea the more I play the more I realize neophytes should really be the guys ambushing turn 1. There is no result they cannot work with. They are also dirt cheap and have the volume to keep your characters hidden and working.

I expect this to change a bit when acolytes get a cost adjustment though, right now they are just way too pricey. The durability of a guardsmen at 3x the cost lol.

Acolytes are plain overpriced as of now...they are worth 6-7 points per model

I'd say more like 8 ppm. I think dropping them to 6 would be too cheap. You got to remember, we are not just going to get cost adjustments, we are also going to gain more free rules essentially when we gain traits and stratagems. Either way we both can agree they are way to pricey currently, which is only made worse by the cost of their upgrades as well. I look forward to running rock drills seriously.

It doesn't make sense to get Acolytes at 8 pts since they are strictly comparable to Ork Boyz which cost 6 points.
Whatever you said about the upgraded rules in the Codex doesn't matter, DE had their troops reduced by few points with the codex release (and it gave them huge bonuses)

hardly comparable to an ork boy IMO. We lack T sure but we get higher LD, better BS, better armor, cult ambush, unquestioning loyalty AND our base attack is min ap -1 and potentially ap-4. That doesn't even factor the 4x as much gear that is all useful. 6 points would be absolutely silly. Acolytes were 8 ppm in 7th and I was finding them broken then lol. I honestly hope they don't drop them that much, I shelved my DE recently because they over buffed that book. Having too easy a path sucks worse then a hard one IMHO. But again, I don't want to derail the thread arguing semantics when we clearly both agree they need a cost reduction as 11ppm is absolutely idiotic. If kill team has them at 7ppm then that is probably what they will cost in the end, will have to wait and see how that pans out, but it will absolutely kill the small urge there is now to consider purestrains, why bother when an acolyte is less then half the price?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Acolytes are 7 pts in KT and really good (Neophytes are still 5). Worth mentioning. Different game though but not wildly.


Purestrains should be able to wrap most things guys. Just use your charge move to put enough Stealers in range to kill roughly 80%-90% of their squad, keep the rest just out, and then consolidate around the survivors.

Wrap and trap is a funny one for me. Makes NO sense to pay for such efficiency if your going to intentionally kneecap your offense in order to under kill your potential. At that point your better off taking something else that kills just the right amount and costs way less. Thats why I am leaning toward shotgun neophytes with the same character support and spells you would use on purestrains. Consider 20 shotgun neos with a banner are 120pts (which I would bet is reduced to 110 since the banner is way too high) and near the same buffs, primus, relic banner and might from beyond they are hitting most targets at s5 with 2 swings each hitting on 3's rerolling 1's and they can shotgun something else on the way in. Thats pretty efficient, your talking almost 1/3 what purestrains cost.

I will also echo that I think the abomanant is way too cheap, he eliminated the reason to take abberants lol. Why bother when he does similar work to 5 hammer abbs for yet again 1/3 the cost PLUS he is way more durable then those 5 abs. This guy standing next to a brick of neophytes is absurdly durable, he seems decent on paper but trust me he is better then you may think. I think this guy is your hidden AT. If taking abberants I am sticking to picks.

1) Higher LD -> False, Orks LD is mostly irrelevant and based off Unit Size/Nearby Units Size
2) Better BS is offset by having a S3 gun whilst Orks have a S4 one.
3) Toughness 4 and 6+ is almost identical to Toughness 3 5+ for most anti-infantry guns so not really a "plus" to have a 5+ Armor
4) Cult Ambush is the equivalent of 'Ere we Go and Unquestioning Loyalty is as useful as the new "Dakka Dakka Dakka" rule all Orks get
5) Our base attack is AP -1 but Orks have twice the attacks. Fine for both

The exact price for an Acolyte is between 6 and 7 points, having it being more expensive is a death sentence for the playability of such unit; also the comparison between 7TH and 8TH is nonsense: Acolytes had 4 attacks on charge in the previous edition and 3-4 more rules that made them super tanky for the price and capable of dishing insane damage per model whilst it's really not the case in 8TH

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Don't get me wrong purestrains are amazing, but my finding is they are too amazing. Also note that 120 point shotgun squad was not 10 man it was 20. so your still 30pts cheaper then 10 stealers. You can tie down a lot more units with 20 models then 10. 10 stealers pumps out 40 attacks so long as one soesn't drop to overwatch, but the 20 shotgun neos shoots 40 then punches 21 more lol.

Again, I haven't heard a great argument as to why I should bother paying the price tag for a unit as efficient as stealers, if in order to make them work I need to keep most of them outside combat. It isn't as if they can't counter your plan easily, they just assault a walker or transport into the extreme flank of that stealer blob and continue to keep them pinned back in your own turn again. I've done it to others and had it done to me.

Don't get me wrong, I still think we need hammer type units, but thats where I think the abomanant and aberrants come in. a 5 man team of pick abbs is more resilient, can ride in a transport and still out kills most units. Also note that this is all my conclusions based on the current state, if they give us the enevitable fight twice stratagem for stealers or some way to spring them up more reliably etc etc along with point shifts then this all goes back into the mixing bowl.

As it stands though, most people are using GEQ for infantry and the best unit to combat GEQ is sadly other GEQ. We have a high leadership guardsmen unit that gets to alpha and- spring onto objectives all over the table, which is really strong.

Maybe it is because I play Catachan guard as well, it isn't intuitive to think guardsmen or cultist can kill things well in assault, but yet they really can.

No no, I meant say when the unit is thinned out, you take more than 10 of both to begin with but they've taken some casualties, and say 10 remain in each squad. The Stealers remain a relevant threat for much longer than the Neophytes and require much less support to do so, was my point.

Anyways I respect your opinion, I just think both are good. Also, in a month or two when we started seeing armies with over 100 boyz in it, I'm thinking Purestrains might look a lot better. Soundly killing 40 Boyz before they can swing back is gonna be legit.

Ah I see what you mean now. Mutual respect as well, and I am betting your right on the ork front. It's also worth mentioning that metas are varied. In mine you see droves of chaf. Basically 6 point or less models for days. It really sucks trading genestealers for chaf, but thats life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@KurtAngel I already told you I wasn't going to play rules developer with you. We have mutual agreement that they need a point decrease, by how much is totally irrelevant in the end since neither of us are in any place to make the changes. So why argue the subjective semantics? We agree they need a cut in price, we disagree by how much. I like having a challenge in my games so I'd rather the price cuts be kept conservative, that's my own opinion on balance. I hate what they did to my DE, they play themselves now which is boring and bad for mutual enjoyment on both sides of the table.

Telling someone their point is nonesense is not a valid counter argument either. Try being a bit amicable.

I think it probably is the better choice to go Neophytes. Im not going for the Iconward because FNP is whatever when it's for a single unit, same with the +1S, especially when you're already ideally at S4 due to Might, the difference S5 brings is one of the least relevant Strength differences in the game, and the Iconward is just another moving piece and extra cost to a unit who's main advantage is being cheap. I might consider a Patriarch though, fearless Neophytes are sick and he can help pay for himself with his sharp sharp claws. That being said, I'm only running a small GSC battalion detachment in my Nids army, so maybe for GSC mains the Iconward is a bit prettier.

I'm going to be taking 20 Neophytes with shotties and a banner as well. I feel like you're probably right that Neophytes are better at this right now, and are more flexible for the role, the saved points let you bring more things in the rest of your army. Purestrains are still very good though. We'll see if the meta encourages them more after FAQ, CA, and everyone has a codex.

The big FAQ/Errata is released. Only minor clarifications/updates in the GSC section of Index Xenos 2:


Page 112
– A Deadly Trap
Change the second sentence of this Cult Ambush result
to read:
‘It can either move D6" even though it has just arrived
as reinforcements, or shoot with all of its ranged
weapons as if it were the Shooting phase (doing so does
not prevent it from shooting in the Shooting phase or
charging in the Charge phase of this turn).’


Q: If, in a matched play game, I use the Return to the Shadows
Stratagem to remove one of my Genestealer Cult units from the
battlefield during the fourth battle round, are they considered to
be destroyed because of the Tactical Reserves matched play rule?
A: No.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_index_xenos_2_en.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More interesting though, we have lost the excemption from the TACTICAL RESERVES beta rule. And that rule is still in beta, but has been changed.

Bad part: We are no longer allowed to cult ambush during turn one.

Good part: Our codex is on it's way.

"We have also removed the exemption that Genestealer Cults had in the previous beta version of this rule – rest assured this has been taken into account for Codex: Genestealer Cults, which is currently in development"

The rule for deploying half the army on the table is now counted on points.

Also, some changes to command point gain, so AM is not quite as powerful as a CP-battery.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_the_big_faq_2_en.pdf

I was hoping for clear faq for mind control and shooting a McD unit at characters. I have no major issues with any of the changes nearly no effect on my other armies(tyranid or guard) and makeing me wait till turn 2 I think will stop me from jumping the gun and make me more tactical with my ambushes.

Well, until the Codex drops GSC has been heavily nerfed. Hope it's not too far out.

I do not take solice in this phrasing: "...rest assured this has been taken into account for Codex: Genestealer Cults, which is currently in development."

How long does it take to print these things? Presumably it has to be at the printers very, very, very soon for a November release.

I've just assumed it wouldn't be released until 2019

Caspian89 wrote:I finally finished the Power Lifter pieces for my Sentinel models. I magnetized some Killa Kan arms and painted them suitably to match the other mining weapons. I think it does the job well and the bits are not expensive. Now to field these little ankle biters.
[/img]

Very nice work! The one with the drill arm reminds me of the old Lego Granite Grinder set:

Badablack wrote:Codex speculation: Going by every other single faction army release (space wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc) we’ll probably get one pretty nice universal rule for everyone. Stuff like rerolling all 1’s and +1 to wound are very strong, and Orks with their universal DakkaDakka rule are...not as good but still decent. What special rule does everyone think we’ll get?

We technically already have two such rules in Cult Ambush and Unquestioning Loyalty. I'm hoping they will do sub-faction rules for the major cults, since they have already given an example of at least one (Pauper Princes) that has expanded operations far beyond its original world .

SHUPPET wrote:I think it probably is the better choice to go Neophytes. Im not going for the Iconward because FNP is whatever when it's for a single unit, same with the +1S, especially when you're already ideally at S4 due to Might, the difference S5 brings is one of the least relevant Strength differences in the game, and the Iconward is just another moving piece and extra cost to a unit who's main advantage is being cheap. I might consider a Patriarch though, fearless Neophytes are sick and he can help pay for himself with his sharp sharp claws. That being said, I'm only running a small GSC battalion detachment in my Nids army, so maybe for GSC mains the Iconward is a bit prettier.

My general experience has been that the Iconward pairs well with Neophytes due to the moral reroll bubble more than FNP. While the Patriarch can make units completely immune to moral, he also costs three times as much as an Iconward. Almost all GSC squads have LD8, so assuming 10-man units they have to be down to 1 guy before moral is impossible to pass. A 20 strong unit can make the case for a Patriarch, but for the little 10-man units an Iconward is sufficient for most moral purposes.

Also I am starting to really like Shotgun Neophytes now that I've amassed ~30 of them. They generally want to be close anyway for bubble wrap purposes and the extra strength is a huge benefit against both GEQ and MEQ infantry. Plus they don't need special or want heavy weapons, so they are cheap, mobile, and disposable.

Mellon wrote:
Page 112
– A Deadly Trap
Change the second sentence of this Cult Ambush result
to read:
‘It can either move D6" even though it has just arrived
as reinforcements, or shoot with all of its ranged
weapons as if it were the Shooting phase (doing so does
not prevent it from shooting in the Shooting phase or
charging in the Charge phase of this turn).’

Good addition, it insures that there should not be any confusion about being able to use the movement aspect of Cult Ambush despite the modifications to reserve rules (Result 6 already had that wording).

Mellon wrote:
Q: If, in a matched play game, I use the Return to the Shadows
Stratagem to remove one of my Genestealer Cult units from the
battlefield during the fourth battle round, are they considered to
be destroyed because of the Tactical Reserves matched play rule?
A: No.

They had already made similar rulings with the Mawloc's Burrow ability and the Swooping Hawks Skyleap ability, but it is nice to have it specifically spelled out.

Mellon wrote:
More interesting though, we have lost the excemption from the TACTICAL RESERVES beta rule. And that rule is still in beta, but has been changed.

Bad part: We are no longer allowed to cult ambush during turn one.

Good part: Our codex is on it's way.

This is unfortunate but I don't think it is an entirely insurmountable nerf. In most of my games lately I've been holding back ambushes until turn 2 so the ambushing elements can meet up with my mechanized troops for threat saturation. It does kill pure GSC foot lists though. Without turn 1 forward deployment it is going to be really hard to get good positioning and the army is too expensive to run as an attrition-minded horde that walks up the table.

Mellon wrote:
The rule for deploying half the army on the table is now counted on points.

This is a nice change. Most of the PL values for the army are horrifically inflated so this is a net gain as far as the number of ambushers that can be used in matched play. It does mean one can't abuse 11-strong Neophyte units or 6 strong Aberrant squads as ambush batteries, but I like the change.

Mellon wrote:
Also, some changes to command point gain, so AM is not quite as powerful as a CP-battery.

I do like this change. Combined with the stratagem cost increases it should put an end to the Blood Angel + Imperial Knight + AM Battery lists, as the key components required a constant stream of command points to function. Doesn't really hurt GSC much since both of our unique stratagems are 1 CP and we already liked taking a GSC warlord to get access to the Icon of the Cult Ascendant relic (can still get the Aquilla via the AM stratagem).

Also worth noting, the Tyranid Feeder Tendrils stratagem was specifically exempt from this alteration. We already are happy to borrow Hive Fleet Genestealers so it is worth keeping the stratagem in mind if an opportunity presents itself.


I'll update the main post with the new information.

Tactics question about the Aberrants:

Is there value in taking two units of 10, each with an Abominant? Or should I focus on one unit?

caladancid wrote:
Tactics question about the Aberrants:

Is there value in taking two units of 10, each with an Abominant? Or should I focus on one unit?

With Primus and Meticolous Planning I'd always go for 10...it's practically guaranteed to have a 5 or 6 on the table

So I just realized a thing. Our CA warlord trait allows units within 3" of the warlord to perform a heroic intervention. The FAQ states you don't have to be charged in your opponents turn to perform a heroic intervention. So it's possible for us to chain multiple units near our warlord and they can all pile into enemies within 3" of any of them which creates a lot more board control, especially if you have them on the back foot trying to fall back from you in their deployment zone.

Away from my CA so maybe someone can check and see if I am missing part of the wording since I never use it.

So since they are planning for GSC to work around no first turn ambushes anymore, I can only speculate what they are planning to do. I may be shortsighted, but I can't shake the feeling that it's going to be the same stuff available but you pay CP for the first turn option or something. And maybe like, Purestrains lowered to Tyranid Stealer costs to try balance it out. All pure speculation of course.


As it stands, I was planning on buying 3 Abominants today. Glad I didn't. I'll stick with Hive Guard for now thanks.

I appreciate the FAQ changes and how GW are trying to fix the game but why if the GSC codex is in development have the decided to massively nerf the faction now.
I was about the only player left still taking GSC to majors and thats out the window now. Were they really so dominant they needed their entire gimmick thrown out?
As it stands for me my whole army concept is dead and buried with the removal of the deep strike intervention (I don't necessarily bum rush turn one but if I go second I certainly cant take two turns of shooting with my holding force before my ambush comes in vs any well put together gunline.)
Would it have been too much to let GSC retain their exemption until the codex then bring in those rules instead?

I’m definitely taking fortifications now. For killpoints games at least, there’s no reason not to just turtle in a 2+ T9 20 wound building first turn and let them come to you.

Sneggy wrote:
I appreciate the FAQ changes and how GW are trying to fix the game but why if the GSC codex is in development have the decided to massively nerf the faction now.
I was about the only player left still taking GSC to majors and thats out the window now. Were they really so dominant they needed their entire gimmick thrown out?
As it stands for me my whole army concept is dead and buried with the removal of the deep strike intervention (I don't necessarily bum rush turn one but if I go second I certainly cant take two turns of shooting with my holding force before my ambush comes in vs any well put together gunline.)
Would it have been too much to let GSC retain their exemption until the codex then bring in those rules instead?

It's pretty crappy, but I guess they're looking at the bigger picture and deciding that they will do what they need to on release and not have any currently written exceptions getting in the way that they then have to overwrite again for potentially the 4th time in the space of a year. I think GSC is very low tier army as it stands now though.

Sneggy wrote:
I appreciate the FAQ changes and how GW are trying to fix the game but why if the GSC codex is in development have the decided to massively nerf the faction now.
I was about the only player left still taking GSC to majors and thats out the window now. Were they really so dominant they needed their entire gimmick thrown out?
As it stands for me my whole army concept is dead and buried with the removal of the deep strike intervention (I don't necessarily bum rush turn one but if I go second I certainly cant take two turns of shooting with my holding force before my ambush comes in vs any well put together gunline.)
Would it have been too much to let GSC retain their exemption until the codex then bring in those rules instead?

Well honestly, if they are planning on taking away the cult ambush table (which I think will happen) then who cares if they do it now or in a few months. I'd rather get used to playing without it. My guess is along with shuppets. They CLEARLY do not want turn 1 assaults to go off all over the table, and are even trying to mitigate all first turn alpha strikes. I would also bet on a generic 1cp per unit stratagem that gives us a free redeploy up the board like all the other infiltration stratagems turned into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh also I checked CA, our warlord trait simply gives units within 6" the ability to heroically intervene so yes we can exploit that FAQ ruling, that said it is a bit situational.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Sneggy wrote:
I appreciate the FAQ changes and how GW are trying to fix the game but why if the GSC codex is in development have the decided to massively nerf the faction now.
I was about the only player left still taking GSC to majors and thats out the window now. Were they really so dominant they needed their entire gimmick thrown out?
As it stands for me my whole army concept is dead and buried with the removal of the deep strike intervention (I don't necessarily bum rush turn one but if I go second I certainly cant take two turns of shooting with my holding force before my ambush comes in vs any well put together gunline.)
Would it have been too much to let GSC retain their exemption until the codex then bring in those rules instead?

Well honestly, if they are planning on taking away the cult ambush table (which I think will happen) then who cares if they do it now or in a few months. I'd rather get used to playing without it. My guess is along with shuppets. They CLEARLY do not want turn 1 assaults to go off all over the table, and are even trying to mitigate all first turn alpha strikes. I would also bet on a generic 1cp per unit stratagem that gives us a free redeploy up the board like all the other infiltration stratagems turned into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh also I checked CA, our warlord trait simply gives units within 6" the ability to heroically intervene so yes we can exploit that FAQ ruling, that said it is a bit situational.

seeing as they never touch Da Jump turn 1 bomb I can see GSC getting something similar to that, maybe in a strategem. something like: at the end of your movement phase instead of moving take 1 GSC infantry unit on the table and set it anywhere on the table more then 9 inches away from enemy units. Maybe even limit it to only appearing near cover

Maybe we will get a stratagem that recycles a unit like tide of traitors, who knows. I wouldn't read much into Da Jump though, that book has been in a massive overhaul as well and comes out any week now so why bother FAQ ing it now when the book will get one 2 weeks after it finally hits.

Losing first turn ambushes sucks but honestly most of my ambushing was on turn 2 anyway since I waited for my opponent to move his stuff so that I could exploit an opening.

I also really like the Cover stratagem. Now our Goliaths actually have a 3+ save and I can deploy my Neophytes a bit more forward even if there isn't any terrain.

I wonder if we'll get separate cults with army rules, and one of them might just be "can still first turn ambush". Allowing the army to play how it always has but also letting you trade out for something else


or maybe it's just gone for good. Would absolutely suck if our army rule was "unreliable deepstrike" however, and it seems unlikely they will just toss the ambush table since it's the most iconic thing about the army's playstyle.