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It looks like I was wrong about Greenskinz and that makes me sad.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If they remove the Isle of Blood HE stuff, it kills the Swifthawk Agents as a faction.

Currently the faction is:
-Skywarden(Skycutter mounted Hero--which is annoying because the guy can be built on foot as well)
-Skycutter
-High Warden on Griffon
-Shadow Warriors
-Spireguard
-Reavers
-Chariot

Out of those 7 units, only 3(Skywarden/Skycutter are the same kit) are currently able to even be purchased!

Come to think of it, the Skycutter is also solid in the AoS lore. The Idoneth Deepkin were introduced via stories of Skycutters and Swifthawk Agent networks reporting on the undersea aelves. I don't think GW is concerned about making the elf sub-groups standalone-able. The whole point of the Cities of Sigmar is to emphasize that these are cities with mixed demographics. I do hope that there are elf battleine units so I can make a pure elf army. I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining Swifthawk units occupy only the "Other" battlefield role. It's all speculation right now, though, so we wait for the announcements and the book.

So updated the first post with today's news and as a result the counts are VERY interesting now

No Battletome - 2
Old Battletome - 5
2.0 compatible Battletome - 18

This includes the two new announced battletomes (Orruks and Free Cities), but excludes the hinted at (rumour/word of mouth) Ogors Battletome.
In addition I'm not including any Aelves in that count as we are not fully certain which Aelves are in the Free Cities nor if any are going to get a duel role (feature in two armies) nor which are to be removed. So I've just left them out of the count.

Suffice it to say that right now there's only 7 battletomes required to get all of AoS onto 2.0 and of those there's a high chance of two combined tomes which takes the count down to just 5!
(Slaves to Darkness + Everchosen - Gutbusters + Beastclaw Raiders)

5 Tomes ontop of the 2 we know of means 7 Tomes - That's a number GW could release between now and Christmas and even if they don't it means only cutting one or two months into 2020 to get all of AoS upgrade to 2.0 compatible Battletomes. This is a fantastic thing for AoS though the Free Cities battletome is going to be a very interesting thing to see how it all functions. It could be the fantastic clean up that does work with the lore; and also makes Order a more manageable chunk of models; but if too many are lost and if GW mess it up it could also be a very messy Tome. A lot rides on this one; there's a lto of classic human, elf and dwarven armies and thus collectors and customers wrapped up in that one release.

I don't really expect many more model kits to be cut, more like warscrolls for kits that have been cut already moving to Legends.

After the news broke that some Order kits will be getting the axe, I looked through their roster and took an educated guess on what they’ll lose*. None of this is particularly groundbreaking or Nostrodamus-esque, just some educated guessing and some blatant wishlisting in regards to shuffling units into different factions to get rid of the faction bloat and such.

In no particular order:

Dispossessed

-Warriors/Thunderers/Quarrelers will get the axe. Too generic and they share none of the design that was put into the newer elite Dwarf kits or characters. They look extremely dated when next to the Hammerer/Ironbreaker kits.

Wanderers

-Glade Guard. Same as the above dwarf kits. Their mounted versions were axed at the birth of AoS as well if I remember correctly.
-Probably eliminate redundancy in the Finecast characters.
-Shadow Warriors would take the Glade Guard spot. Their kitbuild variant, Sisters of the Watch, are already in the Wanderers roster as well.

Lion Rangers

-White Lions infantry recently discontinued, so there’s that.
-Stands to reason that the Chariot will follow soon, as well as its variant build having no aesthetic link to any other faction (High Elf kits that it was related to are all gone, save maybe a few characters)

Swifthawk Agents

-Barring a re-re-release of Isle of Blood, their infantry(Spireguard) as well as their cavalry (Reavers) are already gone, so I think this “faction” will be cut altogether.
-Their chariot will go whichever way the White Lion chariot goes.
-Shadow Warriors will get rolled into some other faction, maybe. As a dual kit in another faction, they may survive. Maybe take over for Glade Guard, if they are cut?
-Skycutter/Sky Warden will get the axe,there is really nothing that its linked to designwise.

Shadowblades

-Rolled into something else. If Darkling Covens survive the cull, they’d work there, with Assassins as the personal henchmen of the Sorceress and the Dark Riders as their scouts/messengers. Dark Riders could work in Order Draconis as squires. These kits should have been rolled into the Daughters of Khaine book, imo. The variant build of the Dark Riders were, ffs.

Order Serpentis/Order Draconis

-There is some overlap between these two. Might even call it bloat? Thematically different, but essentially the same thing divided along the defunct Dark/High Elf lines. If any had to go, I’d say its Darconis (High Elf), as I’d bet the Serpentis stuff sells better, and it still has alot of similiar designed kits in the range. Definitely better sculpts in Order Serpentis, imo.

Eldritch Council

-Axe this faction or combine it with the Collegiate Arcane or Order Draconis, as they share the dragon kit.
-Their infantry and sole batteline, Swordmasters, are Finecast. Not looking good for them.

Ironweld

-Cannon/Organ gun is designed as complimentary to the Dispossessed Duardin Warriors. If they go, these will follow.
- Irondrakes move to Ironweld. Seems silly that dudes carrying flamethrowers aren’t part of the ‘artillery” faction.

Darkling Covens

-These seem safe, as they have popular kits, and their High Elf mirror units were axed at the birth of AoS. They get GHB love, so thats also a good sign.
-Always felt that the Black Guard/Executioners and and maybe Sorceress kits should have gone into the Daughters of Khaine book.
-The Darkshards/Dreadspears/Bleakswords should get rolled into Order Serpentis as the footmen of the elite Knight class. Which would essentially
give Order Serpentis most of the roster that Dark Elves had in WHFB, but I’m cool with that.

Scourge Privateers

-Think these guys will be safe as well, despite their limited roster, though they should get the Hydra back from Order Serpentis.

Phoenix Temple

-Probably safe.
- I think Sisters of the Watch should get rolled into this faction as the female members of the temple. They have flaming bows and arrows, so depending on how they are painted, could be like a mirror to the Flamespyre/Frostheart Phoenix.

I think some of this culling should have been done 4 years ago, and I also think(as most do) GW screwed up with dividing up the factions like they did and this Free Peoples book is their latest attempt to fix it.

I believe the fate of many of the Aelf kits will hinge on what they do for Malerion/Tyrion/Teclis and their followers.

What does everyone think of the elimination list? Off the mark or did I miss anything?

And my wishlisting for combining/moving around units into other factions?

*Though they still sell the Zombie kit that probably pre-dates the Kirby era, so who the feth really knows what they are thinking when cutting/keeping their kits.

That zombie kit was around when I got my first undead models in 1998.

At my local community it literally goes without saying that anyone wanting to use zombies gets the mantic ones.

Same here. I don't think I've ever seen the GW kit in use.

That's because they are terrible. I remember when they came out. They weren't even great then, and didn't age well at all. I think those are the oldest plastic kits now that are still in production (they are older than the Khorne Berserkers), but not the oldest period (that would be IIRC Ragnar Blackmane who I think came out at the end of Rogue Trader/early 2nd edition!)

Yeah they are one of the few really old kits that just doesn't look good at all by modern standards. Then again AoS has a lot of legacy stuff kicking around, though at least some of the metal (eg skaven) still looks darn good even years later!

Wayniac wrote:
That's because they are terrible. I remember when they came out. They weren't even great then, and didn't age well at all. I think those are the oldest plastic kits now that are still in production (they are older than the Khorne Berserkers), but not the oldest period (that would be IIRC Ragnar Blackmane who I think came out at the end of Rogue Trader/early 2nd edition!)

At least they look better than the plastic rat ogres!

Well, older rat ogres. I have two from island of Blood, and those are awesome sculpts.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Well, older rat ogres. I have two from island of Blood, and those are awesome sculpts.

True, but you know the ones I am talking about...

Talking about the current state of Sigmar, how are the goblins going? I have a few and the book and want to flesh my force out more for them.

Goblins are a fun book, and ride about the middle of the pack in terms of power. A "B" list.

IMO Gloomspite is one of the best battletomes they have put out. The allegiance ability is a bit swingy but definitely fun, and there's a huge unit roster with plenty of room for themed forces. Arachnaroks just got a bit of a point decrease, alleviating the main element of the book that was sub-par. I would say the rockguts stand out as being overpowered; they got a point decrease they mathematically did not need. 60-man stabba squads are also a bit op but that is countered by the impracticality of using that many models, and many armies have anti-horde tools to negate their advantage.

Ah great, as long as they’re fun and can somewhat compete I’m happy. The models look ace and just scream enjoyment. Them and the new Free Cities book coming soon have me getting back into Sigmar.

Looks like the trimming has begun.

Per US site:

Glade Guard have joined the White Lions as No longer available.
Darkling Coven stuff temporarily out of stock.
Freeguild General dual foot/horse kit and Cannon/Organ Gun No longer available.
Gyrocopter/Bomber temporarily out of stock.
War Altar/ Flagellants temporarily out of stock.
Dragon Noble dual foot/horse kit temporarily out of stock.

The temporary stuff is most likely rebasing/reboxing.

UK site still only lists the White Lions in No Longer for Sale, though I can see glade guard joining them logically - they are a much older kit and the Aelves have quite a few archery units that are much more modern plastics.

Us site might also confuse the pattern because its going to have local stock issues arise faster than the UK site (same for any overseas really). So some "out of stock" might be rebasing but could also just be local shortage.

Would be very surprised to see the General kit go, and reasonably surprised to see the cannon/organ gun go. Glade guard I won't be sad to see go; when I actually got to see the kit in person I realized it has not aged well, they look very stiff and misproportioned.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Would be very surprised to see the General kit go, and reasonably surprised to see the cannon/organ gun go. Glade guard I won't be sad to see go; when I actually got to see the kit in person I realized it has not aged well, they look very stiff and misproportioned.

Frankly, that's because the instructions for them were always garbage and people weren't assembling the kits right. They're a kit that really requires someone to actually put a little bit of TLC into the models...or just a new kit period.

I'm not holding my breath on Glade Guard going away though. People tend to forget that when things are Direct Only(Glade Guard and White Lions both are, as are the Wild Riders and other Wanderers items)? They don't actually come in a box other than a white mail order box.

Also, they literally stated that they would let us know what kits were going away...and it's important to note that Glade Guard are still one of those weird count boxes. It's 16/box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
UK site still only lists the White Lions in No Longer for Sale, though I can see glade guard joining them logically - they are a much older kit and the Aelves have quite a few archery units that are much more modern plastics.

There's two archer kits that "are much more modern plastics"...and one of them builds as waving swords around like ninnies.

Also, Glade Guard just really suffer from the cloak/head attachment point. It really needs someone to work a bit more on it. I've been slowly adding fur collars and a bit more cloak to make it work.

Us site might also confuse the pattern because its going to have local stock issues arise faster than the UK site (same for any overseas really). So some "out of stock" might be rebasing but could also just be local shortage.

See my above post regarding boxes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Would be very surprised to see the General kit go,

I think they’re getting rid of it to put the focus on the Griffon General.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
and reasonably surprised to see the cannon/organ gun go.

Well, as I said in my larger post above, I think they are doing away with the more generic stuff and/or abandoning that style of Dwarf miniature. They had already axed the Finecast characters who were designed to match them, as well as the miners. I don’t believe that era of Dwarf miniatures are long for this world. Wouldn’t be shocked to see the Warrior/Thunderer/Quarreler kit follow shortly. Think of it like the Greenskinz all over again.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Glade guard I won't be sad to see go; when I actually got to see the kit in person I realized it has not aged well, they look very stiff and misproportioned.

I think they only lasted so long because of an excess stock.

I wouldn't put too much in the labels "Temporarily out of Stock" and "No longer available" as a lot of kits have had both labels and then returned. Usually it is just reboxing and/or rebranding. Considering that they are now going to be putting a lot of units under a different moniker it might mean that a DB ID is no longer available, but might appear under a different name and faction soon. Only time will tell though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Would be very surprised to see the General kit go, and reasonably surprised to see the cannon/organ gun go. Glade guard I won't be sad to see go; when I actually got to see the kit in person I realized it has not aged well, they look very stiff and misproportioned.

Frankly, that's because the instructions for them were always garbage and people weren't assembling the kits right.

I was assembling them myself; it was definitely the kit.

GW did say they'd let us know; but at the same time if a kit is going off sale and they run out of stock and one of the reasons it was going off-sale was the mould braking/wearing out then some might vanish early as you can bet since the new Tome was announced sales will have gone up.

Both from those getting ready and those wanting to complete armies and get models before any wave of sales when GW announces formally what is going.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Would be very surprised to see the General kit go, and reasonably surprised to see the cannon/organ gun go. Glade guard I won't be sad to see go; when I actually got to see the kit in person I realized it has not aged well, they look very stiff and misproportioned.

Frankly, that's because the instructions for them were always garbage and people weren't assembling the kits right.

I was assembling them myself; it was definitely the kit.

What year did the instructions say?

The mould most definitely has not aged well. Any pre-2012 are in good shape though, but as I mentioned one of the things that really held the kit back was the join spot for the head/cloak.
Also, some leg/torso combinations just don't work. You can definitely spot which ones were intended to be used to build Scouts.

Unfortunately I cannot recall the year on the instructions.

 Overread wrote:
GW did say they'd let us know; but at the same time if a kit is going off sale and they run out of stock and one of the reasons it was going off-sale was the mould braking/wearing out then some might vanish early as you can bet since the new Tome was announced sales will have gone up.

Both from those getting ready and those wanting to complete armies and get models before any wave of sales when GW announces formally what is going.

Possibilities. For what it's worth, found this Dakka thread on the sale notice topic: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/735949.page

Summary: stock control systems are "stupid" and rely on SKU key IDs. If an item's packaging, name, reference, sometimes price, or any number of things change the system won't know until a tech does a manual or batch change to a new key ID. This results in "no longer on sale" until the new stock and its ID are put in the system. Temporaily out of stock means the ID key stays, it's just out of stock. None of this means things are not being removed, but none of it means they are. I don't think GW's manufacturing is capable of making smooth transitions to new stock for most items, so this problem comes up.

We wait until GW makes its announcement on the matter, as they said they would. All else is speculation. I speculate only few items are cut for good. They stated warscrolls, not kits, will be removed. Could be a sly way to ease uncertainty, but I think it's just stuff that's been floating out there without miniatures in production, like Isle of Blood/Spire of Dawn items and old High Elf and other models like artillery that have non legends warscrolls but nothing for sale..

I'll be using my Spire of Dawn High Warden as a General on Griffon as that's exactly what it is. Reavers can be Outriders, Spireguard can be Archers or Guard, and if it comes to it, Swordmasters can be Greatswords. Swordmasters are baked into Core Rulebook Eldritch Council lore, though, so it'd be odd to see them go. I don't think White Lions are going away, too unique and full of opportunity. These things just need good rules to use them, which Cities of Sigmar can provide.

I'm just some person on the internet, though. I could be wrong.

Edit: I'm incorrect about the "warscroll only" statement. Re-read the Warhammer Community post and it mentions Order units leaving the range and moving to Legends. It is concerning that nothing in the post, from the images to the text, mentions any High Elf unit, even though they're baked into the lore. Wait and see.

I was soooo tempted last night. My local store has such a slow turnover, they not only had a couple copied of Skirmish (which I went there to buy a copy of, knowing they had them), but they even had a Greenskinz Start Collecting box still, and for 75 bucks.

Do I still need some more vanilla Orcs.....do I????

 nels1031 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Would be very surprised to see the General kit go,

I think they’re getting rid of it to put the focus on the Griffon General.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
and reasonably surprised to see the cannon/organ gun go.

Well, as I said in my larger post above, I think they are doing away with the more generic stuff and/or abandoning that style of Dwarf miniature. They had already axed the Finecast characters who were designed to match them, as well as the miners. I don’t believe that era of Dwarf miniatures are long for this world. Wouldn’t be shocked to see the Warrior/Thunderer/Quarreler kit follow shortly. Think of it like the Greenskinz all over again.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Glade guard I won't be sad to see go; when I actually got to see the kit in person I realized it has not aged well, they look very stiff and misproportioned.

I think they only lasted so long because of an excess stock.

I think the cannon/organ gun kit will stay or will be replaced with a new model, for the simple reason that they've just been made mercenaries. Would be strange to remove them a couple of months after