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Just worked out couple of broadsides shooting for a couple of turns have a 25% chance of killing a falcon.

Posted By onlainari on 06/16/2007 6:16 AM
Just worked out couple of broadsides shooting for a couple of turns have a 25% chance of killing a falcon.

But the idea is that on turn 1, you have enough range out to reach out and touch it.  Pop them before they start moving.  If it isn't in cover.  And if you get the first turn.

Not terribly reliable, but that is the idea.  The Turn 1 Turkey Shoot, as I refer to it.

With Raveners!

Last night I managed to pull it off with three rounds of 2 Raveners clawing at the thing. 22 S4 rending attacks (with the help of 3 Warriors), followed by 10 S4 attacks on the rear armour after the Falcon evaporated the Warriors. Got about 4 hits, no glances. Last turn another 10 Ravener attacks on front armour, one hit, rolled a 2 for the glance, then double sixes! Bwahaha.

Ok, not mathematically too likely I suppose, that was 4 out 5 dice coming up sixes. Though really it was 4 out of about 50 dice when you count all the missed attacks and less than glancing hits. Just happened to be the *right* 4 dice!

Just gloating, please go back to your regular programming now.

Posted By dumbuket on 06/12/2007 10:47 AM
I thought of something. I'm starting tau, and I just realized that a skyray paired with some pathfinders (which I'm going to take anyway for the markerlight synergy) could fire all 6 of its seeker missiles at the thing, potentially on turn one. Hitting the front or side, that's a good 5-6 hits and 3-4 glances/pens.

think of something else

the skyray has 1 job to do and that is anti-aircraft. unless your in a game with flyers it is the worst of all  heavy choices for a tau army. its a forgeworld design and they have an anti-aircraft platform in every army list to give you a chance in games including flyers. someof these AA mounts are good at multiple jobs like the hydra or the eldar firestorm falcon variant. unfortunately the skyray is not. it has 6 big shots of limited ammo, a  smart missle system and 2 mobile marker lights. if you do shoot your wad in turn 1 it spends the rest of the game as a mobile marker light and not a main battle tank.

Posted By mughi3 on 06/21/2007 5:19 AM

the skyray has 1 job to do and that is anti-aircraft. unless your in a game with flyers it is the worst of all  heavy choices for a tau army. its a forgeworld design and they have an anti-aircraft platform in every army list to give you a chance in games including flyers. someof these AA mounts are good at multiple jobs like the hydra or the eldar firestorm falcon variant. unfortunately the skyray is not. it has 6 big shots of limited ammo, a  smart missle system and 2 mobile marker lights. if you do shoot your wad in turn 1 it spends the rest of the game as a mobile marker light and not a main battle tank.

Compared to what, A hammerhead? Which has 1 big gun and an sms. It will also potentially shoot 6 times in most games, except where it gets stunned/weapons destroyed/kiiled, in which case it will not even get those 6 shots off.  The fact that the Skyray has limited ammo is of little practical significance, it has as many shots as most other big guns will shoot in a game. The ammo isn't as heavy hitting, though that is somewhat offset by the ability to front load all 6 shots up front.  IN a 6 turn game you get to do the following

hammerhead :

6 rail gun shots + 24 sms attacks

SkyRay:

6 seekers + 24 sms + 12 markerlights.

If you want to compare then look at the difference between the better gun against the ability to frontload damage, markerlights, no LOS requirement and points spent.

 

 

I vote for front loading damage

Posted By puree on 06/22/2007 5:27 AM

Posted By mughi3 on 06/21/2007 5:19 AM

the skyray has 1 job to do and that is anti-aircraft. unless your in a game with flyers it is the worst of all  heavy choices for a tau army. its a forgeworld design and they have an anti-aircraft platform in every army list to give you a chance in games including flyers. someof these AA mounts are good at multiple jobs like the hydra or the eldar firestorm falcon variant. unfortunately the skyray is not. it has 6 big shots of limited ammo, a  smart missle system and 2 mobile marker lights. if you do shoot your wad in turn 1 it spends the rest of the game as a mobile marker light and not a main battle tank.

Compared to what, A hammerhead? Which has 1 big gun and an sms. It will also potentially shoot 6 times in most games, except where it gets stunned/weapons destroyed/kiiled, in which case it will not even get those 6 shots off.  The fact that the Skyray has limited ammo is of little practical significance, it has as many shots as most other big guns will shoot in a game. The ammo isn't as heavy hitting, though that is somewhat offset by the ability to front load all 6 shots up front.  IN a 6 turn game you get to do the following

hammerhead :

6 rail gun shots + 24 sms attacks

SkyRay:

6 seekers + 24 sms + 12 markerlights.

If you want to compare then look at the difference between the better gun against the ability to frontload damage, markerlights, no LOS requirement and points spent.

 

 

you forgot to add a few qualifiers

1.effectiveness-

hammerheads can switch munition either doing a tank killing single shot or a non scattering pie plate for horde killing. making them more versatile in situations where you cannot change lists.

2.maker lights and seeker missles-

your forgetting the fact that you have to make 2 different rolls to hit with those marker lights. first off if your infantry is doing the marking the only hit half the time(on 4+) and then you have to roll again on a  2+ to actually hit with the seeker. if it is from the tank it is 3+ then 2+, judging from the number of one-shot wonders i have used in my armies over the  years the double roll really reduces the effectiveness of the shooting. that time you roll the 1 you have just wasted 1 of the limited 6 shots that you have during the game, and thats not even considering if you use random game length in the mission your playing.

3.weapons strength and units role-

the seekers are a S8 AP3 while this may be enough to down a few marines it finds itself lacking in several areas being hard pressed to wound high T creatures, force invul saves on 2+ save models, and most importantly, punching through moderate to heavy armor is lacking. sure you could glance AV14 with a roll of 6 but it isn't very likely and you'll never get a straight pen. even AV 12 only gives you around a 50/50 chance. if your roll is tank hunting the hammerhead is better, if your roll is MEQ killing, the ion cannon is better, if your roll is anti-aircraft the skyray is better.,

Just ran some numbers, for 60 pts, you can take a warwalker with 2 scatter lasers (sorry if this is in pages 3-5)...

If you use the cheap WW with 2 scatter lasers, it can get 0.666667 glances a turn (on average), compared to 0.444444 for a lascannon, and at a significant cost reduction. added to that, you now also have some serious hoard killing capability depending on what you need to kill...

OK, so maybe it isn't as wonderful shot for shot, but point for point, i think it will probably turn out better.

Posted By mughi3 on 06/23/2007 3:08 AM

you forgot to add a few qualifiers

1.effectiveness- ...

2....

3...

I didn't really forget them , I did say the hammerhead had a better gun, and yes that includes munitions etc. My post was about those who claim only 6 shots make it useless, a generally mute point as its the best a hammerhead will do unless the game goes beyond 6 turns. So yes you need to compare the points you make above to the benefits of front loaded damage, mobile markerlights etc.

The skyray is a nice vehicle, I wouldn't class it as better or worse, it goes well with some tau lists whereas the hammerhead fits better in others, and broadsides would be better in yet other lists. Horses for courses.