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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Erm, thought that had all been discussed above Alpharius?
which probably means the thread has come full circle- you may put it out of everyones misery if you wish

again I apologise for dragging up the topic unnecessarily and appreciate the input, as it has helped gain some background into the issue.

Well, to be fair, I did (in a roundabout way!) mention that I had NOT read the entire thread... So, I'm sure that all that I said certainly could have been said!

I'm loathe to lock a thread that will most likely die on its own soon enough though...

phillosmaster wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Na. Its the law. There has to either be an Ork deathrolla thread or a 'whats up with female marines' thread at all times.

The deathrolla problem has been solved forever. I move that it should be replaced with threads about Marneus Calgar and his ability to wield three weapons at once.

In all seriousness I've heard it said several times in these threads that the only people who care about lady marines are dirty old basement dwelling men, but in my experience it's always prospective women gamers who ask me this question.

I think the answer is because GW said it long ago and now they can't take it back.

...

Of course they can. Why are there two missing Primarks?

fair enough, I guess GW said it long ago and now they don't want to take it back.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:okay so the fluffy stuff says that they must be male. But what I now don't understand is how a zygote is deemed male?
The zygote is the initial cell after fertilisation, which lasts about four days before becoming a blastocyst
Determination of gender takes place much later- hence us boys have nipples

I know it's rather late to be replying, but some people are missing the obvious. While sexual characteristics may not appear until later and the initial foetus is indeterminate to ook at, a zygote is determined to be male or female at conception simply because you inherit either an X or Y chromosome from your father which determines gender, making the offspring XX or XY. Barring genetic peculiarities (such as ending up XXY) it's fairly straightforward.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:okay so the fluffy stuff says that they must be male. But what I now don't understand is how a zygote is deemed male?
The zygote is the initial cell after fertilisation, which lasts about four days before becoming a blastocyst
Determination of gender takes place much later- hence us boys have nipples

I know it's rather late to be replying, but some people are missing the obvious. While sexual characteristics may not appear until later and the initial foetus is indeterminate to ook at, a zygote is determined to be male or female at conception simply because you inherit either an X or Y chromosome from your father which determines gender, making the offspring XX or XY. Barring genetic peculiarities (such as ending up XXY) it's fairly straightforward.

Usually but not always have you heard of those who are intersexed?

With these threads it is always going to be an argument, THERE IS NO ONE ANSWER!!! there will always be naysayers and believers, also, when you create fluff, you create your chapter, and geneseeds are not perfect, there could always be a mutation.

Far more prone to OSTEOPOROSIS, and when they have a single plated ribcage, you DO NOT WANT fragile bone.

SRLSY

incarna wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:No more so than anywhere else.

Women have higher pain thresholds than men, anyway.

This is a common misconception. The pain threshold for men and women is the same. While it is true that giving birth is extremely painful, and this is commonly the argument people use as a premise for the assumption that women have a higher pain threshold the consensus tends to be among men and women, even women who have given birth, and doctors of both sexes is that the most physical pain anyone can experience comes as a result of passing a kidney stone. Kidney stones happen in both sexes and they’re equally painful. The pain comes as a result of the irregular object passing through the Uritor (the line between the kidney and the bladder) not the Urethra (the line from the bladder to the outside world).

I can't speak of pain threshold, but pain tolerance is (on average) slightly better in females than males. I'd have to go dig about the uni library to quote the exact paper I saw the study in though. Popular culture speculates that it is due to childbirth but it could well be from other factors or a side effect of something else.

You have to have female SM's in case there is an outbreak of man flu

Women are good for s*x not fighting! Unless it's about shoes.

Women are good for sax?
okay, am sure women are perfectly good for all sorts of other wind instruments too.

Moving sort of back on topic, could someone clarify a question that has arisen from the above discussion please?

The amount of musculature increase has been mentioned.
But would the muscle need to be bulked excessively (male or female) because would the power armour take some/lots/all (or perhaps none) of the brunt of the grunt if you see what I mean?

Powered Armour boosts the wearer's strength by roughly one fifth as given in the rules for Inquisitor; which is in addition to the strength it provides to move its own weight.

How is that relevant though? A Space Marine gains extra muscle. Even if it were possible for a female to be turned into an Astartes (which it is not) she would gain extra muscle to the same extent as any other Marine. The process works the way the process works and whilst Marines do retain some individual characteristics they are very, very similar.

Don't forget that the Emperor's original intention was to create a new race of psychic beings, the Primarchs. After they were scattered He went for the next best thing and used what little data He had left to augment ordinary men to be as Primarch-like as possible.

The background states that there can be no female Space Marines/only males can be Space Marines because it only works with males and that's that unless Games Workshop decide otherwise.

That does not stop you creating your own fan-fiction that allows female Space Marines because you say so but they will never, ever, ever, be part of the official background until Games Workshop changes it which seems unlikely.

Much obliged Gogsnik, thanks for the info.

I've got one thing to say: blood angels "black rage". if you think the guys are bad, wait till the female marines get to that time of the month for the black rage. lol

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Much obliged Gogsnik, thanks for the info.

No worries; it may be a game mechanic but I don't recall any background information that states by how much strength is increased by Powered Armour so it's about as close to a solid number as we can get.

cause stone cold said so!

Dakkadood wrote:Far more prone to OSTEOPOROSIS, and when they have a single plated ribcage, you DO NOT WANT fragile bone.

SRLSY

Women are more prone to osteoporisis because we trend to live more longer than men do and by the time a man starts to show the first signs of it they are usually dead.

True dat

besides a space marines bones are mostly ceramic compounds so any bone loss diesease like Osteoperosis wouldn't have much effect and a space marine will not EVER get a diesease like that anyway.

The lack of female marines is for cultural, rather than scientific reasons. There are no female navy seals or army rangers either...

tigonesskay wrote:

Dakkadood wrote:Far more prone to OSTEOPOROSIS, and when they have a single plated ribcage, you DO NOT WANT fragile bone.

SRLSY

Women are more prone to osteoporisis because we trend to live more longer than men do and by the time a man starts to show the first signs of it they are usually dead.

Osteoporosis is largely driven by a drop in estrogen in women after menopause (~age 50) and a drop in testosterone in men (~age 70). Women are prone to osteoporosis due to two factors – their adult bone structure tends to be slight in comparison to men; they simply have less to lose and – bone development in women is tied strongly to hormonal levels that change dramatically after menopause.

Also, it is a common misconception that the life span discrepancy between men and women is due to biological factors. Men and women live the same lifespan however men are far and away more prone to dying young through violence and/or unnecessary risk taking. The impact of deaths through accidents or violence at a young age simply brings the average down for men but, if you’re male and you’ve survived your teens and twenties, you’ll probably die around the same age as a woman.

Personally I think that them as Battle sisters takes up place instead of them being actual marines

Twisted_Thrasher wrote:Personally I think that them as Battle sisters takes up place instead of them being actual marines

Have recently been wondering about that as a possiblity. Will need to get some background first then decide hoe that plats with my SW army.

possibility is having a dedicated unit poss called Valkyries with lots of Hiya hoo haas and loadspeakers blasting out Wagner
maybe they could be my Thunderwolves

early days yet plenty of time to sort it all out.

Dr. Ew wrote:The lack of female marines is for cultural, rather than scientific reasons. There are no female navy seals or army rangers either...in the US army.

fixed it

first post here on dakka.

I've seen this topic on just about every 40k forum there is, and i have to ask, why is it a huge mystery why GW wont allow female marines?

my 2 cents,

Space Marines = Badass Gothic Warrior-Monks/Emotionless Killing machines.

The Imperium = Grimdark Nazi/Roman/medieval european, Fascist/Theocratic Space Kingdom

why are there no female space marines?

simple, beyond all the pseudoscientific fluff reasons, female marines just dont have a place in a society were mysogny and segregation are a given, particularly in a sub-group of that society modeled on historical warrior orders that were exclusivly male.

the imperium is not an equal opportunity egalitarian utopia.

Sororitas and oh so rare female IG, are exceptions to the rule. relegated to groups that are exclusivly female.

POWER ARMORED BOOBS BELONG IN ANIME!!!! LEAVE THEM THERE!!!

Khalaxis wrote:first post here on dakka.

I've seen this topic on just about every 40k forum there is, and i have to ask, why is it a huge mystery why GW wont allow female marines?

my 2 cents,

Space Marines = Badass Gothic Warrior-Monks/Emotionless Killing machines.

The Imperium = Grimdark Nazi/Roman/medieval european, Fascist/Theocratic Space Kingdom

why are there no female space marines?

simple, beyond all the pseudoscientific fluff reasons, female marines just dont have a place in a society were mysogny and segregation are a given, particularly in a sub-group of that society modeled on historical warrior orders that were exclusivly male.

the imperium is not an equal opportunity egalitarian utopia.

Sororitas and oh so rare female IG, are exceptions to the rule. relegated to groups that are exclusivly female.

POWER ARMORED BOOBS BELONG IN ANIME!!!! LEAVE THEM THERE!!!

There are mixed companies.... also, Female IG are extremely rare model wise, fluff wise, not nearly as rare as the models I think.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that female IG were rare outside of all female units, i could be wrong though.

the only place i can remember reading about female IG was abnetts ghosts series, and even then i think its just a female medic, and a squad leader who always takes flak for being female.

Ciaphas Cain, read it. Starts with two companies (one male, one female) which are added together due to losses.

Soladrin wrote:Ciaphas Cain, read it. Starts with two companies (one male, one female) which are added together due to losses.

-Slaps-
It's Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-counter slaps-
No it Isn't, It's the Ciaphas Cain series, first book, wich is called For the Emperor.

Soladrin wrote:Ciaphas Cain, read it. Starts with two companies (one male, one female) which are added together due to losses.

So the companies are originally gender exclusive but are merged out of necessity? that seems to support what i originally thought.

might give the Cain series a try though, is it anything like abnett's stuff?