Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Very few of the things you listed are unique.

I'm not talking about things only the Eldar have,but about things that are resolved differently than other armies. Not little differences either.

Blackarandras wrote:Very few of the things you listed are unique.

I'm not talking about things only the Eldar have,but about things that are resolved differently than other armies. Not little differences either.

Janthkin wrote:Wraithweapons, wraithsight, holofields, prism cannons, star engines, vectored engines, Eldar Missile Launchers, shurican catapults, Dire Avenger shuircan catapults, Autarchs, Fortune, Doom, Guide, Mind War, Mandiblasters, Harlequins, Shining Spear lances, Bright Lances, Guardian Heavy Weapons platforms, Swooping Hawks grenade packs, Phoenix Lords, Witchblades/Singing Spears, and the vast collection of Exarch powers are insufficiently unique for your tastes?

The only entry common to any other race in my list is the Lance-type weapon (Dark Lances and Bright Lances are identical, rules-wise). Some of the Exarch powers give Universal Special Rules, but no other army can pick-and-choose when to purchase these in a similar manner. And I'm realizing I left off quite a few others (Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Ghost Helms, all the Warlock psychic powers...). Nearly every entry in the Eldar codex includes several special rules, most with a lot of interesting potential.

The whole GAME is made up of "little differences." Nearly all of the above can have significant game-altering potential, and the combination of them offers some of the best cross-unit synergy in the game (see, e.g., what a jetbike-mounted (there's another one: Eldar Jetbikes!) Warlock Council with Witchblades can do to anything on the charge, or what Bladestorming Dire Avengers can to when Guided at a Doomed target).

Did you have some specific opposing army in mind? Eldar are not an auto-win army, and not especially point-and-shoot to use, even under the best possible configurations, but they are still very competitive.

Because ES is referred to in the FAQ as a psychic shooting attack it has to follow the rules for scatter :(

One slighlty confusing factor is that the Eldar Dex entry for destructor specifically states that 'It is worked out like a normal shooting attack with the following profile'.

Quite why GW didn't put this caveat into ES i have no idea. Maybe because they wanted to avoid giving ES a LOS rule? It leaves us with alot of things to assume about the power, including damage to infantry which i guess is true because of its pinning abilities.

NB: I have not played since 2ED and only have the 5ED set to go on!

Janthkin,to clarify what I mean by unique is,any rule that an army has that is a "rule breaker" as far as the BRB goes.

Like,Space Marines and falling back.

Eldar mindwar is unique,but is getting a lot of flak and is being dumbed down by some,making it less unique.

Star engines are unique

Drop pods deep strike no mishap is unique

Mob rule,well maybe

This is more along the lines as I meant.

I have no problem with ES scattering at all,but it not scattering would be testament to the superiority of Eldar psychic abilities

J.Black wrote:Because ES is referred to in the FAQ as a psychic shooting attack it has to follow the rules for scatter :(

I dont believe so. It is regarded as a psychic shooting attack to determine how it works: it needs LOS and range. The power then goes on to state that you place the template and count hits.

GMMStudios wrote:

I dont believe so. It is regarded as a psychic shooting attack to determine how it works: it needs LOS and range. The power then goes on to state that you place the template and count hits.

I'm repeating myself over and over again, but I'll try again:


First, it does not require line of sight as all Eldar powers do not require LOS except where noted (such as Mind War).

Second, Eldritch Storm does NOT state how you "count hits" except for with vehicles and I don't know why several people keep saying this. Please go back and look at the rules and you will see that beyond the special affects that vehicles suffer Eldritch Storm says nothing about how it hits non-vehicle models.

It is a blast weapon that has a profile and follows the rules for shooting with the following three exceptions:

1) It does not require LOS (because the Eldar powers rules say so).
2) The blast must be centered on an enemy model (as opposed to palced anywhere over their hull/base).
3) It spins vehicles around.


That's it. That's all the exceptions listed in the power. The power is a psychic shooting attack and it has to follow the rules for shooting for it to function besides hitting vehicles. And despite what you say there are *NO* complete rules for how it affects non-vehicle models beyond the standard rules for shooting which include rolling for scatter.

Alerian wrote:Wrong.

You still have yet to show anywhere on pg 50 where psychic shooting attacks have to roll to hit, or that they have to roll for scatter. Instead, it refers us to the individual codex for the "complete rules". Show me anywhere in the complete rules for Eldrich Storm that it must either roll to hit or for scatter. It isn't there. There is NO default rule that says that psychic shooting attacks must roll to hit, or that they have to roll for scatter. Show me that on pg 50 where it lists the rest of the psychic shooting rules, or please concede.

Until then, you are just making up rules.

You also have to show me on pg 50 (or anywhere else in any codex or brb) where it states that you don't have to roll to hit, or scatter for any eldar psychic power.

And while we are at it, please show me in the sm codex where it states that if I auto rally using ATSKNF that I don't automatically win the game.

Now just who is making up what rule?

It's a permissinve ruleset. Unless it says you can do it, you can't. Except of course when a specific rule overrides a general rule, then you are back to square one.

This has probably been addressed already, and maybe I didn't pick up on it.

Anyway, doesn't the BRB say something to the effect that "instead of rolling to hit...[blast weapons scatter]" The argument I've heard against ES scatter is that because ES never needed a to-hit roll, the BRB rule on blast weapons scattering does not apply.

The scatter effect doesn't happen because it's not substituting a to-hit roll.

deadlygopher wrote:This has probably been addressed already, and maybe I didn't pick up on it.

Anyway, doesn't the BRB say something to the effect that "instead of rolling to hit...[blast weapons scatter]" The argument I've heard against ES scatter is that because ES never needed a to-hit roll, the BRB rule on blast weapons scattering does not apply.

The scatter effect doesn't happen because it's not substituting a to-hit roll.

Indeed! I posted the relevant quote in the Shokk Attack Gun thread. Blast weapons do not roll to hit. So the whole existential crisis about deviating from the shooting procedure in the BRB is a red herring.

So I have been reading this massive back and forth and I'm rather shocked that no one pointed out an obvious paragraph.

Eldar Codex pg28 "... do not require the Eldar psyker to have line of sight to the target."

40k rulebook Errata

"Q. Can a model use a psychic power that is not a
Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a
transport vehicle?
A. Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is
still worked out from the vehicle’s fire points
(this will count as one model shooting through
that fire point if the power is used in the
Shooting phase).
If the psychic power does not require line of sight
and has a range or an area of effect that is
normally measured from the model using it, these
are measured from the vehicle’s hull, as
explained in the Embarking section on page 66."

Based on these two paragraphs and the Codex > Rulebook I don't know how you could argue that you can't fire a ES from a Serpent or Falcon. The codex clearly states the power doesn't require LoS, and the errata to the rulebook clear states how to treat psychic shooting attacks that don't require line of sight.

As for scatter, yes ES is a psychic shooting attack, but the codex tells you how to treat the attack before having to deterime the "hit" piece.

Refer to the millions of posts of the exact wording, but it clearly states that you place the template and vehicles touched take the 2D6+3 and face the scatter direction... but then it uses the word if a "hit is made" implying that you move the template in the direction of the scatter, as per psy shooting attack" and if the vehicle is still under it then you face which way you prefer.

Work as follows in this example...

Serpent with Farseer uses ES
Take Psyker test
Place template and roll 2D6+3 pen for vehicles it touches
Roll scatter die and 2D6
No LOS = full 2D6 scatter (minus BS if not firing from serpent and you have LOS)
If vehicle hit face the direction you wish if not then face in the scatter direction
Resolve unit hits under the scattered blast template location S3 AP-

Counter agruements are welcome

BACK FOUL NECROMANTIC BEAST FROM WHENCE YOU CAME!

Yes this thread has passed its "best used by" date for some time.