Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Because people like to complain about constant Marine releases.

Space Wolves are the most far removed from any of the other types of Marines (only Black Templars differ almost as much as they do), so really a re-release of Wolves isn't the same as a re-release of Blood Angels or Dark Angels or even Chaos, as those three are pretty similar to regular Marines (regular Marines are just better, and have Land Raiders that hold more people and Cyclones that shoot more often for... some... reason).

Wolves right after Marines would be fine as they're very different to one another, but people would complain. Personally I think it should be Marines, Dark Eldar, then Wolves - the reason being that it clears out two of the last 3rd Ed Codices (except for Guard, technically) - and allows them to move onto more interesting things, like Guard and Necrons.

Then they can redo Blood Angels properly, then Inquisition as a whole, then go about fixing the idiotic mistakes of the past (Dark Angels & Chaos). Finally we'll get back around to Black Templars to blandify that, then Tau and then finally 'Nids and we can all look forward to a nerfing of all the 'Nid stuff that rocks, and major boosts to the stuff no one takes - just like the current 'Nid 'Dex!!!

BYE

All I want is consistency. I really dont think it is that difficult. If you are going to use a codex as a test run and then you improve on it for the next codex go back and fix the old one. For DA the storm shields are already 10 pts. The only things that would be affected would be Terminators, Belial and Veteran Squads. And I sincerely doubt that C:SM Land Raiders are going to be more points to account for improved POTMS and transport capacity.

I must admit I am kind of suprised that this is being blown out of preportion like this. We already have precedence that GW will not giv consistance to its' codex through the FAQ. All I need to point you to it Deamonhunters and Assault Cannons. They will not upgrade them to the current incarnation and are stuck using the stats listed in the book. That should be proof enough right there that they wont change anything on the new book.

Also... don't forget that the DH and WH books are also 3rd and do not have an update slated any time soon.

Fallen668 wrote:

Also... don't forget that the DH and WH books are also 3rd and do not have an update slated any time soon.

Actually they're both 4th ed.

Almost positive DH is 3rd ed. Hence the Heavy 3 Assault Cannons.

It's all about point costs, and the old SW codex that really only ties in with the 3rd ed Space Marine book is an example of that upsetting the scene.

DA probably won't get the FAQ, but I don't care.

I'm selling my SW, and my vaguely Dark Angel Green marines will sit pretty.

derek wrote:

Fallen668 wrote:

Also... don't forget that the DH and WH books are also 3rd and do not have an update slated any time soon.

Actually they're both 4th ed.

Uh.... No. Just to help some of the people "new" to the game.

4rth ed was; Space Marines, Tyranids, Tau Empire, Black Templar, Eldar, Dark Angels, Chaos, Orks and Daemons.

Jezrael wrote:

derek wrote:

Fallen668 wrote:

Also... don't forget that the DH and WH books are also 3rd and do not have an update slated any time soon.

Actually they're both 4th ed.

Uh.... No. Just to help some of the people "new" to the game.

4rth ed was; Space Marines, Tyranids, Tau Empire, Black Templar, Eldar, Dark Angels, Chaos, Orks and Daemons.

I'm pretty sure they were written for 4th, and if nothing else were released at the time of the new assault rules/new vehicle rules, etc. being considered the standard for tournament play. It's like calling the Chaos Codex with Legion rules a 3rd Edition Codex.

Sisters (WH) were the last book of 3rd ed and can be easily postulated that it was written with 4th ed in mind. For a long time it was GW's most balanced codex.

DH on the other hand was far before the 4th ed release to be considered a 4th ed codex.

Deamons, while made during 4th ed, is likewise in the sisters shoes. It is quite apparent just by wording that daemons is the actual first release of 5th ed.

so 4th ed actually was:
Witch hunters, space marines, Tyranids, Tau Empire, Black Templar, Eldar, Dark Angels, Chaos, Orks (sort of)

(It is highly debatable where Orks should lie in all of this, as wording can be related to 5th ed, but they obviously changed 5th ed enough to say hat orks weren't really in fact written for 5th ed, atleast not fully)

5th ed is:
Orks (sort of), Daemons, Space marines, X codex.

What ever happened to the 'good 'ol days' of Chapter Approved?!? One book comes out with rule updates/clarificatoins, new army lists, etc and everyone gets it. BAM!! It's right here in black and white, for all to see.

Personally, I am sick of having to jump online to see what the newest FAQ's are before EVERY event/tourney, just to make sure I, at least, am playing it correctly.

As far as different rules for different armies, they all have advantages/disadvantages to them. Some people will read the DA codex and be atounded at some of the DA only stuff, while others will only see the down side. It's true with every codex.

I hope day will make true on thare word for doing evry codex in 5 edition I hurd that dark eldar wil be be for space mariens if evry thing go's wel boute codexis are finist there was only a problem whit tha new miniatures and the dark eldar is older than de space wolf.
( I don't realy care I only play imperium army's )

Yeah the Dark Eldar are gonna need something. I mean the first time around they had to have a whole new section and special characters added in after the fact for vehicle upgrades and more characters.

Hellfury wrote:Sisters (WH) were the last book of 3rd ed and can be easily postulated that it was written with 4th ed in mind. For a long time it was GW's most balanced codex.
DH on the other hand was far before the 4th ed release to be considered a 4th ed codex.
Deamons, while made during 4th ed, is likewise in the sisters shoes. It is quite apparent just by wording that daemons is the actual first release of 5th ed.
so 4th ed actually was:
Witch hunters, space marines, Tyranids, Tau Empire, Black Templar, Eldar, Dark Angels, Chaos, Orks (sort of)
(It is highly debatable where Orks should lie in all of this, as wording can be related to 5th ed, but they obviously changed 5th ed enough to say hat orks weren't really in fact written for 5th ed, atleast not fully)
5th ed is:
Orks (sort of), Daemons, Space marines, X codex.

I know the arguments for the codexes written for new rules. As you know those discussions lead people to speculate all the way back to the DA book being 5th. I was only stating the official releases in the edition timeframe.

J'santai Khan wrote:What ever happened to the 'good 'ol days' of Chapter Approved?!? One book comes out with rule updates/clarificatoins, new army lists, etc and everyone gets it. BAM!! It's right here in black and white, for all to see.

There's one major flaw in your argument - not everyone would get it. And in fact, it kinda sucks for those folks who're scraping their army by in any case, because they couldn't really afford yet another book like that. At least by putting them online, just about anyone can access them (and yeah, I know not everyone has the internet, but most folks can at least go to a library that has it).

Death By Monkeys wrote:

J'santai Khan wrote:What ever happened to the 'good 'ol days' of Chapter Approved?!? One book comes out with rule updates/clarificatoins, new army lists, etc and everyone gets it. BAM!! It's right here in black and white, for all to see.

There's one major flaw in your argument - not everyone would get it. And in fact, it kinda sucks for those folks who're scraping their army by in any case, because they couldn't really afford yet another book like that. At least by putting them online, just about anyone can access them (and yeah, I know not everyone has the internet, but most folks can at least go to a library that has it).

Or, the obvious could happen and your local store could stay up to date with the new info and keep it in a binder for everyone to come in and pay ten cents for a copy of the relevant information. This way, those who have internet get the errata online and those who don't have internet get it at the store. I can't think of anyone else who doesn't fit into one of those groups, but really it doesn't matter. At some point, you just have to leave somebody out so that 99% of your customer base can be satisfied.

What they should really do is pull Black Templars and Dark Angels from the shelves. They more then made their money anyways.

Then they should release them as PDF only "get you buy" codexes as well as updating Blood Angels.

Then when the profits take a dip. Update the lists again and do another codex release.

Simple.

Mahu wrote:What they should really do is pull Black Templars and Dark Angels from the shelves. They more then made their money anyways.

Then they should release them as PDF only "get you buy" codexes as well as updating Blood Angels.

Then when the profits take a dip. Update the lists again and do another codex release.

I don't know about that for the BT - they've got some pretty significant divergences and seem to be the most solid in dealing with changes to 5E and the new SM Codex. As long as DA have gotten the shaft with their last codex they might as well get a PDF get you by list - it'll be better than what they've got now.

There is a strong rumor starting to circulate that the reason BA and DA will not get the upgrades is that GW plans to re-release their codices within the next six months.

G

I somehow doubt GW would be on-the-ball enough to be able to make the necessary changes to the BA and DA for that kind of turnaround. Not to mention the MEq burnout that we're already starting to hear complaints about.

How can there be MEQ burn-out when the new dex isn't even released yet.

Green Blow Fly wrote:There is a strong rumor starting to circulate that the reason BA and DA will not get the upgrades is that GW plans to re-release their codices within the next six months.

G

And if you trace that rumor back to the source, it is probably a bunch of disgruntled BA and DA players, upset (rightfully so!) that GW is apparently NOT going to FAQ/patch the changes from the upcoming SM Codex for their armies...

I hurd that BA and DA are geting new codexis hurd that the blood angels are geting a codex vertion not a print out ( don't now how mutch is true about blood angels geting a codex )

Four pages, and no Hurr!!!!! ? (ok, I didn't read all four that closely, but I'm not seeing any hurrs!)

Argument for update: It's the same equipment
Argument against: GW playtests everything and the existing lists are balanced 'as is' and revising the wargear items would upset the balance.

Well, the argument against doesn't work completely, GW doesn't playtest stuff that well. I can see where there are some quirky exceptions that would upset things (BT Assault marines with storm shields come to mind).

BT and DA get Termie command squads, so you can fit an IC and a squad into a drop pod. SM get 12 man pods but no command squad, so you have to attach the IC to the squad, which means you need the bigger pod.

It'd be great if GW refitted BT, DA, BA, and SW. I can maybe see DA and BA getting refits since they're the most 'codex astares' of the four. BT are pretty divergent and, as hideous as they are now, I'd just as soon see them wait and redo the dex.

Now, if GW wants to just drop the four divergents and just make DA and BA special characters to stick in the next SM codex and then do a second Codex: Divergent Marines that would let you build BT and SW, I'd be okay with that. That'd be 60% less loyalist marines! But, it won't happen.

The problem isnt' that the rules aren't the same, the problem is they do too many MEQs because they're so popular. So, all you BT, DA, and BA players need to sell your armies and play something else. But, leave my SW alone!

Mahu wrote:How can there be MEQ burn-out when the new dex isn't even released yet.

It's the internet. It's as good as released. Seriously, though, I agree with you, although there's a bunch of discussion on pages 2 and 3 of this thread about folks getting riled up about too many MEq armies being released one after another.

dietrich wrote:
BT and DA get Termie command squads, so you can fit an IC and a squad into a drop pod. SM get 12 man pods but no command squad, so you have to attach the IC to the squad, which means you need the bigger pod.

BT may(I don't have my codex handy to check them), but DA don't that I can find. I see normal command squads, but not terminator. Even Belial's Squad would not be able to fit with him in a normal Land raider, or Drop Pod(though Deathwing Terminators don't have Drop Pods as a listed option anyway).

Yep. DA Terminator Command Squads are squads of 5 (no more, no less) and their Terminators don't have access to (50 pt) drop pods.

Alpharius wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:There is a strong rumor starting to circulate that the reason BA and DA will not get the upgrades is that GW plans to re-release their codices within the next six months.

G

And if you trace that rumor back to the source, it is probably a bunch of disgruntled BA and DA players, upset (rightfully so!) that GW is apparently NOT going to FAQ/patch the changes from the upcoming SM Codex for their armies...

Actually, it was Dosadi at Warseer. He has stated that the news he received "was that there would absolutely be FAQs for the other marine lists." Regarding Phil denying the FAQS, he ended the post with: "If this is Phil Kelly is saying then I can only assume one thing; the DA and BT books will be discontinued within the next six months and revised lists along the lines of the BA will be done to fix these inconsistencies. Anything less is asking for trouble." Since that post, I keep seeing people say that the codexes WILL be re-released with in six months.

temprus wrote:"If this is Phil Kelly is saying then I can only assume one thing; the DA and BT books will be discontinued within the next six months and revised lists along the lines of the BA will be done to fix these inconsistencies. Anything less is asking for trouble."

THAT is a pretty slender reed to lean upon!

temprus wrote:
Actually, it was Dosadi at Warseer. He has stated that the news he received "was that there would absolutely be FAQs for the other marine lists." Regarding Phil denying the FAQS, he ended the post with: "If this is Phil Kelly is saying then I can only assume one thing; the DA and BT books will be discontinued within the next six months and revised lists along the lines of the BA will be done to fix these inconsistencies. Anything less is asking for trouble." Since that post, I keep seeing people say that the codexes WILL be re-released with in six months.

So basically, Dosadi is being as wish-listy as everyone else despite the Arch-writist's actual statements?

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:Yep. DA Terminator Command Squads are squads of 5 (no more, no less) and their Terminators don't have access to (50 pt) drop pods.

My bad! What I get for talking about a codex that I don't own. OK, DA are even more gimped than I thought.

Hurr!