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Pipboy101 wrote:I bet in five years it will be sold by Wal-Mart for 10 dollars in a two pack Blue Ray paired up with Tremors 3. Great effects, horrible story. I think Golden Books for kids put out more orginal story plots then this movie.

Sorry boyo, but Avatar will be the second killer app for BD. After Dark Knight, which it will easily outsell.

That's not an opinion on its quality, that's just a cold hard fact.

I enjoyed the movie, it was well paced and well written, if not terribly unique in terms of story telling. The oppression and white-man-messiah shtick got way to New-WASP-age for me (along with bearing a large portion of "white recidivist" stereotyping). And of course, the technology behind the movie was incredible.

It has mass appeal, which is what matters in the end for sales. I am pretty sure Avatar will be the equivalent of Star Wars for younger kids. It might not stick with us jaded adults, but it sure will for them. I already know plenty of kids who are into it. Kids=home release sales.

Come on now, Dark Knight is now in the bargain bin at Target now for 5 dollars. When Harry Potter is released everyone will forget about this movie. Honestly, I hate the Harry Potter movies but the last two movies will out sell Avatar in to history books.

Pipboy101 wrote:Come on, Dark Knight is now in the bargain bin at Target now for 5 dollars.

Man you have a deranged sense of reality. There are always sales on stuff, but Dark Knight still sells at standard shelf prices for BDs. DVDs are almost ALL cut rate prices due to the adoption rate of BD.

Avatar will sell well, and only do better when the sequel is announced/hyped.

We'll see in october. If I see a bunch of kiddies in Avatar costumes I'll believe it. If I don't then bleh it was a very very profitable blip on the screen.

Frazzled wrote:We'll see in october. If I see a bunch of kiddies in Avatar costumes I'll believe it. If I don't then bleh it was a very very profitable blip on the screen.

Hah, very true. But, the crazy Avatar-depression people will already have bought four copies before offing themselves.

Altered_Soul wrote:Sorry boyo, but Avatar will be the second killer app for BD. After Dark Knight, which it will easily outsell.

That's not an opinion on its quality, that's just a cold hard fact.

Actually, that is a prediction. By their very nature predictions can't be facts.

Altered_Soul wrote:I enjoyed the movie

Then you got your moneys worth, congratulations!

Altered_Soul wrote:it was well paced

Nope

Altered_Soul wrote:and well written

Nope

Altered_Soul wrote:if not terribly unique in terms of story telling

Yep

Altered_Soul wrote:It has mass appeal, which is what matters in the end for sales

Which would matter to me if I were an investor. As I am not how well a movie does is irrelevant to my decision making.

Altered_Soul wrote:Avatar will sell well, and only do better when the sequel is announced/hyped.

I think that James Cameron should let Avatar sink into the abyss just like in the end scene of Titanic. On a side note, there was enough room up there on that wood for him and her skinny butt. Plus in that water he should have went into shock almost immediatly. I hate that F*ing movie. I just wanted a giant squid to come up and eat him horribly.

Ahtman wrote:Actually, that is a prediction. By their very nature predictions can't be facts.

Excuse my rhetoric Mr. Internet. Time will tell. But box office trends tend to relate to BD/DVD sales.

Then you got your moneys worth, congratulations!

Thank you, how polite!

Altered_Soul wrote:it was well paced

Nope

Blanket "nope" means everything! Any particular extensions to that comment? Avatar pushed its subject matter along at a 3 hour long pace, and didn't linger particularly long or particularly quickly. It wasn't a perfect piece of cinema pacing, but it wasn't bad either. Hence, the word "well" is used.

Altered_Soul wrote:and well written

Nope

Story != writing. Movie writing includes many aspects of the film, rather than just the dialogue (which in of itself wasn't particularly bad), or the story uniqueness. Writing for film is a much different meter of value. Hence my next comment:

Altered_Soul wrote:if not terribly unique in terms of story telling

Yep

Hooray we agree on something! We could be friends if it weren't for your shallow depredation of any non-volatile comments about Avatar!

Altered_Soul wrote:It has mass appeal, which is what matters in the end for sales

Which would matter to me if I were an investor. As I am not how well a movie does is irrelevant to my decision making.

I see you are choosing not to buy this movie. 2 Billion dollars worldwide disagrees. Congrats, you aren't part of the masses. Doesn't change a thing that this movie will sell like hotcakes AND sell BDPs. The large minority of nerd-rage whining will hardly affect overall sales, as is evident with the box-office.

If you hate Avatar, hate it, it really doesn't matter. I didn't make my top 3, not even my top 5. To me it was an enjoyable movie without much unique for all the books and movies I have seen, but it was fun. The technology was revolutionary, which should win it some awards and deserve them, but movie of the year it was not. I think the 3D is oversold and still gimmicky (ignoring that its always screwed up for my eyes). I can understand the hate directed at it, but I have never understood why its so volatile. Its like complaining about Twilight. What's the point? If you don't consume, you aren't affected. Unless you are in high school, then life sucks anyway and no amount of gakky movies will make you happy.

Internet hate makes Eywa cry. :(

Manchu wrote:Internet hate makes Eywa cry. :(

Crap, we have a Navi-wrist cutter! Call the hospital quick!

Wait, no nevermind, just call the coroner in a few hours.

The only thing weirder than being depressed that there is no such thing as Pandora is endlessly debating whether or not movies ever copy other movies.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Actually, that is a prediction. By their very nature predictions can't be facts.

Excuse my rhetoric Mr. Internet. Time will tell. But box office trends tend to relate to BD/DVD sales.

That is kind of the point. If only time will tell it isn't a fact. The sun emits UV rays that reach the Earth. We don't have to wait and hope, we know it with certainty. It are fact.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Altered_Soul wrote:it was well paced

Nope

Blanket "nope" means everything!

Modquisition on:
Chillins lets take a breath and relax a bit shall we?

I don't like it because a guy betrays it's own race for some aliens.

Ahtman wrote:Massive cut

Nothing personal man, I was just going after your anemic posts, not you personally.

I am debating sales, not quality, nor whether you like it or not. I am sorry if I was having some fun on Friday and using a little (badly transferred over the interwebs) rhetoric to state the obvious potential for this thing to sell like hotcakes, especially as a BD.

Also, the final "hate" comment wasn't directed towards you, but obviously the paragraph wasn't enough to separate the quote response from a continuation of my fascination of Avatar and other pop-culture hate.

I think things went badly because I was making fun of Pipboys assumption that Abadah will be bargain bin material, and then he backed it up saying Dark Knight was, which was a bizarre concept to me. You responded to me after that, which seemed to assume that I was defending the movie of its own value. My point, in response to someone saying it won't sell on home release, and with a dose of rhetoric, was what followed.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Massive cut

Did you ignore Frazz's post?

Ahtman wrote:

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Massive cut

Did you ignore Frazz's post?

No. I was trying to make amends by explaining it all away. It was a mea culpa.

Y'all can disagree, just lets watch the heat shall we.

IvanTih wrote:I don't like it because a guy betrays it's own race for some aliens.

+++Imperial Expedition Fleet Update+++
+++985999.M41 The Day of St. Marcus+++
+++Thought of the Day: Idleness begets heresy+++

My Lord Inquisitor,

Recently our expedition has made its way into the Pangea Sector, located in the far South West of the Galactic Plane. We have discovered a splinter group of humanity. Hidden from the rest of the galaxy by millenia of warp storms, they have struggled to survive on thier dwindling resources. Our first encounter was above a habitable planet known as 'Pandora'. They seemed to be staging an evacuation of sorts. After approaching them, and when they had gotten over the initial shock of meeting more of thier brethren, we learnt that they had been defeated by a primitive form of xenos. We also learnt that the air was harmful to unprotected lungs. Hurriedly, I sent my Magos Biologis to investigate. He returned with only half his retinue intact, but with plenty of samples. The planet seems to be a minor class of Death World. Probably Theta class, but nowhere near as dangerous as Catachan.

What astounded me was the primitive nature of these xenos. I resolved to have the RDA leaders exectued for incompetence once I had garnered further information. After thorough interrogation, it was revealed to me that a betrayal in the most unnatural form had occured. A human, a group of them, had fallen to the xenos lies and turned against thier kin or, as one of the commanding offficers put it, "He betrayed us for some blue alien bootay!". I then came across some This company had been utilising heretical technology to interface humans with alein forms. This was the gravest of heresies and therefore I justly ordered the Solar Admiral to have entire heretic flotilla exterminated. None survived. My attention is now concerned with this planet. My advisors have informed me that this world is full of useful alloys and metals that could supply an entire sector with much needed materials for centuries. I am concerned though, the astropaths mutter darkly about the planet. Could this race have psykers within thier ranks?

Although this planet is infected with xenos of an extra-heretical nature, I am loath to let such a resource rich world be destroyed. Ground operations have already begun. Thankfully, I have 3 whole regiments of Imperial Guard at my disposal, the 2nd Vandrax Armoured, the 19th Cadian, and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers. We shall cleans this world of the filthy xenos and bring Imperial Order to this untamed land.

Your faithful servant,

Inquisitor Valentino.

+++Transmission Ends+++

Quite a vein of hate here. Interesting. I found it a perfectly decent SF movie whose visuals pushed it over the top.

But wow, you'd think it insulted someone's mother from the way people talk.

I can't say I *love* it, like I love Aliens, Glory, or The New World. But I was very impressed by it.

While it clearly had a simple and well-worn story, it was exceptionally well-directed. As Ebert says, it is not what a movie is about, but how it is about it. And Cameron, while staying safe with his story and characters, excels at the camerawork and visual structure.

I loved the design work and art direction in the film. I loved some of the shots, but I can't say I loved the movie.

I did smile at the Harry Potter comment. HP7 will outgross it? Both "halves" put together won't outgross Avatar. Not even close.

I liked ALIEN and ALIENS (but the two are vastly different movies in genre as well as style).

Avatar was a fine SF movie - and less tedious than TDK (Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman were fine. Heath ledger chewed the scenery a little too much).

As for pacing. Lotr and king kong could've used some of it. Avatar didn't put me to sleep.

Like it, don't like it. The viewpoints ARE polarised and like as not, no-one's opinion will be changed by the arguments.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

+++Imperial Expedition Fleet Update+++
+++985999.M41 The Day of St. Marcus+++
+++Thought of the Day: Idleness begets heresy+++

My Lord Inquisitor,

Recently our expedition has made its way into the Pangea Sector, located in the far South West of the Galactic Plane. We have discovered a splinter group of humanity. Hidden from the rest of the galaxy by millenia of warp storms, they have struggled to survive on thier dwindling resources. Our first encounter was above a habitable planet known as 'Pandora'. They seemed to be staging an evacuation of sorts. After approaching them, and when they had gotten over the initial shock of meeting more of thier brethren, we learnt that they had been defeated by a primitive form of xenos. We also learnt that the air was harmful to unprotected lungs. Hurriedly, I sent my Magos Biologis to investigate. He returned with only half his retinue intact, but with plenty of samples. The planet seems to be a minor class of Death World. Probably Theta class, but nowhere near as dangerous as Catachan.

What astounded me was the primitive nature of these xenos. I resolved to have the RDA leaders exectued for incompetence once I had garnered further information. After thorough interrogation, it was revealed to me that a betrayal in the most unnatural form had occured. A human, a group of them, had fallen to the xenos lies and turned against thier kin or, as one of the commanding offficers put it, "He betrayed us for some blue alien bootay!". I then came across some This company had been utilising heretical technology to interface humans with alein forms. This was the gravest of heresies and therefore I justly ordered the Solar Admiral to have entire heretic flotilla exterminated. None survived. My attention is now concerned with this planet. My advisors have informed me that this world is full of useful alloys and metals that could supply an entire sector with much needed materials for centuries. I am concerned though, the astropaths mutter darkly about the planet. Could this race have psykers within thier ranks?

Although this planet is infected with xenos of an extra-heretical nature, I am loath to let such a resource rich world be destroyed. Ground operations have already begun. Thankfully, I have 3 whole regiments of Imperial Guard at my disposal, the 2nd Vandrax Armoured, the 19th Cadian, and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers. We shall cleans this world of the filthy xenos and bring Imperial Order to this untamed land.

Your faithful servant,

Inquisitor Valentino.

+++Transmission Ends+++

Love it.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers.

Especially this. the Na'vi wouldnt have a chance.

However it is more likely the Imperium would 'simply' sit in a corner around the growing stripmine and build towers to replace the atmosphere. See how youlike 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen xenos scum.

I posted it in hope that someone would continue. Maybe as the log of a soldier in the field, I don't know. Care to give it a go, Orlanth?

apwill4765 wrote:sebster:

Your response is too long to quote. If you re-read, you will see that I also included works that he produced. So yea, I know that he didn't write or direct several of those examples.

So producing a couple of unsuccessful or mediocre works makes someone a hack? You realise by that standard Spielberg is also a hack, yeah?

Titanic takes a lame romance plot of poor boy meets rich girl and puts them on a boat. It sucked.

It is not, in my opinion, among the greatest romances of all time, but it tells the story it was supposed to tell exactly as it should be. The fact that you didn't like it doesn't make it a bad film, and certainly doesn't make it a poorly constructed film.

Again, I think it is reasonable to call Cameron unoriginal (I might or might not disagree depending on context) but 'hack' has a specfic meaning. A hack lacks technical skill - he might lack an understanding of basic story construction, or how to shoot a scene. Ed Wood is the classic example of a hack, he was quite imaginative certainly made brave choices, but he had almost no technical skill. There directors working today that could be called hacks, including some directors who's films I quite like. Terry Gilliam, for instance, is a director of tremendous originality and invention, but he has trouble setting up basic two shot dialogue.

It's a charge that makes no sense being levelled at one of the most technically accomplished directors in Hollywood, especially when he has noticeable weaknesses outside of his technical skills.

And Meet Joe Black is an example of a great romance. If you don't like Anthony Hopkins, Brad Pitt, Marcia Gay Harden and Claire Forlani at their absolute best, then your good movie compass is pretty weird, considering Titanic is on your good movie list.

Hey, if you enjoyed it more power to you. It certainly had some interesting ideas, an excellent cast and great production values. But it was ponderous and let down very badly by a script written by committee - a process that manages so often to work only to undermine theme and remove the individual voices of the writers.

EDIT - You also asked for other movies that used similar plots to Avatar, Pocahontas, Fern Gully and Dances with Wolves. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Emerald Forest, A Man Called Horse and Little Big Man and The Last Samurai.

Dsitrict 9, currently a geek favourite, is actually a take on the same concept, albeit considerably subverted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Quite a vein of hate here. Interesting. I found it a perfectly decent SF movie whose visuals pushed it over the top.

But wow, you'd think it insulted someone's mother from the way people talk.

Geeks tend to be pro-military. Geeks tend to hate it when 'their' stuff goes mainstream.

When a geek film showing a native population defeating a futuristic military goes mainstream, then you get geek rage x 2.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
+++Imperial Expedition Fleet Update+++
+++985999.M41 The Day of St. Marcus+++
+++Thought of the Day: Idleness begets heresy+++

My Lord Inquisitor,

Recently our expedition has made its way into the Pangea Sector, located in the far South West of the Galactic Plane. We have discovered a splinter group of humanity. Hidden from the rest of the galaxy by millenia of warp storms, they have struggled to survive on thier dwindling resources. Our first encounter was above a habitable planet known as 'Pandora'. They seemed to be staging an evacuation of sorts. After approaching them, and when they had gotten over the initial shock of meeting more of thier brethren, we learnt that they had been defeated by a primitive form of xenos. We also learnt that the air was harmful to unprotected lungs. Hurriedly, I sent my Magos Biologis to investigate. He returned with only half his retinue intact, but with plenty of samples. The planet seems to be a minor class of Death World. Probably Theta class, but nowhere near as dangerous as Catachan.

What astounded me was the primitive nature of these xenos. I resolved to have the RDA leaders exectued for incompetence once I had garnered further information. After thorough interrogation, it was revealed to me that a betrayal in the most unnatural form had occured. A human, a group of them, had fallen to the xenos lies and turned against thier kin or, as one of the commanding offficers put it, "He betrayed us for some blue alien bootay!". I then came across some This company had been utilising heretical technology to interface humans with alein forms. This was the gravest of heresies and therefore I justly ordered the Solar Admiral to have entire heretic flotilla exterminated. None survived. My attention is now concerned with this planet. My advisors have informed me that this world is full of useful alloys and metals that could supply an entire sector with much needed materials for centuries. I am concerned though, the astropaths mutter darkly about the planet. Could this race have psykers within thier ranks?

Although this planet is infected with xenos of an extra-heretical nature, I am loath to let such a resource rich world be destroyed. Ground operations have already begun. Thankfully, I have 3 whole regiments of Imperial Guard at my disposal, the 2nd Vandrax Armoured, the 19th Cadian, and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers. We shall cleans this world of the filthy xenos and bring Imperial Order to this untamed land.

Your faithful servant,

Inquisitor Valentino.

+++Transmission Ends+++

HAHAH! Very nice. Saving that.

The movie looked great, but the script was an utter disaster. I hope that it has no lasting impact, most of the visual designs were pretty poor, and the setup was at best thin. It doesn't deserve to last.

Word. Who designed those Mechs? Terrible.

dogma wrote:Word. Who designed those Mechs? Terrible.

The same guy that designed the G.I. Joe toys.

I weep for the people that put him in a position of power.