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carmachu wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:To make a very general point, genuine salespeople really are in it for the money -- that is what totally motivates them.

That doesn't make them bad people. Plenty of salespeople (I know several guys in my company) are friendly and fun when they aren't trying to sell you something.

When they are on the job, though, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms.

The point however, repeatedly stated, is there is more than one way to sell something. Becuase if, as you stated, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms, high pressure isnt always the best way. Its just oen way.

If you read my previous posts, you will see that I have already made that point. This latest post was commenting on high pressure sales in response to the car sales experience mentioned.

carmachu wrote:

The problem is GW, over all, has only one mode. Thats the hard sell. *shrug* One needs to learn, as a salesmen, there's a time to press and a time to back off and let the pot come to a slow boil. Some people like to look and browse and if they need help, they'll ask.

Its something GW needs to learn. No one begrudges sales. But one has o learn to qualify a customer, their needs.

Back one my local FLAGS was owned by someone else, the owner knew me by sight, knew enough to wave off his employees to bother me, as I knew what I wanted, and hell, knew what was on the shelves and such better then the people he employed. Sometimes you have to back off to make the sale.

But GW, over all, wont learn this lesson.

Just interested in how you come to such a conclusion of GW as a whole? It is something that I've seen and experienced- but to say it is all of it? Thats not true at all- Your making a sweeping statement that doesn't take into account the staff who are good at what they do- and by that i mean, doing what is right by the customer- tailoring what they do to the needs of each person they talk to.
Saying that its something that GW needs to learn and doesn't just doesn't fly for me because it isn't what i've experienced from when I was a customeer at alot of stores- and now am finding is starting to become the norm while working in and visiting other GW stores.
To say that GW won't learn this lesson seems funny having sat through an hour of training at work explaining to the new guy what to do and what not to do- and basically saying we'll staple him to the ceiling if he becomes a pushy salesman and forgets the human/hobby side of the job

Maybe GW as a whole isn't like that, but the sheer number of complaints seem to suggest otherwise. I know I've heard way more about aggressive salesmen than I have about non-aggressive types.

I don't have a GW near me so I don't really care either way.

Sidstyler wrote:Maybe GW as a whole isn't like that, but the sheer number of complaints seem to suggest otherwise. I know I've heard way more about aggressive salesmen than I have about non-aggressive types.

I don't have a GW near me so I don't really care either way.

And how often do you think people post threads saying "I had an ok time at GW when I went in today" or "I had a fantastic time!"

Something I've always found about the internet is how people seem to complain more and focus more on the negatives- I see this pretty much wherever I go on the web (heck its the reason I stopped reading the world of warcrack forums... those guys whine about EVERYTHING)

Actually thinking about this- people in general can focus on the negatives alot- a friend of mine is a teacher and got disciplined for one cruddy lesson- but no fuss was made over the hundreds of average to amazing lessons that she'd taught over the previous 10 years!

So yeah- I suppose you hear more of the bad news- doesn't mean that it is necissarily the majority or the norm- just its much more entertaining to talk about!

And just as an example- last week a staff member asked if i needed superglue to stick together my techmarine- I realised I hadn't got any at home- so he'd reminded me and I got some... awesome (but really crap story- big deal)

Better story.... A few years ago (5+) a rubbish idiot of a staff member went through the drawl of trying to grab more money off me by asking if I needed any glue! The cheek... I was buying a black library book... what did he think I needed glue for?

(Both stories are true... which one is more entertaining and more likely to provoke discussion?... now look which is negative )


*edit* and I just realised the irony of me whining about people whining on the internet! *edit*

Recklessfable wrote:One of these days I'll actually go into a GW store. a few years ago, I passed by the one in Palisades Mall in West Nyack, NY. All it had was one small demo table and then everything else was just boxes of stuff at list price.

Too late, that one finally closed down.

Bignutter wrote:

Just interested in how you come to such a conclusion of GW as a whole? It is something that I've seen and experienced- but to say it is all of it? Thats not true at all- Your making a sweeping statement that doesn't take into account the staff who are good at what they do- and by that i mean, doing what is right by the customer- tailoring what they do to the needs of each person they talk to.
Saying that its something that GW needs to learn and doesn't just doesn't fly for me because it isn't what i've experienced from when I was a customeer at alot of stores- and now am finding is starting to become the norm while working in and visiting other GW stores.
To say that GW won't learn this lesson seems funny having sat through an hour of training at work explaining to the new guy what to do and what not to do- and basically saying we'll staple him to the ceiling if he becomes a pushy salesman and forgets the human/hobby side of the job

As I said, GW stores as a whole. Not the Battle bunkers. Yours? an exception. I knew of two folks that were managers and a couple employees and the stories they tell.

Notice in this thread also, that the vast majority of stories are more backing up the high pressure then anything else.

I guarentee your experiences are more an exception then mine. And otehrs I know that have gone through said training.

I'm glad I don't work in "sales" of any description.

My father-in-law (now retired) used to be a salesman of farm machinery. Now farmers are exceptionally tight as a breed. Trying to get them to part with cash is about as easy as squeezing blood out of a stone. Yet somehow he managed it, and made a good living. And still he managed to become friends with his regular clientele. To the extent he often got very nice Christmas presents off them and such.

Now, a £50,000 tractor or £100,000 combine is a far cry from a £20 boxed set of plastic models, but I think I saw in him that it was all about long term relationships and TRUST. His customer KNEW that he wasn't going to stiff them and that he was genuinely going to bend over backwards trying to get them the best deal. So much so that he had farmers from other sales areas ringing him up personally rather than going through the sales rep the company had designated to them in order to buy stuff, as they knew that he was honest and a good person to deal with.

If a salesmen can generate that level of trust he's sorted. But it doesn't come easy. And its why when GW have "shafted vets", and gouged prices year on year, trained orang-utan's in sales techniques and sent them out front to represent the company, and all the rest of it, their salesmen have an uphill mountain to climb. There are undoubtedly good "red shirts" out there, and if you know one, give him a pat and buy stuff off him. The problem is that the red shirts "as a breed", have become devalued in the hobby community as we all have garnered a lot of bad experiences, and "as a breed", we don't trust them. So a slaesman from a generic store is starting off at ground zero in building up our trust in them, but a redshirt (or blueshirt or blackshirt or whatever the heck colour they wear nowadays) is starting off BELOW ground zero - i.e. we automatically distrust them before they even open their mouths!

Way to go GW in building company loyalty.

carmachu wrote:
As I said, GW stores as a whole. Not the Battle bunkers. Yours? an exception. I knew of two folks that were managers and a couple employees and the stories they tell.

Notice in this thread also, that the vast majority of stories are more backing up the high pressure then anything else.

I guarentee your experiences are more an exception then mine. And otehrs I know that have gone through said training.

Hmm, I went through that training too. But then again SToneFox has said I'm an exception rather than the rule here too. I found if staff take the time to listen and customers take the time to explain (not the typical, leave me the frag alone, I can find what I need type of beligerant customer that is just as prevalent as the hardcore sell staff you mention) what they need, any staff can help a person find what they need and then build rapport with that person. I'd like to think that in all my encounters that each person left the store with what they needed, and with an appreciation of my help to the point where they would gladly come back and also bring their friends in as well.

I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

two_heads_talking wrote:

Hmm, I went through that training too. But then again SToneFox has said I'm an exception rather than the rule here too. I found if staff take the time to listen and customers take the time to explain (not the typical, leave me the frag alone, I can find what I need type of beligerant customer that is just as prevalent as the hardcore sell staff you mention) what they need, any staff can help a person find what they need and then build rapport with that person. I'd like to think that in all my encounters that each person left the store with what they needed, and with an appreciation of my help to the point where they would gladly come back and also bring their friends in as well.

You are. SO was the guy I game with when he was a manager. I have no doubt there are.

But overall? No there arent enough exceptions, and Osbad said, their already starting behind the 8 ball since GW has had many foot in mouth moments with its fan base.

JokerGod wrote:I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

As the old saying goes, you obviously have ears but cant hear what folks are saying.

Yes GW is trying to sell something. But as pointed out, for the most part, have only one way they do it: hard sell. And the fact that one poster pointed out in comparing them to car salesmen to look better, thats a sad state of affairs.

There are a variety of sales methods. Many of them work, sometimes better then the hard sell. It be nice if they actually tried them.

Retail sucks big fat harry cock, may no mistake about it. I work part time sales and the more you actually try to generally help people and use things like empathy the more you get smacked upside the head with the bottom line.

carmachu wrote:

JokerGod wrote:I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

As the old saying goes, you obviously have ears but cant hear what folks are saying.

Yes GW is trying to sell something. But as pointed out, for the most part, have only one way they do it: hard sell. And the fact that one poster pointed out in comparing them to car salesmen to look better, thats a sad state of affairs.

There are a variety of sales methods. Many of them work, sometimes better then the hard sell. It be nice if they actually tried them.

Just out of interest- how do you treat the GW staff when you interact with them Carmachu?
And the same for everyone else? How do you react to a staff member when they say hi?

carmachu wrote:

JokerGod wrote:I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

As the old saying goes, you obviously have ears but cant hear what folks are saying.

Yes GW is trying to sell something. But as pointed out, for the most part, have only one way they do it: hard sell. And the fact that one poster pointed out in comparing them to car salesmen to look better, thats a sad state of affairs.

There are a variety of sales methods. Many of them work, sometimes better then the hard sell. It be nice if they actually tried them.

Ok we hear a small number of people saying there is number of GW red shirts that throw sale ideas at you, that is a very small number compared to the people that do there job (Selling you gak) and be nice about it, but you don't hear about them because no one comes here to talk about good things, only cry when they get mad about something.

And Red shirts are EXACTLY like car salesmen, or any other retail worker, other then product they have one goal, sell you things you want and getting you to buy a few extras if they can.

People need to stop with all the crap about how its so wrong for them to try and sell you something, its there job! If you would stop treating them like trash and be polite about it they would leave you alone.

The difference is they aren't hobbies. They are also not corporations who base their experience on customer service, to the point of giving some of their money up to run clubs, let people paint in their stores, stand for hours talking about the hobby. If car salesmen or people in burgerking did this they'd have no jobs.

A company with this prescedent of customer service and enjoyment should do more. yes i'm grateful they give up money for these things, but to have these and then push a lot doesn't seem right. As far as im aware at no point of recruitment do they just talk to you, see how you are about the hobby in general. Such a shame.

The Big Mek wrote:
A company with this prescedent of customer service and enjoyment should do more. yes i'm grateful they give up money for these things, but to have these and then push a lot doesn't seem right. As far as im aware at no point of recruitment do they just talk to you, see how you are about the hobby in general. Such a shame.

Actually they do- and alot of stores really push those aspects- harder in some cases than the "hard sales" that everyone seems to hate

but as its been said before- all it takes is one bad story for everyone to jump on the negative bandwagon, regardless of the number of positive stories that go untold

not like it's gonna stop many people from buying from them...unless they go to the Warstore and E-bay or something like that

TheCapm wrote:not like it's gonna stop many people from buying from them...unless they go to the Warstore and E-bay or something like that

EBay is a long and tiring fight for most things and is not worth it depending on shipping, and people will always go to GW stores when there in the area and need/want something right away.

How ever I dought GW cares how you buy there models, in the end the money still comes back to them.

Exactly, I mean, unless everyone gives up the hobby they still get a steady income

JokerGod wrote:

TheCapm wrote:not like it's gonna stop many people from buying from them...unless they go to the Warstore and E-bay or something like that

EBay is a long and tiring fight for most things and is not worth it depending on shipping, and people will always go to GW stores when there in the area and need/want something right away.

How ever I dought GW cares how you buy there models, in the end the money still comes back to them.

People need to stop with all the crap about how its so wrong for them to try and sell you something, its there job! If you would stop treating them like trash and be polite about it they would leave you alone.

You're right, everyone's just a liar, they're all donkey-caves who treat their innocent, selfless red shirts like gak and that's the only reason why they employ high-pressure sales tactics. If you weren't such a jerk then they'd leave you alone.

Chrispy wrote:

Two good experiences I had at the store attached to the Battle Bunker in MD recently

You know, that's exactly the experience I had visiting the GW HQ at Glen Bernie, MD. I've been out of the game for a few years (5 as well) and when I went back the first time in December, I was pleasantly surprised. The staff was helpful but not pushy. I asked them to teach me the basics of the new edition, and they even set me up with a knowledgeable opponent who was happy to patiently teach me the intricacies. I pulled out my old Ork stuff and we had a good time playing.

Last week, I visited again with the plan to bring along my Skullhammer conversion and work on it in store. I sat at a table, and was greeted by the district manager. He gave me some helpful tips, a small sales pitch, and then introduced me to the veteran hobbyists. I plan to make my visits a weekly occurrence. We'll see about buying from them, though.

Maybe my experience was rare. Maybe the store I visit is extraordinary or something, but I've officially changed my mind about GW stores from the first year they opened in 2004.

I had almost the same thing happen. I had been out of the hobby for awhile and walked into the bunker and literally they spent over an hour walking me through whats gone on for the last 5 years. I was interested in DKoK and they actually talked me into regular guard first! They talked me into spending less money!

They will always get my business now, for the time they spent and actually not worrying about making the big sale. I buy everything from there. No more E-Bay for me. I support my local shop!

For what it's worth, that's at least 3 positive experiences from this thread so people DO post their positive experiences... even if it's on a thread about a negative one in this case

Bignutter wrote:
Just out of interest- how do you treat the GW staff when you interact with them Carmachu?
And the same for everyone else? How do you react to a staff member when they say hi?

Same as whetther I'm in sears, circuit city or elsewhere.

"No thanks, just looking."

If they understand that, great. If they try the hard sell it gets less polite.....just like any store I would walk into. When I need help or a question, I'll ask. But generally I like to browse first, then look for help.

Bignutter wrote:

Actually they do- and alot of stores really push those aspects- harder in some cases than the "hard sales" that everyone seems to hate

but as its been said before- all it takes is one bad story for everyone to jump on the negative bandwagon, regardless of the number of positive stories that go untold

Just as the fanboys and defenders poo poo any bad stories and hand wave away any bad experiences ......

Too bad for GW i've discovered the joy of trademe!!! Saves so much $ that way!!!!

I used to use online stores and ebay, ebay I decided was such a scam - models broken or missing bits or selling for close enough original price you might as well buy them from GW. There is also something nice about getting stuff totally new.

I have now decided only to order from online retailers for big orders (like over hundred pounds).

It helps that my local GW (Belfast) dont try the hard sell with me even tho im not a regular, its just a friendly hi anything we can help you with and thats it.

Well, as what would be my FLGS is a GW (Stony Point, Richmond, VA for the curious) if I was actively purchasing gaming things (Need a proper job first), I figue I'll post my story from the last 2 times I visited.

First time, I got the standard "Hi, what do you play/what are you looking for" question. I told them that I was interested in Tau and had been playing on and off since 2nd edition and had heard there was a new version coming out. The staff were nice enought to go get the store copy of the 5th ed rulebook for me, they showed me that briefly. They tried to pre-sell me an AoBR set as it was the same rulebook plus a bunch of minis for a good price. No problem with that.

Came back a couple weeks later, bought the BGB. The staff remembered me, gave me a few flyers about their Veterans nights and offered to let me try a game against one of the staffers with a store Tau army to learn the rules. No trying to sell me on anything else, not even a WD or paints or anything.

I was impressed by the friendly and helpful staff, and will likely purchase at least my mandatory HQ and Troops from the store as it's a nice environment and had decent people to play against.

I will likely order most of my planned Suits/Vehicles on-line just because of the discount (unless GW has a special package, like the Apoc sets), but I'll certainly buy my paints and hobby supplies from the GW store, as well as likely later expansions just because I support their practices

The Big Mek wrote:There's a game a few of my friends have started called 'The Games Workshop Game' and the idea is to go to the back of the shop, touch the wall and walk back out again without being advised to be bought something, bearing in mind my GW is literally around 6 foot wide, which will a desk in makes it very thin and takes no time at all to touch the wall.
No one has ever won this game unless there were a girl, who never seem to be even looked at.

LOL. I regularaly send my girlfriend in to pick stuff up for me. She says the place goes deathly quiet when she walks in. It avoids the social awkwardsness of being dragged into conversations that begin with "have you seen the new...". I really think they need to tone down the cheesey sales pitches. I really don't like going into stores, because it can seem like a cult, and that's a shame.

Hmm. I went into a GW shop at a mall in the Philly area (don't remember which mall, but I believe it was north of Philly). On the way out, I got asked if I needed help with anything and what army I played. I responded, "Imperial Guard", and his immediate question was, "Oh! What chapter do you play?"

I'm a rabid Guardsman and hate Space Marines, so I glared at him and huffed, "Guard don't have chapters, they have Regiments". I still feel kinda bad about that, but hey, he was wrong.....

two_heads_talking wrote:

carmachu wrote:
As I said, GW stores as a whole. Not the Battle bunkers. Yours? an exception. I knew of two folks that were managers and a couple employees and the stories they tell.

Notice in this thread also, that the vast majority of stories are more backing up the high pressure then anything else.

I guarentee your experiences are more an exception then mine. And otehrs I know that have gone through said training.

Hmm, I went through that training too. But then again SToneFox has said I'm an exception rather than the rule here too. I found if staff take the time to listen and customers take the time to explain (not the typical, leave me the frag alone, I can find what I need type of beligerant customer that is just as prevalent as the hardcore sell staff you mention) what they need, any staff can help a person find what they need and then build rapport with that person. I'd like to think that in all my encounters that each person left the store with what they needed, and with an appreciation of my help to the point where they would gladly come back and also bring their friends in as well.

I enjoyed buying from you more than from the old manager. But ever since B's been in charge, he seems to have gotten all of the new crew to be more laid back in their sales methods. Rapport's more important in the GW sell, I agree. Needless to say there are some weird guys who come in who prob don't need to feel alienated from the staff.