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Agreed on the mechanized lists. It's like free points for every rhino or razorback that you had in your list before without giving up anything significant.

One of the first things I'm planning to do when I get the codex is look closely at the cost/value/capability comparison between DA drop pods (which cost more, right?) and DA rhinos & razors. Drop pods used to be the no-brainer choice because they were so cheap, but if rhinos are cheaper now, it's going to be interesting to look at what kinds of simliar things rhinos allow you to do.

Yea, but rhinos only droped 8 points unless you dont want the extra armor (if you dont take that they droped 23 points).
And who doesnt want extra armor?

At 5 points extra armor is a no brainer but at 15 points it may not be worth it, especially when all you want it for is to move a cheap 5 man squad around or as mobile terrain.

What really went down in points is razorbacks. I don't know how much cheaper the lascannon ones are but the HB is damn cheap (like old rhino cost IIRC). Problem is the afore mentioned removal of the small las/plas squads that really shined with razorbacks. 10 man squads are kinda unwieldy with razorbacks (no combat squads rule in escalation) and 5 man with special weapons are so-so. So you gain some points but lose a good portion of your long range (not to mention the more VP efficent 6 man squad). Maybe lascannon razors would work ok as a replacement depending on the cost.

Why cant you use combat squads in escalation?

They are declared when deployed and depolyed when they come in from reserve.
If they are with a razorback have one squad walk on and the other come in with the razerback.

IIRC, the combat squad rules state that a unit in reserves may not be split. So drop podded units; squads with dedicated transports and assault troopers in escalation, etc cannot split.

eg. In escalation a 10 man unit with a razorback will be in reserves because they have a dedicated transport. They can't be split now so they cannot use the razorback as a transport because they number more then 6. Really fricken wierd but that seems to be what the rules say.

I was wondering what the codex said about that situation; that actually sounds encouraging to me. With a fully-mechanized army, you don't want a couple of little marine squads starting on the table to be taken out piecemeal. You want either everything in reserve, or everything on the table to start.

 

...and I'll agree that I'll gladly give up extra armor for 15 points (or 23).  The stunned result was a problem back in the days of rhino assault and it's still a problem for skimmers.  But with a ground transport, it's not really going to affect much.

Well, i guess thats what I get for not having a codex. Yea, that is a prety odd problem if you give 10 man squads razerbacks.

Gav Thorp has publicly stated that the mention of a Space Marine Redux over at Warseer is merely speculation at best. There will be no rewrite of the Space Marine codex until the 5th edition is released.

- Greenie

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 02/15/2007 12:07 PM

...and I'll agree that I'll gladly give up extra armor for 15 points (or 23).  The stunned result was a problem back in the days of rhino assault and it's still a problem for skimmers.  But with a ground transport, it's not really going to affect much.

Agreed.  Especially since in 4th Stunned doesn't prevent the unit from disembarking like it did in 3rd.

I have been thining of a reversed Mauleed Drop Pod List.

Take the Master of the Deathwind, and Terminators as Troops and take drop pod Veterans as Elites.

Might work.

Sure. One question... WTF is a Mater of the Deathwind?

- Greenie

Its the guy who commands the drop pods (specifically the armorments on the pods)

the lowest ranking master in the legion, just below master of the shotgun.

Posted By Green Bloater on 02/16/2007 9:32 AM
Sure. One question... WTF is a Mater of the Deathwind?

- Greenie

The mentally handicapped redneck cousin of the Master of the Deathwing.

Posted By Green Bloater on 02/16/2007 9:32 AM
Sure. One question... WTF is a Mater of the Deathwind?

- Greenie

Someone who eats breakfast, lunch and dinner at Bobs Bean-o-teria. Master of the Deathwind indeed.

Now that was funny! There should be a special rule for breaking wind during close combat.

- Greenie

Anyone notice the crusader is equal in points to the regular raider?

Only if you don't add extra armor to it...Then it's back to the old cost.

Ahhh yes ok. I have yet to be able to spend more than about 30 minutes with it. So far i see that the scouts are elite, the terminators can deepstrike on the first turn, tac squads have to have 10 guys before they can take heavy weapons,mixed terminator squads again. What else is substantial?

All dreadnaughts can upgrade to venerable class and assault Marines can drop their jump packs and take a drop pod for free. Plus standards that add +1A to every model in the supporting units. There is some other nice stufff as well.

Greenie

I like the tac squad move. Combined with the lower cost of transports, it means fielding a force of six tac squads in razorbacks is now not so bad an idea. The tacs can be plasma-ed or melta-ed, while the Razorback fills in as the missing 'squad heavy weapon'. Should give excellent flexibility, particularly combined with a couple of Preds to loom menacingly and some Assault Marines for counter-assault.

-Adso

To Mahu and Cpt K

I will be at Rhubarbs late Saturday afternoon if you want to get in a game. Send a PM if you are interested.

- Greenie