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She's holding pretty tight to the red lines.

I'd rather not have a cake at all than a cake that disgusts me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
She's holding pretty tight to the red lines.

She'll cave in by the end. She has no spine.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well,well,well,well,well.
In news that doesn't surprise me in the least.
New report slams Project Fear's Brexit projections as pure horsegak:

So just to clarify... This is MSN posting an article from the Brexit-backing Telegraph newspaper, which cites a report, authored by a man who has stood as a UKIP candidate in a general election, published in a right-leaning magazine which noted Brexiteers Frank Field, Nigel Lawson and Michael Gove sits on the advisory board of.

You know who May reminds me of? Nichola Murray.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'd rather not have a cake at all than a cake that disgusts me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
She's holding pretty tight to the red lines.

She'll cave in by the end. She has no spine.

Cave in to the remainers (closet or otherwise) or the JRM-like hard brexiteers?

To the EU.

Theresa May.

The PM desperate to be PM, without actually doing what is required of a PM.

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well,well,well,well,well.
In news that doesn't surprise me in the least.
New report slams Project Fear's Brexit projections as pure horsegak:

So just to clarify... This is MSN posting an article from the Brexit-backing Telegraph newspaper, which cites a report, authored by a man who has stood as a UKIP candidate in a general election, published in a right-leaning magazine which noted Brexiteers Frank Field, Nigel Lawson and Michael Gove sits on the advisory board of.

I'm just the messenger, not the message.

Is there a message beyond "Group of people desparate for Brexit to happen about to publish thing they hope will convince the public Brexit not as bad as all reputable sources tell them it will" ?

Somehow you took that nothingball and ran with it all the way to the "You should blame Osborne for everything and here is the proof" touchline.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well,well,well,well,well.
In news that doesn't surprise me in the least.
New report slams Project Fear's Brexit projections as pure horsegak:

So just to clarify... This is MSN posting an article from the Brexit-backing Telegraph newspaper, which cites a report, authored by a man who has stood as a UKIP candidate in a general election, published in a right-leaning magazine which noted Brexiteers Frank Field, Nigel Lawson and Michael Gove sits on the advisory board of.

I'm just the messenger, not the message.

No, MSN is the messenger of the Daily Telegraph who is the messenger of Standpoint magazine who is the messenger of whatever bloke wrote the article.

When you get to that level of abstraction you own the stuff you've chosen to promulgate even further.

The article has the same problems as the last "Brexit is Great" article (you posted.)

1. The author has cherry picked some economic factors which he says are valuable indicators but they aren't necessarily.
2. Brexit hasn't happened yet anyway.
3. The worst predictions of Project Fear were avoided partly by the preparations and actions of the Bank of England to support the economy when the vote went wrong.
4. There have been bad effects even so, such as increased inflation.
5. There isn't anything positive. There's nothing Brexiteers can point to and say, here is clear evidence that Brexit is going to be great. All they can say is that so far it isn't as bad as the worst predictions.

All that being said, the Leave side of Brexit is mainly about identity politics, and economic arguments are relatively unimportant. This is part of why both sides keep talking past each other.

 Riquende wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well,well,well,well,well.
In news that doesn't surprise me in the least.
New report slams Project Fear's Brexit projections as pure horsegak:

So just to clarify... This is MSN posting an article from the Brexit-backing Telegraph newspaper, which cites a report, authored by a man who has stood as a UKIP candidate in a general election, published in a right-leaning magazine which noted Brexiteers Frank Field, Nigel Lawson and Michael Gove sits on the advisory board of.

Also Gove has had enough of experts. So we can either conclude the author isn't an expert in the area or Gove doesn't believe what is written in it!

In other news if Liverpool win the Champion League then most of Merseyside will probably join Klopp in not wanting to the leave the EU. That should be enough to win a new referendum!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/23/brexit-makes-no-sense-and-britain-should-vote-again-says-jurgen-klopp

It also appears that the Government is not really understanding the Windrush issue. They are now proposing that the Home Office is exempt from providing members of the public access to their own records

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/23/home-office-data-exemption-sparks-fears-of-renewed-windrush-scandals

So they are guarantueeing people UK citizenship if they can prove this, at the same time removing their ability to ask for evidence from the Home Office to prove this? So in essence the Home Office can determine whether to kick you out or not...

House of lords provide another blow to Mays Brexit, no to scrapping human rights section of EU law:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-rights-charter-uk-government-house-of-lords-withdrawal-bill-a8318731.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

What. The. Hell?

OK, I’m a Remainer, but I hope even the most ardent Brexiteers can see that a declaration of Human Rights has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with our membership of the EU. This is just a power grab by the Tories, which was exactly what everyone was concerned about when they started talking about using Henry the VIII rights to make “minor adjustments”.

Oh, and having some familiarity with the UK immigration system, human rights is one of the key criteria for a number of catagories. Like the right to be with your spouse/partner/child/parents and not be refused entry or deported away from them (a la Windrush).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
To the EU.

I think you are right (at least, I hope so!), she will have to cave in on the Customs Union and Single Market possibly by the end. Otherwise there is no solution to the Border issue, and the UK would be in violation of the GFA. That is, unless it gives special status to Northern Ireland, which May has also ruled out to keep her homophobe-bros online.

But it's not because she has no spine, that award has to go to Johnson, who'd rather complain from the sidelines than do the hard job. It's because the EU has all the cards and Britain is much weaker than the EU as a whole. It's just how the world works.

I do think there is a risk that if May agrees to it a CU, that the Hard Brexiteers will vote no confidence in her as a leader with the 1922 committee and she might be dethroned. But the thing is, I'm not sure any of the Hard Brexiteers really want to be in charge either - leadership of Britain is a poisoned chalice now that the country is so divided and any leader who takes over is likely to have a torrid time of it. That's how May has lasted so long, despite her obvious staggering incompetence.

Herzlos wrote:
House of lords provide another blow to Mays Brexit, no to scrapping human rights section of EU law:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-rights-charter-uk-government-house-of-lords-withdrawal-bill-a8318731.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

He said: “What happened to the mother of parliaments? What happened to the concept of the sovereignty of this parliament? We’re prepared, apparently, to abandon it in favour of a body of foreign law because we no longer trust ourselves to protect our own fundamental human rights. Is that what we’ve really come to? It is a shocking denouement.

“The idea that we’re going to have to cling on to a body of foreign law in order to maintain fundamental human rights in this country is simply astonishing. It would reflect not only a constitutional outrage but a total abdication of our responsibilities.”

Because the ECHR has never had to intervene in the UK. No. Not at all.

I don’t trust our government one millimetre on human rights. I trust our courts, but they are limited by the law, and if the UK government changes the law then courts must follow.

The ECHR is not part of the EU, it is part of the Council of Europe.

The UK is bound by the EU human rights directive because the EU is bound by the Council of Europe treaties on human rights.

If the UK leaves the EU, it will not leave the Council of Europe, and the government will have to create new legislation (presumably identical to the current legislation) to satisfy the UK's treaty obligations to the ECHR.

Statue of Millicent Fawcett was unveiled by a delegation led by Theresa May & Sadiq Khan in Parliament Square today, the first female statue there. lots of other people present, from Corbyn to Harman.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43868925



An important moment, I feel.

Excellent.

 Ketara wrote:
Statue of Millicent Fawcett was unveiled by a delegation led by Theresa May & Sadiq Khan in Parliament Square today, the first female statue there. lots of other people present, from Corbyn to Harman.

I'm glad they chose Fawcett for this over Pankhurst, the Suffragists had far more to do with women getting the vote than the Suffragettes imo.

Looking at who else has one, I'm kinda surprised that Aneurin Bevan doesn't have a statue. Maybe I've just spent too much time in Wales!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The ECHR is not part of the EU, it is part of the Council of Europe.

The UK is bound by the EU human rights directive because the EU is bound by the Council of Europe treaties on human rights.

If the UK leaves the EU, it will not leave the Council of Europe, and the government will have to create new legislation (presumably identical to the current legislation) to satisfy the UK's treaty obligations to the ECHR.

I know they are not linked, but the only reason I can see for wanting to scrap the current law, which basically amounts to “we will follow the European convention on human rights and be bound by rulings of the court”, is to dilute the law. Probably to remove all the annoying bits about it covering everyone, including foreigners and criminals and other such people the tabloid press don’t like.

I dunno.

Maybe it's another one of those odd shibboleths that Brexiteers cling to in defiance of the facts, like the blue passports and the fishing quotas, and May is just sucking up to the UKIP wing of the Tory Party.

...."To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:
I am made All things to all men, that I might by all means save some "


some first rate editorial work there indeed.

... still the royal baby will bring people together and





uh huh.

of course.

What on earth is going on here?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html

The pope's now involved? Italy willing to hospitalize Alfie and willing to grant citizenship?

O.o

If the papacy and the Italian Government is willing to take the kid to Rome, i dont see why the UK doctors and courts are putting up a fight.

 Crazyterran wrote:
If the papacy and the Italian Government is willing to take the kid to Rome, i dont see why the UK doctors and courts are putting up a fight.

Because the child is dead, for all intents and purposes. His brain is annihilated. He is being taken apart, rapidly, by an undiagnosed (and seemingly undiagnoseable by current medical science) disease, and if he is capable of feeling anything at all anymore, he is suffering. He cannot recover unless we discover how to rebuild braincells. No one who is offering to take him is offering to perform any more tests, let alone making any suggestion that they can even begin to think about healing him. What they are offering to do, is take money to move him to another hospital and not stop manually feeding him and making him breath. Every person talking about how the courts should 'give Alfie a chance' is woefully ignorant of the facts.

UK doctors and courts do not want to send a suffering child for whom any recovery is at this point impossible to be artificially kept alive for money and the eternal heartbreak of his parents.

 whembly wrote:
What on earth is going on here?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html

The pope's now involved? Italy willing to hospitalize Alfie and willing to grant citizenship?

O.o

basically it's Xtian fundies lying on social media.

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/989195747005476864

UK doctors and courts do not want to send a suffering child for whom any recovery is at this point impossible to be artificially kept alive for money and the eternal heartbreak of his parents.

Yea it's not like anyone on either side is trying to make him suffer, the Judge has looked impartially at the evidence and decided that it is cruel to continue extending the poor lad's life with no chance of improvement

What's made me most angry about this entire story is this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43867132

Regardless of what you think of this case, there are many other sick children in that hospital. This mob must be scaring them and their families. Not to mention the extra stress and abuse the staff are coming under. Appalling behaviour.

Also: "Earlier the supporters blocked the road outside the hospital for about 15 minutes, with an ambulance becoming trapped as traffic quickly backed up."

Okay it was let go but did they delay that ambulance even a bit? Delaying ambulance should be no-go. Maybe that was not on a mission or it was not high-priority case but what if it was imperitave that the ambulance reach hospital asap?

Protesting should be allowed but not in a way that causes harm to others nevermind risk other people's lives.

Regular posters here will no doubt be familiar with my tough stance on the crime that blights this great nation, so it gives me no pleasure to once again highlight an increase in crime!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43905407

As always, I'll probably be shot down in flames for posting black and white evidence. Again!

but we can't deny truth or facts here.

OAPs are cowering behind curtains, too frightened to walk the streets. Criminal gangs roam the streets with impunity.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/26/lordship-lane-the-london-road-paying-a-heavy-toll-for-gang-warfare

The courts and judges have their hands tied, and the Police seem unwilling to do anything about it

Normally, I would say the country's going to the dogs, but we're moving beyond that