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ryan3740 wrote:That still doesn't answer the question - can a Farseer cast a psychic power on a unit that arrived from deepstrike that turn?

Locator beacons and Teleport homers must be on the board at the "Start of the turn" in order to be used. According to your ruling that clause can be triggered after I move units on from reserve, which happens "at the beginning of my movement phase."

By our current ruling you are correct, you could move something on from Reserves and as long as the Farseer was not the one moving on from Reserves he would technically be allowed to cast a 'start of the turn' power on that arriving unit.

However, I can pretty safely say that is an oversight on my part. We had a specific ruling in place covering units arriving from Reserves not being able to use (or benefit from) 'start of the turn' abilities, but I removed it because I figured GW's own ruling covered our bases, but I see now that it actually only covers it in one instance and not the other, so when the next INAT update comes out it more than likely we will put a ruling back in place to prohibit a unit arriving from Reserve being able to benefit from a 'start of the turn' ability.

yakface wrote:We had a specific ruling in place covering units arriving from Reserves not being able to use (or benefit from) 'start of the turn' abilities, but I removed it because I figured GW's own ruling covered our bases, but I see now that it actually only covers it in one instance and not the other, so when the next INAT update comes out it more than likely we will put a ruling back in place to prohibit a unit arriving from Reserve being able to benefit from a 'start of the turn' ability.

Or you could just say that 'start of the turn' is before the movement phase. That's much simpler and then all of GW's FAQ answers and rules about teleport homers make sense. Plus, you won't need all these 'exceptions'.

Yep, just state that once a unit has moved, to include arriving from reserves, then the 'start/beginning of the turn' is over and done with. This answer is even supported by the GW CSM FAQ.

I'm assuming that you're going to wait a while to introduce all of the new Necron rulings into the FAQ, but just so you know, I have a little project going on, aiming to make that process a bit easier on you. This codex is a bit of a bear in the rules issues department from what I've seen so far. Hopefully I can help.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/409141.page

I saw it and I appreciate it. Keep up compiling questions you see and it will definitely be a big help to me!


Thanks again!

yakface wrote:

Just a brief bump of the thread to make it clear that v5.0 of the INAT has now been released. Please click on the INAT FAQ link at the top of the page to always find the most current version of the INAT FAQ.

Grimgob wrote:Red Paint Job on Ork vehicle. If an Ork vehicle with the red paint job upgrade goes 7 inches do enemy troops hit the vehicle on 4+ or a 6+ in CC? the rules as written could go either way and when I asked most people play a 6+. When I played it this way at a tournament an opponant got all bent out of shape about it and I would like a diffinitive answer as I dont care one way or the other (just not sure how to play it).

Grimgob,

Sorry I wasn't able to get this question into this latest release as we were already pretty late in the game of getting it done by the time you posted this, but I'll be sure to get it in the next update.



Thanks for all the great submissions everyone!

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but has there been a ruling on this yet anywhere?

Looks like Logan is the only person who can benefit from his begining of turn thing when he comes in from reserves.

Here's one for C'tan's Writhing Worldscape abilitiy:

The second sentence in the ability says: "If the terrain is already dangerous, the Dangerous Terrain test is failed on a 1 or 2." - key word "ALREADY"

So, if a skimmer in difficult terrain (either by actual terrain or storm effects), has to take the dangerous terrain to move, does the test fail on a:

- result of a 1 or 2, based on an assumption that the skimmer is ALREADY IN dangerous terrain, prior to the storm effects + C'Tan effects.

- result of a 1 based on the placement of the skimmer IN difficult terrain, NOT dangerous terrain.

Does the Necron Abyssal Staff target the average leadership or the highest leadership in a unit? Its a normal shooting attack in everyway except that it doesn't wound against toughness, it wounds against LD, so would it would the average LD just like a normal shooting attack would?

Does the Grey Knight rule 'Reinforced Aegis' only apply to models that already have the 'Aegis' special rule?

A friend and I got into a discussion about the wording of the 'Reinforced Aegis' rule and agreed that it can be confusing. Depending on how one would read it, it could be argued that any psychic power used within the 12" bubble of the Dreadnought would suffer the leadership penalty, and not just targets of psychic powers that have the Aegis rule.

Arander wrote:Does the Grey Knight rule 'Reinforced Aegis' only apply to models that already have the 'Aegis' special rule?

A friend and I got into a discussion about the wording of the 'Reinforced Aegis' rule and agreed that it can be confusing. Depending on how one would read it, it could be argued that any psychic power used within the 12" bubble of the Dreadnought would suffer the leadership penalty, and not just targets of psychic powers that have the Aegis rule.

It does say that the 'Leadership penalties caused by the Aegis are increased to -4' so I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that this applies to units that don't have the Aegis.

Do Cyrpteks become troops when they join a squad?

Example, a cryptek stays a part of a cryptek unit, they are an HQ choice. If the cryptek squad splits and joins seperate units, that they can never leave and are considered "part of the unit", do they becomes troops? Such that, if they got back up after their unit was destoryed, would they still be consider scoring units?

From the January Imperial Guard FAQ update:

"Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately."

For Dawn of War deployment purposes, could an Infantry Platoon (Platoon Command Squad w/Chimera, Infantry Squad w/Chimera, Infantry Squad w/Chimera) be deployed as a single Troops choice?

Just to those interested:

At long last the v5.1 update is finally here!

It covers the Necron & Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf) Codexes and the recent GW official FAQ update (Feb 2012).

Thanks for your patience and sorry for taking so long to get this update out!

Oh, and the INAT Appendix update covering Imperial Armor Volume 11 and Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2nd edition, should hopefully be up within a couple of weeks.

Here's all the relevant questions I could think of that either didn't get put in or were a result of the update. Thanks for said update, by the way. Having a standardized FAQ for this stuff really helps.


Strictly Necron questions:

If a Wraith unit moves through terrain when assaulting, is its initiative reduced to 1 in the resulting assault if they are joined by an independent character?

Does a model that lost a save due to Entropic Strike lose the save in its profile (i.e., is it considered different from then on for the purposes of wound allocation)?

Can a model that suffered a "delayed" result on the Deep Strike mishap table be deployed by the monolith's portal in the same turn?

If a Night Scythe is immobilized while moving flat-out, are its occupants destroyed or placed in reserve?

If a unit in reserve fails a pinning test or a morale test, what happens?

Does a CCB have to move over a large oval flying base in order to hit the vehicle with sweep attacks? If it can only get so far as to reach a wing and ends its move "under" the model, does it still count as moving "over" the model for the purposes of the sweep attack?

If a CCB moves flat-out and suffers an 'Immobilized' result, can Symbiotic Repair still be used to prevent the damage to the vehicle, even though it would normally be destroyed? What if this result is suffered because of its own move into terrain?

Do Imotekh's lightning strikes affect units forced to disembark by lightning strikes in the same turn?

Can a unit in a Night Scythe utilizing Phased Reinforcements also disembark in the enemy turn?

If Wraiths are given Tank Hunters, do they still rend on only an "actual" roll of 6?

Can Phased Reinforcements be used if the enemy unit that "arrives" from reserves rolls a "Destoyed" or "Delayed" mishap result on the Deep Strike mishap table?

If MitM affects an enemy vehicle in a squadron of 2 vehicles, then fires the affected vehicle at the other vehicle, does the vehicle being fired upon revert to the normal rules for vehicle damage or does it retain the squadron rules for vehicle damage?

If a single enemy model is affected by multiple mindshackle scarabs, does it continue rolling Ld tests until it fails (once for each instance of mindshackle scarabs)? In addition, if it fails multiple leadership tests, can the Necron player roll several D3s and choose the highest of those rolls?

If a Deathmark unit contains a Cryptek with a Veil of Darkness, can it use the Ethereal Interception special rule if it is arriving from reserve? What about Phased Reinforcements?

If a Deathmark unit deploys multiple times over the course of a game (Night Scythe wreck, mishap while attached to a veil, etc) can it choose a new unit for its Hunters from Hyperspace special rule? If so, is its original choice (assuming that target is still alive) still targeted for the purpose of Hunters from Hyperspace?

If a unit is wounded by an Aeonstave, can it from then on be allocated to differently, as it has a different stat line?

Can pinned Lychguard units reflect shooting attacks?

Is the Staff of Tomorrow supposed to be a close combat weapon?

Is the Staff of the Destroyer also a Staff of Light in addition to its special one-shot shooting attack?

If a unit contains a Cryptek with a Nightmare Shroud, can the Shroud target a different unit than the one its attached unit is firing at? In addition, when is its target chosen (e.g., before, during, or after its own unit's shooting)?

If two Nightmare Shrouds are in the same unit, do they happen at the same time? For example, if an enemy unit flees from the first, does it roll to flee a second time from the second Nightmare Shroud, even if its first fall back move takes it out of the second Nightmare Shroud's range?

Can a unit containing two Chronometrons re-roll 2d6 rolls? Are there any special case D6 rolls a chronometron can't re-roll?


Dark Eldar/Necron Questions:

Assume that a unit is wiped out by Dark Eldar shooting from unit X. In the same shooting phase, Dark Eldar unit Y runs in order to prevent a Cryptek from making an ever-living roll by standing in the area where it would normally be able to return to play, resulting in its removal from play. Can either unit get the PFP counter?

Similarly, what happens in the assault phase if the Animus Vitae (in unit X) inflicts a wound that would normally allow it to activate? Does it still get to make the Ld test right away, or does it happen at the end of the phase? If it is used against a model with ever-living, and as in the above case unit Y prevents the EL roll from being made in the first place, does the Animus Vitae still get to activate?


Grey Knight/Necron questions:

Is a unit moving (i.e., not arriving from reserve) via a Veil of Darkness affected by Warp Quake?

If a C'tan kills a model with Time's Arrow and the killed model is attempting to use Cleansing Flame, what happens? What if that model is the last one in the combat capable of using cleansing flame?

How do mindshackle scarabs interact with Crowe's (or any other model's) use of The Perfect Warrior?


SoB/Necron Question:

How do Mindshackle Scarabs interact with Spirit of the Martyr?

I have one question.

Does a Tyranid Impaler Cannon ignore cover saves for smoke and flat out vehicle movement? I have seen so many places playing the rule differently I don't know what to do.

The new FAQ gives the impression it ignores them, until you come to the word 'wounds'.

Please help.

Just posting a heads-up that the INAT Appendix v3.0 has now been released.

It covers Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2nd edition, Imperial Armor Volume 11 & the recent Imperial Armor PDF updates available from Forgeworld's website.

You can download it from the INAT FAQ link at the top of any page on Dakka.


Thanks!

Not sure if covered inthe FAQ or not.

If a model has an ability that is triggered by "Unsaved Wounds Caused" can this ability trigger more times than a unit has wounds.

EX: For each Unsaved wound caused do X. If 5 unsaved wounds are caused on a unit with only 3 wounds does X happen 3 or 5 times?

Notice the wording is wounds caused and not wounds suffered.

I have a question regarding the latest INAT FAQ.:

INAT wrote:NEC.85G.02 – Q: If two Crypteks with Seismic Crucible are attached to the same unit, can one enemy unit be nominated for both, reducing their assault move by 2D3 inches?
A: Yes [clarification].

ELD.26D.01 – Q: Are multiple instances of Runes of Warding in the same Eldar army cumulative with each other (meaning opposing psykers take their psychic tests using 4D6)?
A: No, multiple instances of Runes of Warding in the same army still only add a single extra D6 to enemy psychic tests [clarification].

I'm curious why one set of wargear stacks, yet another does not. Any clarification would be appreciated.

jbunny wrote:Not sure if covered inthe FAQ or not.

If a model has an ability that is triggered by "Unsaved Wounds Caused" can this ability trigger more times than a unit has wounds.

EX: For each Unsaved wound caused do X. If 5 unsaved wounds are caused on a unit with only 3 wounds does X happen 3 or 5 times?

Notice the wording is wounds caused and not wounds suffered.

Which ability in particular are you referring to? I don't think there can necessarily be some catch-all ruling on this type of thing because the wording for each ability sometimes differs.

Happyjew wrote:I have a question regarding the latest INAT FAQ.:

INAT wrote:NEC.85G.02 – Q: If two Crypteks with Seismic Crucible are attached to the same unit, can one enemy unit be nominated for both, reducing their assault move by 2D3 inches?
A: Yes [clarification].

ELD.26D.01 – Q: Are multiple instances of Runes of Warding in the same Eldar army cumulative with each other (meaning opposing psykers take their psychic tests using 4D6)?
A: No, multiple instances of Runes of Warding in the same army still only add a single extra D6 to enemy psychic tests [clarification].

I'm curious why one set of wargear stacks, yet another does not. Any clarification would be appreciated.

This point was definitely brought up during the discussion and there is no completely clear-cut answer.

In the case of the Seismic Crucible it seemed fairly straight forward: The ability is generated separately by each Cryptek and could be allocated onto two different units, affecting them both, so it makes sense that applying both Crucibles onto a single enemy unit would mean it suffers the effects of both.

The Runes of Warding is a bit more of a tricky situation. There are those that believe GW's errata was done specifically to allow the stacking of multiple Runes of Warding, but we felt it was pretty clear the change was made to iron out the issues you had when you had a Runes of Witnessing vs. a Runes of Warding in opposing armies.

While we could be 100% wrong, we don't think the intention was to make two sets of Runes of Warding in the same army essentially shut down any opposing army from using any psychic powers (as taking tests on a 4D6 would do). I know Eldar certainly could benefit from such a boost, but we're basically falling back on the absurdity clause here: It just seems highly unlikely that GW intends for this errata to suddenly increase the power of Runes of Witnessing to an incredible level...that's not what their errata are typically used for. They are used to clarify genuinely unclear situations, and the unclear situation that we believe the errata was made to address was when you had Runes of Witnessing vs. Runes of Warding in opposing armies.

edit: Removed as the question has been answered

Yak,

Blood Talons says For each unsaved wound generate another attack. If he gets 5 unsaved wounds on 3 single wound models, how many additional attacks does he get that can be directed into another unit in base to base contact.

Not wanting to debate the ruling, just wanted your ruling on it.

edit: removed as the question is answered.

Can the Sweep Attack special rule be clarified as it relates to movement "over" a model?

I'll try and give some examples:
1. Can any part of the CCB move over the enemy model? That is, does the base need to pass over the other model, or can it be any part of the hull?
2. Does pivoting count as moving "over" the enemy model? For example, I move my barge 24", but when I land facing the enemy table edge, I land within 1" of the enemy. If I instead land facing one of the short table edges and pivot 180 degrees to face the second table edge, I will remain 1" away from the enemy unit, but only by pivoting will I be capable of moving "over" the enemy unit.

At the Indy GT, the above was ruled on in my first game, but because it's fairly easy to do either of these moves first turn, most of my opponents were not prepared for the tactic. The Indy GT ruled for the first and against the second, but it came up in 5/6 of my games, and as necrons are on the rise, I feel it is becoming more and more relevant, especially since armies are starting almost exactly 24" apart more often than not.

Kitzz wrote:Can the Sweep Attack special rule be clarified as it relates to movement "over" a model?

I'll try and give some examples:

3. Can you double back, as part of moving "over" a model? E.g., you lack the movement to completely pass the model, or there isn't room to land on the far side - if you have enough movement to reach the edge of the enemy model, and then pull back to land safely, does that meet the requirements?

Does a Grey Knight unit equipped with a Brotherhood Banner still need to roll dice when using their Force Weapons to see if they suffer Perils of the Warp even though the unit would "automatically" pass it's Psychic test?

jbunny wrote:Yak,

Blood Talons says For each unsaved wound generate another attack. If he gets 5 unsaved wounds on 3 single wound models, how many additional attacks does he get that can be directed into another unit in base to base contact.

Not wanting to debate the ruling, just wanted your ruling on it.

Only 3. You can only deal as many wounds to a model as are on its profile.

Zirilius wrote:Does a Grey Knight unit equipped with a Brotherhood Banner still need to roll dice when using their Force Weapons to see if they suffer Perils of the Warp even though the unit would "automatically" pass it's Psychic test?

No, that is why you take the banner. Since you automatically pass the test, there is no dice roll required.

yakface wrote:Note to self:

*Poisoned Biomporph for Tyanids...does this stack with other special weapons?

wow yak... of all people i thought you would know that in the tyranid codex it states that tyranids do not use weapons and that all of the biomorphs effect the melee attacks of the tyranid. so if you have scything talons, adrenal glands, toxin sacs and lash whip bone sword. you get poison(+4), furious charge, re-roll all 1's to hit, enemies in base to base are I1, and may cause instant death.

Hellstrom@

I would like a page number or rules ref. The only thing others have been able to mention is Determine Assault Results, but I feel that does not apply here. I also refer to the wording of Unsaved wounds caused, and not unsaved wounds suffered.

Thanks

Regarding Farseer powers; Farseer powers do not require line of sight, unless otherwise noted. Of the listed powers, only Mind War specifies needing LoS. Does Eldritch Storm (as it is a PSA) require LoS?