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If not openly spelled out, it's heavily implied.

Anvilgard has a 'shadowy cabal' of Shadowblades, Scourge Privateers, Darkling Covens, and Ordo Serpentis basically running the joint but the Elves aren't wholly in charge.
The next closest is the Phoenicium, which is basically a 'lost' Elf city that's been brought back to life but still has tons of humans and Duardin running around.

Hm, I see your point.

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
I always felt that Stormcast Eternals was one of the factions that desperately need rework.
This became even more pronounced after the release of ossiarchs, tzeentch, seraphon and lumineth overlords.

Large number of warscrolls are from AoS "1.0" when points system did not even exist.
Most of the battlelines choices, paladins, dracothian guards, for example.
And despite the constant price drop via GHB, many of these units are still considered to be subpar.
Allegiance ability also pales in comparison to post-2019 battletomes.
And even the new GHB missions(Total Commitment, Better Part of Valour, Focal Points, Shifting Objectives) put Stormcasts at disadvantage mostly.

Nowadays it seems remotely-competitive stormcasts rely heavily on Seraphon Kroak.
The rest of the lists is more or less relegated to supporting tools for Kroak to survive and blast enemies with his own magic.
Even then Stormcasts seem to barely go 3-2 on tournaments, let alone 4-1 or 5-0.

I’m inclined to agree. They’re just lacking something rule wise atm that no amount of new minis can solve.

A friend of mine suggested that they should have a 6+ to hit double hit bonus, to represent lightning weapons. I don’t know about the viability of that but it certainly sounds fluffy.

I just assumed they are working on a SCE book right now lol.

OPEN ANOTHER CHAMBER!

I think a lot of Stormcast basic weapons should have rend but do not. I know the army has a lot of MW output but when so many units struggle against 4+ armor it really erodes the concept of how they are supposed to perform both in regards to fluff and mechanics. I also think they have far too many battalions that are just bad. In the fluff Stormcast are always kicking ass thanks to their formations and tactics with units overlapping and covering each other's weaknesses. Stuff represented in-game by battalions.


More priests outside the Relictor and some semblance of sub-faction balance wouldn't hurt either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hanskrampf wrote:
OPEN ANOTHER CHAMBER!

Of course, we all know THIS is what will actually happen

hopefully its the "Chamber Ordinarius" with all the regular non demi-gods in it.

Worth noting that the Lumineth book explicitly refers to what we're getting so far as "The Teclian Vanguard", the forces he's rallied to his banner as they move forward into the Mortal Realms to try to seal breaches in the fabric of reality.

Obviously Lumineth will feature in one of the upcoming campaign books, almost certainly with new models beside them.

I don't know, GW hasn't hinted at any new models for the Morathi book beyond the side game tie in models (Warcry set and Underworld set) and one new leader. That's not a lot of models to expand from.

Granted Psychic Awakening was broadly similar; though I'd argue that for PA most armies were due updates to old models since most 40K armies are quite extensive and diverse. Meanwhile many AoS armies (eg DoK) are very small in comparison (DoK only just gets away with having so few kits because the Cauldron gets split into multiple leaders and most of their other kits give them a duel build option. I'm actually surprised Dark Riders didn't make it into the army alongside Warlocks - though I suspect its because GW wanted to keep the core of the army female and an elite warlock unit works, but not a cavalry unit).

Age of Sigmar has been super weird in that it's the game that could, reasonably, most benefit from 'out of cycle' model releases for heroes or things like that...yet we don't really ever see it. Even the battleboxes get tied to books or other printed material!

Sidenote: the reason Dark Riders didn't make it into the army, from what I've seen bandied about, is that they felt the visual aesthetic was too closely tied to the Dark Elf Shadowblade(now Assassin) model.

Which makes the Shadowstalkers that much more entertaining. :-D

Lets not forget back then GW was going to make the whole Shadowblades into their own "army". They got the assassin (which was super sad its now resigned to only popping out of cities of sigmar units and not any allied unit) and dark riders and likely would have wound up with their own "Inquisition" style release. Of course that was way back at the start when GW was all about tiny factions and likely a vast amount of faction roll-over. Ergo gaining and losing factions all the time and short term faction support rather than long term army support.

DoK just got a new option via Underworlds, are getting a new unit via Warcry, and are getting another new unit in the Shadow & Pain box. I would not find it surprising if they did not get anything else model-wise in the campaign book. The book could be used as a patch on a battletome that has aged well and still works well on a lot of fronts.

Order as a faction is pretty much free cities and sigmarines. And the trees. The trees are on board ya'll

Every other faction in order is distinctly mercenary, shady, and/or seperate from any sort of actual alliance with Sigmar and his forces. It's a really weird faction

I wouldn't think of Order as a faction, its not. That would be like saying the Allies in WW2 were a single nation.

It's an alliance of many nations, some larger and some smaller. The Free Cities represents a big chunk of the non-chaos humanity and basically homeless aelves and dwarves. That said other factions that comprise it are by no means small. Daughters of Khaine are on the smaller side, but are also spread quite wide through the various Order realms. They also weathered the age of Chaos better than many other factions so didn't have as far to recover from.

Meanwhile Malarion has most of the Shadow Realm to himself and his Aelves, the only reason we've not heard or seen more is because the models aren't yet out.

The Luminoth are filling much of the Realm if Light, meanwhile the Seraphon have huge population ships in space and are now steady gaining ground as well. With their spawning pool breeding and Slaan mages chances are they were repopulate and grow quite significantly in a very short span of time.

Khadorans are everywhere. In fact far as I can tell trade in the Mortal Realms, especially between Realms, relies upon them almost exclusively. They have vast cities in the sky (Laputa Castle in the Sky style).

The Sylvaneth have the Realm of Life and vast holdings, even though its clear that Nurgle pushed very hard into those realms and did vast damage. Though their slower development of their ancients might make one think they are slower to repopulate, but don't forget they have rebirth and their lower ranks can repopulate quicker. It was more the shattered unity of the Everqueen going into hiding and being driven mad by Nurgles rot polluting the life link that she shares with the forests. That basically broke the back of their united war effort and let Nurgle run rampant until Sigmar's forces kicked them back and awoke the queen.


So broadly speaking most of the factions within Order have quite large chunks of land. If anything the Cities of Sigmar are actually the ones on the smaller side, were it not for the fact that some of their cities are truly vast. Even so the bulk of humanity in the Realms is devoted to the Chaos Gods. So if anything its Cities that are reliant on other major factions that survived or are repopulating in good order.


Of course population and size are hard to talk about in the realms and you can only sort of do it by comparison to others. Even a "small" faction might well have what we'd consider a vast kingdom and land and population.

I like that we forgot(hah! is just like the rules!) about the Idoneth, living in the seas of all the Realms(except maybe Azyr and the Realm of Chaos) after a bit of a split in their biggest nation(Ionrach) that drove some of them to leave Hysh.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I like that we forgot(hah! is just like the rules!) about the Idoneth, living in the seas of all the Realms(except maybe Azyr and the Realm of Chaos) after a bit of a split in their biggest nation(Ionrach) that drove some of them to leave Hysh.

The who?

What are you talking about, there's nothing in the seas save a few nyads and merpeople and sea serpents and the odd kraken.
Now get back to work fixing the net or you'll end up senile like your granddad, and father, and uncles, and brothers, and sisters, nices and well most of the extended family.

Sidenote:

I really want to know what/if they're going to add some more Akhelian King mounts. I'd love a giant monster mount.

I love the deepkin. It'll be great to see them get some better working rules. It also definitely seems like they're next.

And maybe some nicer dice
(They still have bucketsfull at WHW that they can't get rid of )

That is legitimately upsetting to hear. I loved the Idoneth dice, but I could only get a single set.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sidenote:

I really want to know what/if they're going to add some more Akhelian King mounts. I'd love a giant monster mount.

They certainly exist in the fluff. Better yet let's get an Akhelian Queen.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sidenote:

I really want to know what/if they're going to add some more Akhelian King mounts. I'd love a giant monster mount.

They certainly exist in the fluff. Better yet let's get an Akhelian Queen.

I honestly don't know how to do that, given the fluff surrounding it, justice without it feeling a bit too pander-y.

That might feel goofy as a statement, but it comes down simply to the description of Akhelian Queens being the same as the Akhelian Kings. The titles are interchangeable. Both ride Deepmares, both have the polearms or the greatblades, etc. Just one's female and one's male. I do wish there had been an option for a female in the Akhelian King kit. There definitely is within the kit for the Akhelian Guard models.

If there's a future monster mount, maybe it could come with parts to build either/or and they could match up with the Deepmare legs and weapon options?

 Overread wrote:
I wouldn't think of Order as a faction, its not. That would be like saying the Allies in WW2 were a single nation.

It's an alliance of many nations, some larger and some smaller. The Free Cities represents a big chunk of the non-chaos humanity and basically homeless aelves and dwarves. That said other factions that comprise it are by no means small. Daughters of Khaine are on the smaller side, but are also spread quite wide through the various Order realms. They also weathered the age of Chaos better than many other factions so didn't have as far to recover from.

Meanwhile Malarion has most of the Shadow Realm to himself and his Aelves, the only reason we've not heard or seen more is because the models aren't yet out.

The Luminoth are filling much of the Realm if Light, meanwhile the Seraphon have huge population ships in space and are now steady gaining ground as well. With their spawning pool breeding and Slaan mages chances are they were repopulate and grow quite significantly in a very short span of time.

Khadorans are everywhere. In fact far as I can tell trade in the Mortal Realms, especially between Realms, relies upon them almost exclusively. They have vast cities in the sky (Laputa Castle in the Sky style).

The Sylvaneth have the Realm of Life and vast holdings, even though its clear that Nurgle pushed very hard into those realms and did vast damage. Though their slower development of their ancients might make one think they are slower to repopulate, but don't forget they have rebirth and their lower ranks can repopulate quicker. It was more the shattered unity of the Everqueen going into hiding and being driven mad by Nurgles rot polluting the life link that she shares with the forests. That basically broke the back of their united war effort and let Nurgle run rampant until Sigmar's forces kicked them back and awoke the queen.


So broadly speaking most of the factions within Order have quite large chunks of land. If anything the Cities of Sigmar are actually the ones on the smaller side, were it not for the fact that some of their cities are truly vast. Even so the bulk of humanity in the Realms is devoted to the Chaos Gods. So if anything its Cities that are reliant on other major factions that survived or are repopulating in good order.


Of course population and size are hard to talk about in the realms and you can only sort of do it by comparison to others. Even a "small" faction might well have what we'd consider a vast kingdom and land and population.

But they're not even particularly an alliance. The Idoneth totally just go out and murder all the humans they want for souls pretty regularly. Their society is pretty much based around it.

The dwarf factions are both entirely mercenary and operate entirely independent of any order plans, having no goals really in common. That isn't an alliance.

The DoK alliance is kinda contrived.

And i'l not sure the twins have even talked to sigmar again.

Like, the some of these factions have about as much in common with the sigmarines and the free cities as orcs and ogres do.

All those factions will war against each other. They even war within each other as well. DoK Temples will plot, scheme and powerplay against each other; Cities of Sigmar will not stand united always; Dwarves will fight over resources and trade and old grudges; etc...


The key is to realise that all these bickering battles are swept aside when CHAOS rears its ugly head.

Furthermore these factions all build cities, civilisations and basically focus on sedentary lifestyles. Meanwhile the forces of Destruction, whilst they will build settlements, are much more focused on a continual raiding, fighting, closer to nomadic lifestyle.

They will still stand with Order against Chaos, but they stand apart in terms of their society at large.

It's much like how in older times the western powers of Europe would all war against each other; yet they'd all send armies united in the Crusades. Even if, again, it was for personal interest the enemy there was greater (the reward sweeter) than fighting over the same lands at home.



They are not continual alliances, they are alliances of war and convenience and suchlike. Plus in part they represent Alliances of the Gods. The very top of the power structure for any one faction is allied with the others, even if the underling mortals fight and war and compete with each other.

The Idoneth still worship their creator, they will still stand when ordered against Chaos. The "minions" will obey the gods and go to war (more or less); even if they fight with each other over time.



To the Gods and their Great Game on the board it doesn't matter "as much" which pieces hold which bits of land, the more important thing is that the land is held by non-chaos forces and that the front line continues to push forward. The interplay of specifically who owns what is more a case of personal power struggles and egos and such.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sidenote:

I really want to know what/if they're going to add some more Akhelian King mounts. I'd love a giant monster mount.

They certainly exist in the fluff. Better yet let's get an Akhelian Queen.

I honestly don't know how to do that, given the fluff surrounding it, justice without it feeling a bit too pander-y.

That might feel goofy as a statement, but it comes down simply to the description of Akhelian Queens being the same as the Akhelian Kings. The titles are interchangeable. Both ride Deepmares, both have the polearms or the greatblades, etc. Just one's female and one's male. I do wish there had been an option for a female in the Akhelian King kit. There definitely is within the kit for the Akhelian Guard models.

If there's a future monster mount, maybe it could come with parts to build either/or and they could match up with the Deepmare legs and weapon options?

Apologies, I was unclear. I mean let us get an alternate mount option for the Akhelian King, just have a Queen riding it instead. Same rider weapon, same command ability, just different stats for the mount.

I got what you meant, and I think 'pander-y' might have been the wrong term to use there but I couldn't think of a better term at the time. I want to see a new mount but I don't want to see it be tied specifically to an Akhelian Queen. I feel like that would be a bit gimmicky, especially in light of the battletome telling us that the Kings and Queens go through the same ordeals to reach their status.

I'd just really like to see them set up the kits so the torsos can be interchanged. Don't know if you have built the Akhelian King kit, but a torso designed to mesh with the legs and the way they're built and the 'half-attached weapon arm'? Something like that, which would be compatible with multiple kits would be a dream for me. It'd mean I could set up an Akhelian Queen on Deepmare and this new mount plus an Akhelian King on the same.

Would be even cooler if the torsos had a slightly different posing for the polearm/sword arm though.

Ah, I see. That is a really cool idea. I never thought about backwards compatibility being used like that. Expanding that concept could do things like adding weapon options to units without a full kit update.

It wasn't helpful that last night Dakka was acting up when I made the post, so I never really had a chance to reread it afterwards/edit it to clarify my statement a bit more as the site wasn't loading right for a bit.

Sadly it's more likely that they go "Look, here's an Akhelian Queen on this new mount!" and then a monster mount comes much later, with options for both King/Queen.
It's kinda funny that they don't do more of that, as the Drukhari got that via their vehicles and the like for crew figures.

Well of course they wanted to make sure there was a crew option with a nice wrack.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sidenote:

I really want to know what/if they're going to add some more Akhelian King mounts. I'd love a giant monster mount.

They certainly exist in the fluff. Better yet let's get an Akhelian Queen.

I'd love to get a queen riding a big ass shark like in the Court of the Blind King.