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Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

If you are running a list that makes heavy use of strategic reserves, the deceiver is clutch as he will save you a ton of CP. In that instance, he is well pointed. Outside of that, he's a waste of points. When there are far better or cheaper options.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
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Made in us
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TheNEWnew wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The deceiver is essentially a t ctan that costs 75 points more for a pregame shuffle in your deployment zone. That is certainly not worth 75 points. His unique ability is okay but doesn't average any more average damage to a ld 8 target than most of the ctan abilities. He even loses out of ap-4 which is relevant flat 3(technically worse than d6 is more reliable).

To me he is a clear never pick. Save yourself 75 points and take the Tctan everytime over deceiver.

You already laid out really well the advantages the void and nightbringer have. Clearly the nightbringer is much better in melee - but only vs t6+ (basically vehicals which aren't only rare they are also much faster than ctans and aren't in melee with them unless they want to be) Custodians/ gravis/ harlequins. Ctan and void are pretty much equal except for the 3 additional 1 damage attacks (not really sweating that). Ofc this is all assuming you chose to take 2 powers on the tctan for your fractured personality.

More or less I can see the +75 points being worth it for the night bringer - it is worth what you get. IMO it is just not worth it at the end in your army comp. If they have a primarch level character night bringer is worth it for sure. If the strongest character they have is a primaris captain or harliquen troop master...it is not going to make a lick of difference and youd probably do better with more long range powers anyways.

Havnt tried the tctan yet but he is a lot easier to sneak into a list and will still have a big impact. I think it is wise to just pick the 2 powers personality and take slightly less melee for a -75 point price tag.


You are glossing over a lot of details and underselling things here that are making a significant difference. For instance, the Nightbringer is not only better in melee vs T6. He has the sweep attacks and ignores Invulnerable saves and FNP saves. This is a huge distinction and makes him significantly better against Everything than a T.Ctan shard. You are also overselling the speed of vehicles. Most may be faster, but with the smaller board size, it's still relatively easy to get into melee with most vehicles.

The C'tan and Void are also not pretty much equal... The Void Dragon has +1 to his save, a shooting attack and +3 Strength for his melee attacks. Again, these are significant differences that you are underselling the impact of. That's not even factoring in the bonus' he gets to Vehicles. The Tailblades is a minor bonus, but there are significantly more distinctions between the two.
I am not glossing over. Just assuming you are going to spend 2 cp for ignore invune saves if you need it. Can't ignore the FNP like night bringer. however if you are dropping 3ish d6 damage on a unit with ap-4 no saves. You are going to annihilate them regardless more often than not. It can get expensive but You only pay it once you are in there and probably winning. Where as nightbringer prepays in raw points for this ability whether you are blown up or not. I've already conceded the nightbringer has very good abilities. Why even mention +1 to save though? It is irrelevant.

The powers are roughly equal in their damage output. +1 to wound in melee (sometimes) with 3 trash attacks and a 12" lascannon and a situational healing ability isn't worth +75 points. It's worth maybe 30-40.
The night bringer get his worth in value and then some probably for +75. However he is still 9 W with many army capable of killing him in 2 turns before he gets significant damage off.
Deceiver is just bad.

Also IMO - the transcended is also a bit overcosted. Though it is difficult to price the necrodermis value. I've found it pretty easy to play against myself though. You ether have the tools to deal with it and you remove a 350 point model pretty easy and your opponent is really sad. Or you don't and just ignore it until you can't anymore. I find the real issue with the Ctan is their limited movement. They are very easy to avoid and clog up.

Correction - 80 points.


Again, you are underselling the Void Dragon's abilities. Wounding T4 on a 2+ and T6-T8 on a 3+ is a large swing, and these are not "Trash" attacks, They're D6 damage. The Spear shooting attack is not a Lascannon in any form. You can the spear to snipe characters, and hit multiple units. Finally, there is still plenty of AP 0 shooting in the game, the save is still relevant. You get all of this and then the bonus' vs vehicles tacked on, it is well worth the 75 points.


You guys make some interesting and valid points for sure, IMO whether they're worth the points difference or not depends on the role the units have in your army. Really simplified and boiled down to their purest forms, the void dragon is better at killing vehicles, the nightbringer is better at killing characters, while the c'tan fields a more universal role. For the points, I actually think its easier to get value out of the c'tan, you certainly don't have to build around it as much to get maximum value out of it.

For example, I don't really care if the c'tan gets bogged down by a unit of ork boyz, it's gonna do good damage to them, and be a pain to deal with in return; but I'd be more annoyed if the same thing happened to the nightbringer while Ghaz was stood there laughing you know. Don't get me wrong, for 80pts extra I certainly think you get a better profile for the void and nightbringer, I just think its trickier to maximise their efficiency.


Not to go against what I am saying but Nightbringer can 1 shot ghaz. One of the only units in the game that can do so - because he ignores rules that ignore wounds. That is a near feature but really isn't likely to ever come into play. It would be a serious misplay to put ghaz into nightbringer unless he was down to 3 wounds already. Ignore FNP will come into play and is really what makes him special apart from typically wounding on 2's and at worst 3's. A space marine captain or a solitaire? It makes no difference whether it is a Tctan or a night bringer you are going to 1 shot them without effort on ether one. That is the principle point I am making. That and also the range on the tctans spells can be a big advance as well to go along with an 80 point savings.

The original point was I had heard you should basically never consider the transcended and just bring a named Ctan. I disagree with that. Tctan has a lot going for it between all the Ctan choices. Also coming into it with the mind set that CP is pretty plentyful for the crons.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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A tctan has pretty decent odds to whiff at killing a 5 wound 4++ model with any sort of additional defense (- to hit, fnp, etc.).
IMO the nightbringer is the only ctan that can reliably delete something in melee
   
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St. Louis, MO

bort123 wrote:
A tctan has pretty decent odds to whiff at killing a 5 wound 4++ model with any sort of additional defense (- to hit, fnp, etc.).
IMO the nightbringer is the only ctan that can reliably delete something in melee


With the strat to ignore invulnerable saves, any C'tan can punk said model fairly easily if it's t5 or less and doesn't come with additional defense.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in ca
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SoCal

Exactly this, spending the CPs for the strat makes any of them relatively nasty in CC. I'm loving the Void Dragon for both killing vehicles, and with the strat, murdering characters.

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The void dragon is such a cool model, I'm glad its getting a proper look in; have seen it cropping up a little more frequently in lists too.

It surprised me at first because vehicles really aren't as popular anymore, outside of dedicated transports and things like dreadnaughts, you just don't see that many. But like you guys say, its actually got decent versatility.

I cant help but wonder though, for the same pts cost you could run 5 lokhust heavy destroyers. On paper you'd lose the mortal wounds and CC efficiency but you'd get substantially more wounds in terms of durability, plus a higher max damage output if you're running gauss destructors.

Obviously CC is big in 9th and LHDs suck in that regard but I'd be interested to see what you guys would consider as the generally more viable option.

Personally I think LHDs are still a little overcosted but are actually pretty underrated, they're damn efficient at killing MEQ

   
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Been Around the Block




Ok soooo.... the sentinel construct rule of the doomstalker...
Is it free? Do you have to pay a cp for each doomstalker in range?
Can you only do it if the unit that is being charged pays a cp to overwatch?
Why can't they specify this in the rule?

I played it that they can shoot if the unit that is being charged pays a cp to overwatch
Also because you can only use a stratagem once a turn...

Can someone help me how you use it correctly (why is it not faqed?)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/30 22:38:11


 
   
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Germany

Its free to fire overwatch with the doomstalker, overwatch stratagem is not required. Note that you can only fire overwatch when the doomstalker remain stationary in its previous movement phase, because the high power profile is used, and you can only use that when the unit didnt move in its previous movement phase.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/31 06:34:08


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 p5freak wrote:
Its free to fire overwatch with the doomstalker, overwatch stratagem is not required. Note that you can only fire overwatch when the doomstalker remain stationary in its previous movement phase, because the high power profile is used, and you can only use that when the unit didnt move in its previous movement phase.


The Doomstalker "Sentinel Construct" rule makes no mention of the unit having to remain stationary in order to use this ability. It specifically states " Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile". There is no mention on the ability that it has to remain stationary, the weapon itself has this mention, however this is only when firing it normally. The Sentinel Construct rule overrides it.

Otherwise the Sentinel Construct rule would have provision to fire the low power profile unless the doomstalker had remained stationary and then it could use the highpower; or say something like "it may fire only with its doomsday blaster using its normal profile" etc...





Lore wise the unit clearly reserves a chunk of power specifically to retaliate with. If it wants to then fire high power in an offensive nature it has to reserve extra power ontop of that already reserved for retaliation fire. Hence it has to stop moving to conserve power. It's an interesting take on a unit that in theory is artillery, but has turned it into a retaliation ability not simply a long range offensive shot.

   
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Germany

 Overread wrote:


The Doomstalker "Sentinel Construct" rule makes no mention of the unit having to remain stationary in order to use this ability. It specifically states " Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile". There is no mention on the ability that it has to remain stationary, the weapon itself has this mention, however this is only when firing it normally. The Sentinel Construct rule overrides it.


No, the gun rule is not overridden by sentinel construct.
   
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Canada

 p5freak wrote:
 Overread wrote:


The Doomstalker "Sentinel Construct" rule makes no mention of the unit having to remain stationary in order to use this ability. It specifically states " Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile". There is no mention on the ability that it has to remain stationary, the weapon itself has this mention, however this is only when firing it normally. The Sentinel Construct rule overrides it.


No, the gun rule is not overridden by sentinel construct.


Perhaps this belongs in YMDC, but the Ability stating "Each time this model fires Overwatch it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile" certainly overides the weapon rule. The ability says "each time" - it is being specific. Otherwise why say "each time?"

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United States

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Overread wrote:


The Doomstalker "Sentinel Construct" rule makes no mention of the unit having to remain stationary in order to use this ability. It specifically states " Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile". There is no mention on the ability that it has to remain stationary, the weapon itself has this mention, however this is only when firing it normally. The Sentinel Construct rule overrides it.


No, the gun rule is not overridden by sentinel construct.


Perhaps this belongs in YMDC, but the Ability stating "Each time this model fires Overwatch it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile" certainly overides the weapon rule. The ability says "each time" - it is being specific. Otherwise why say "each time?"


Yeah. I agree. If the weapon rule was not overridden I would think it would be worded very differently. The strat wouldn't specify the high power profile. It would say either 1. nothing about the profiles, allowing either to be used, depending upon if the model moved/stayed stationary or 2. The strat would state it could only be used if the model was stationary.
Specifically stating the more powerful profile is used is only necessary/useful if it's overriding the weapon rule.
   
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TangoTwoBravo wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Overread wrote:


The Doomstalker "Sentinel Construct" rule makes no mention of the unit having to remain stationary in order to use this ability. It specifically states " Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile". There is no mention on the ability that it has to remain stationary, the weapon itself has this mention, however this is only when firing it normally. The Sentinel Construct rule overrides it.


No, the gun rule is not overridden by sentinel construct.


Perhaps this belongs in YMDC, but the Ability stating "Each time this model fires Overwatch it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile" certainly overides the weapon rule. The ability says "each time" - it is being specific. Otherwise why say "each time?"


Yeah, the wording is very specific. It most definitely overrides the gun rule.

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Hamburg

Well, I guess a Silent King is run with lots of Warriors.
I'd like to field 3x20 Warriors and possibly 2x5 Praetorians which can by buffed by the SK.
This army would need some fire support and some more cc support.

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Hamburg

 p5freak wrote:
Current competitive necron lists are ~50 warriors with the silent king, technomancer, chronomancer, ghost ark. In addition, some have spyders and scarabs, some have skorpekh lords and skorpekh destroyers.

How is such an army played?

Say you have 3x20 Warriors.
Then you could organize a phalanx with 2x20 Warriors with the SK in the center buffing them.
The Skropekhs could countercharge any unit threatening your front ranks.
The third block of Warriors could be teleported via VoD to get behind enemy front ranks attacking a weak enemy spot.
Not sure if this will really work. Looks a bit too one-dimensional / predictable.

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Regular Dakkanaut




 wuestenfux wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Current competitive necron lists are ~50 warriors with the silent king, technomancer, chronomancer, ghost ark. In addition, some have spyders and scarabs, some have skorpekh lords and skorpekh destroyers.

How is such an army played?

Say you have 3x20 Warriors.
Then you could organize a phalanx with 2x20 Warriors with the SK in the center buffing them.
The Skropekhs could countercharge any unit threatening your front ranks.
The third block of Warriors could be teleported via VoD to get behind enemy front ranks attacking a weak enemy spot.
Not sure if this will really work. Looks a bit too one-dimensional / predictable.


I feel like your main concern with this army archetype is that it doesn't kill stuff. Bare in mind that 40k is a points based game and the way these warrior spam lists approach the game makes them fantastic at gumming up objectives.

If you want to see how that style of army is played then check out the Art of War 40k youtube channel. They've got a couple of good battles where the SK is run with a block of 50 warriors. And believe me the list is still pretty killy

It's far from the only necrons play style though. Theres lists out there which have gone in the opposite direction and have still seen success. They run things like 12 skorphekhs, 12 wraiths, the nightbringer and void dragon as their base.

The codex is pretty balanced, so what I'm saying is that theres plenty of scope for you to work out your own play style and probably see some success with it

   
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10 gauss/reaper warriors in a ghost arch is solid - though you can leave out the 10 warriors or even use immortals instead (especially if you are going to veil a 20 man to the front and walk up or outflank another) 5 Immortals probably work better in the ghost arch anyways as they can hold a backfield objective better and are cheaper. Even a 10 man immortal has work well out of a ghost arch for me.

Not sure why youd bring 3 20 man warriors though...That is just too much of your army not dealing damage and 20 man warriors do not do well unless they have chrono buff and some regeneration support - you can really only support 2 max and only 1 really well.

Tomb blades work better than a 3rd brick of warriors as they get themselves into position - have better range and overall better durability too.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Germany

 Xenomancers wrote:
10 gauss/reaper warriors in a ghost arch is solid - though you can leave out the 10 warriors or even use immortals instead (especially if you are going to veil a 20 man to the front and walk up or outflank another) 5 Immortals probably work better in the ghost arch anyways as they can hold a backfield objective better and are cheaper. Even a 10 man immortal has work well out of a ghost arch for me.


You cant put immortals in ghost arks.
   
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 p5freak wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
10 gauss/reaper warriors in a ghost arch is solid - though you can leave out the 10 warriors or even use immortals instead (especially if you are going to veil a 20 man to the front and walk up or outflank another) 5 Immortals probably work better in the ghost arch anyways as they can hold a backfield objective better and are cheaper. Even a 10 man immortal has work well out of a ghost arch for me.


You cant put immortals in ghost arks.

Yeah you right - Thought it said dynasty infantry but it says infantry character. Pretty dumb. Can carry 10 overlords but can't carry 10 immortals? Oh well. I cheated that game by accident.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Germany

A ghost ark can carry 10 skorpekh lords, but not 5 immortals, thats GW Logic, makes a lot of sense.
   
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Yeah, for every non-Character unit except Warriors, our only transport is the Night Scythe. Not that Reaper Warriors in a Ghost Ark isn't a strong mid-board threat.

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Nebraska, USA

Yo hol' da phone...

New faq in general rules:
*Page 91 – Rare Rules Repositioned and Replacement Units
Add the following point to this box out:
‘9. If that unit was performing an action, that action
immediately fails.

Does this technically mean if any models RP, that unit fails the action?

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yo hol' da phone...

New faq in general rules:
*Page 91 – Rare Rules Repositioned and Replacement Units
Add the following point to this box out:
‘9. If that unit was performing an action, that action
immediately fails.

Does this technically mean if any models RP, that unit fails the action?
Surely that would mean things like VoD, Da Jump, and that Aeldari Skyleap thing, not Reanimation. If it includes reanimation we are legitimately a non-contender effective immediately.

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Reanimator got a drop to 80 points, still pretty bad. Needs better stats or to be a character or something honestly.

NB going up 20 points is pretty minor, but a nerf none the less.

I was really hoping to see some points drops across a lot of our non-used units. I hope that will be in the Summer GT pack and Field Manual.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 IHateNids wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yo hol' da phone...

New faq in general rules:
*Page 91 – Rare Rules Repositioned and Replacement Units
Add the following point to this box out:
‘9. If that unit was performing an action, that action
immediately fails.

Does this technically mean if any models RP, that unit fails the action?
Surely that would mean things like VoD, Da Jump, and that Aeldari Skyleap thing, not Reanimation. If it includes reanimation we are legitimately a non-contender effective immediately.


yeah, that's my understanding,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/07 17:18:21


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im gonna take a straight quote from the goonhammer article

"Since many re-deploy effects happen in the Psychic Phase, and many Actions care about where you are when you complete the action, it was technically possible for you to start performing an action (mostly Deploy Scramblers) in a nice safe position then have a psyker yeet you across the board to tick off the completion in a hard to to reach spot like your opponent’s deployment zone. While very funny this didn’t seem likely to be intentional, and indeed it turns out not to be."

It wouldn't really affect VoD in most cases anyway as it happens during movement, whereas most actions occur at the end of the movement phase. So you can still veil then perform an action, you just cant perform an action and then veil.

Personally I'd say we don't have to worry about RP affecting this either. If you're really worried though come to an agreement with your opponent. I'd play something like if one of my units was performing an action, I wouldn't use RP to slingshot said unit across the board until the action was completed (but then its fair game!)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/09 12:19:02


 
   
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Now that the reanimator is 80 points I am going to try it out, as it should at least be worth its points. Plus it looks appealing on the table with several doomstalkers.
   
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Canada

I am new Necron player, having jumped on the Indomitus bandwagon. I took them to a four-round 1000 point tourney a few weeks ago and learned a lot. I have a 2000 point tourney coming up (when the Provincial lockdown lifts). Looking for some advice on HQs and using the Veil of Darkness.

I used an Overlord with Veil of Darkness and a Warrior squad with Reapers to good effect during the tourney. It put several opponents on the backfoot and let me play objectives. It also meant, though, that my Overlord was sometimes out of position for the rest of the game. At 2000 points I have some more units, including a Royal Warden. What are the thoughts of the more seasoned Necron Nobility here about giving the Veil to the Royal Warden? He would go with a fifteen-strong Warrior squad with Reapers. The Royal Warden shoots well enough to benefit as well, and if the Reaper-Warriors get charged he can Adaptive-Strategy them.

Thoughts?

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Warden is my go to plan for the Veil as he’s more expendable than the Overlord and as you said can get his escort back out of melee to keep shooting. Haven’t actually played any games yet however...

 
   
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TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I am new Necron player, having jumped on the Indomitus bandwagon. I took them to a four-round 1000 point tourney a few weeks ago and learned a lot. I have a 2000 point tourney coming up (when the Provincial lockdown lifts). Looking for some advice on HQs and using the Veil of Darkness.

I used an Overlord with Veil of Darkness and a Warrior squad with Reapers to good effect during the tourney. It put several opponents on the backfoot and let me play objectives. It also meant, though, that my Overlord was sometimes out of position for the rest of the game. At 2000 points I have some more units, including a Royal Warden. What are the thoughts of the more seasoned Necron Nobility here about giving the Veil to the Royal Warden? He would go with a fifteen-strong Warrior squad with Reapers. The Royal Warden shoots well enough to benefit as well, and if the Reaper-Warriors get charged he can Adaptive-Strategy them.

Thoughts?


I usually have my Veil on one of my crypteks. If I don't take a Voltaic staff on a Technomancer, I usually put it on them, otherwise a Chronomancer. I would say though if I was taking a Warden and not playing Mephrit that it would be a better home for the Veil in many cases.

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The Warden is looking good for the new Veil-carrier. It used to be best on a Cryptek (because cheap), but Crypteks are also super squishy. And as noted before, their Fall-Back-and-Shoot ability works very well with a large block of short-ranged shooting infantry.

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