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Soladrin wrote:

Dr. Ew wrote:The lack of female marines is for cultural, rather than scientific reasons. There are no female navy seals or army rangers either...in the US army.

fixed it

Thanks for the totally unnecessary fix. Navy Seals and Army Ranges are part of the United States military, so yes, in the U.S. there are no female Rangers or Seals. However in the regular U.S. army and navy their are plenty of women. My point was that for cultural reasons the elite military services (e.g. Rangers and Seals) are restricted to men - women can't join the SAS or the French Foreign Legion either.

Could women fulfill the requirements? I am sure in many cases they could, but I think it is less because of their physical capacity that women are excluded from combat roles, and more because the military leadership believes they would be a distraction to their male counterparts. Of course women were just permitted to begin serving on submarines, so maybe it will change for foot soldiers soon as well.

Khalaxis wrote:might give the Cain series a try though, is it anything like abnett's stuff?

No. Think Flashman in Space and you're there. Very entertaining stuff.

Dr. Ew wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

Dr. Ew wrote:The lack of female marines is for cultural, rather than scientific reasons. There are no female navy seals or army rangers either...in the US army.

fixed it

Thanks for the totally unnecessary fix. Navy Seals and Army Ranges are part of the United States military, so yes, in the U.S. there are no female Rangers or Seals. However in the regular U.S. army and navy their are plenty of women. My point was that for cultural reasons the elite military services (e.g. Rangers and Seals) are restricted to men - women can't join the SAS or the French Foreign Legion either.

Could women fulfill the requirements? I am sure in many cases they could, but I think it is less because of their physical capacity that women are excluded from combat roles, and more because the military leadership believes they would be a distraction to their male counterparts. Of course women were just permitted to begin serving on submarines, so maybe it will change for foot soldiers soon as well.

But space marines are iron willed and would not be distracted, plus, all that armour makes them featurless.

all that brain washing + bromide in their tea would mean that they would not be distracted by females.

Some comments were made about the excessive size of breasts that Femarines would invariably be modelled with. SoB's were mentioned as an acceptable female fighting force, if not up to SM superhuman status.

Sisters of Battle are portrayed in very fetishitic clobber. With very prominent breasts. So am a bit confused as to why there have been complaints against SM females having same?

Please don't misunderstand- the overlarge breasts depicted in anime and manga does nothing for me and don't see a place for it on SM's or SoB's either. just personal preference. but there appears to be a bit of a mixed message going on

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
so is the fluff flawed or please explain what I missed

Gender is determined chromosomes by chromosomes shortly after conception. The ability to determine whether the child-to-be is not within human grasp until a much later date.

How ever, in the fluff, I believe zygote is being used as the name for the first cell of the enhancements to enter the marine's body.

Zygote is a technical biological term which GW use to sound 'sciencey'.

Many real medical terms use Latin or Greek roots so the GW made sciencey sounding names for various SM organs like ossmodula and so on.

True dat Shrike, Space Marines could care less about booty, they only want to please the God-Emperor.

Maybe there are no female Space Marines because women of the 41st millennium simply have enough sense to not bother with such things.

Here's a decent argument for having female space marines.
http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarsgirls.html

Political Correctness- Tyrany of the minority

That was a well worded article

I am however glad 40k is not like other games in several respects. It is more realistic in that there are no female space marines. there are plenty of woman warriors in the fluff and there are many effective female models.

The Emperor, as far as we know, made all the primarchs males. this is the best reason for there being no women SMs, not that it wouldn't be possable. lots of things are possable it is possable for me to win the lottery mug someone for lunch money and dance the macarena on my front lawn in tighty-whities while juggling bananas It is not PROBABLE, but it could happen


Disclaimer-this is not a personal attack, insult, or mock- it is an attack on ing political correctness

and dance the macarena on my front lawn in tighty-whities while juggling bananas

we want to see
hang on- that is NO WAY TO TREAT A BANANA!!!!

I could juggle chickens instead, or would that offend the P.E.T.A people

not as much as it would offend the chickens!

nor come to think of it, the mods for straying way off topic :gulp:

Manchu wrote:There are plenty of female space marines('');

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:all that brain washing + bromide in their tea would mean that they would not be distracted by females.

Some comments were made about the excessive size of breasts that Femarines would invariably be modelled with. SoB's were mentioned as an acceptable female fighting force, if not up to SM superhuman status.

Sisters of Battle are portrayed in very fetishitic clobber. With very prominent breasts. So am a bit confused as to why there have been complaints against SM females having same?

Please don't misunderstand- the overlarge breasts depicted in anime and manga does nothing for me and don't see a place for it on SM's or SoB's either. just personal preference. but there appears to be a bit of a mixed message going on

not i was driving at with the power armored boobs in anime crack, i just meant that in anime sci fi settings generally, but not always, the heroes and villains are represented men/women in equal number. 40k is somewhat more realistic in that the factions have prejudices, cultural bias etc. its hard to argue that women space marines would make the setting more plausible/realistic when women are under-represented in real world military forces as well.

i don't think SoB boobs or costumes are that out of whack, they seem to fit the imperium's aesthetic rather well.

Dr. Ew wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

Dr. Ew wrote:The lack of female marines is for cultural, rather than scientific reasons. There are no female navy seals or army rangers either...in the US army.

fixed it

Thanks for the totally unnecessary fix. Navy Seals and Army Ranges are part of the United States military, so yes, in the U.S. there are no female Rangers or Seals. However in the regular U.S. army and navy their are plenty of women. My point was that for cultural reasons the elite military services (e.g. Rangers and Seals) are restricted to men - women can't join the SAS or the French Foreign Legion either.

Could women fulfill the requirements? I am sure in many cases they could, but I think it is less because of their physical capacity that women are excluded from combat roles, and more because the military leadership believes they would be a distraction to their male counterparts. Of course women were just permitted to begin serving on submarines, so maybe it will change for foot soldiers soon as well.

I think the real reason why females aren't allowed in the speical forces is because the public is still not used to the idea of females fighting in the infintry or in direct combat and they can only be in non infintry units, which makes no sense because those units are often attacked too. If the female is caught by the enemy heaven knows what they would do to her espeically in certain parts of the world where females are beheaded in honor killings and such.

I have a character in my SM chapter fluff that is a woman, she is not a SM, she fills a non-combat role, but she is still an important character (it's more WHAT she is, not what she does, but nevertheless I include her)

Kilkrazy wrote:Zygote is a technical biological term which GW use to sound 'sciencey'.

Many real medical terms use Latin or Greek roots so the GW made sciencey sounding names for various SM organs like ossmodula and so on.

technobabble is the term for it, I beleive.

In the "People are killing Warhammer 40k!" thread, there were femarines that I thought looked really cool, and would not look out of place standing next to Calgar.

as for the sisters of battle armor..... Well, you can't say no to Kick-#$% corsets...

as for the sisters of battle armor..... Well, you can't say no to Kick-#$% corsets

see I was right- the outfit is sooo fetishistic!

Take your point Khalaxis. Some objections to the caricatured female form with bazoobies the size of Japan were made. The S&M SoB uniform is not that exaggerated in fairness.
While not being Silicon Spacebabes there is still an aspect of the SoB cos design that panders to male fantasy.

Also someone mentioned the misogynistic ideology of the Imperium, which is also fair comment

right off to cold shower self flagulation and don my hair shirt to purge all sinful thoughts I now have thinking about all that stuff.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

as for the sisters of battle armor..... Well, you can't say no to Kick-#$% corsets

see I was right- the outfit is sooo fetishistic!

Take your point Khalaxis. Some objections to the caricatured female form with bazoobies the size of Japan were made. The S&M SoB uniform is not that exaggerated in fairness.
While not being Silicon Spacebabes there is still an aspect of the SoB cos design that panders to male fantasy.

Also someone mentioned the misogynistic ideology of the Imperium, which is also fair comment

right off to cold shower self flagulation and don my hair shirt to purge all sinful thoughts I now have thinking about all that stuff.

Again armour that thick would render most featureless.


although this is ok I guess:

That's a Guy. It's far to pretty to be a girl!

Oh really?.....

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:In a recent thread about the role of women in 40K, the point was made that women are not allowed/cannot be Space Marines. The question raised by myself and another newbie has so far been unanswered.

Would be grateful for some input as to why SM's are exclusively male please

Thanks in advance.

The Emperor created his Primarchs in his image, and then from them their chapters of marines in their image. Thus in a way they are all clones of the Emperor- his "sons". Since he's male,logic says that the marines must be too as they are "copies" in regards to organs and abilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IvanTih wrote:Because the Emperor and his scientists created geneseed only for males what's the point in having a female space marine,males are stronger,have hardier constitution and other things.

And women have a better center of gravity and faster reflexes, what's your point?

Thanks Cap'n
yup I agree but don't mind that at all
The image looks like she is too narrow waisted to me. With all the extra organs needed for SM conversion the figure would be different and as you say the armour would mean any curvature would be lost.

Having said that - it is the upper torso that needs the capacity? But then the lower torso needs bulking with musculature and armour to support the upper bulk as compensation.

That anime female space marine sculpt is okay as a decorative piece ( fwiw looks much larger than a 28mm gaming figure) and should be seen only as that imho
But is not what I am thinking of as an exemplar.

Hi Jerbear,
Yes that has been established but thanks anyway.

IvanTih wrote:Because the Emperor and his scientists created geneseed only for males what's the point in having a female space marine,males are stronger,have hardier constitution and other things.

And women have a better center of gravity and faster reflexes, what's your point?

Reflexes won't matter when you're bashed by a fist or some object and you can not say that either sex is better or faster at any given response.
You can evade hits or other things with reflexes,but that won't matter when you're dealing with someone who has a larger strength and hardier constitution.

IvanTih wrote:

IvanTih wrote:Because the Emperor and his scientists created geneseed only for males what's the point in having a female space marine,males are stronger,have hardier constitution and other things.

And women have a better center of gravity and faster reflexes, what's your point?

Reflexes won't matter when you're bashed by a fist or some object and you can not say that either sex is better or faster at any given response.
You can evade hits or other things with reflexes,but that won't matter when you're dealing with someone who has a larger strength and hardier constitution.

You really think that someone who is stronger can always beat someone harder to hit and faster? Watch Bruce Lee some time and rethink your stance!

jerbear1071 wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

IvanTih wrote:Because the Emperor and his scientists created geneseed only for males what's the point in having a female space marine,males are stronger,have hardier constitution and other things.

And women have a better center of gravity and faster reflexes, what's your point?

Reflexes won't matter when you're bashed by a fist or some object and you can not say that either sex is better or faster at any given response.
You can evade hits or other things with reflexes,but that won't matter when you're dealing with someone who has a larger strength and hardier constitution.

You really think that someone who is stronger can always beat someone harder to hit and faster? Watch Bruce Lee some time and rethink your stance!

I've watched Lee many times and reflexes sometimes beat brute strength and both sexes are equal in relfexes,some people are faster and some are slower.
More dakka will beat reflexes.

That flips the thread to "A Justification of Melee Weapons in 40K" or whatever it was called.

Kilkrazy wrote:That flips the thread to "In Defense of Melee Weapons in 40K" or whatever it was called.

Fixed.

jerbear1071 wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

IvanTih wrote:Because the Emperor and his scientists created geneseed only for males what's the point in having a female space marine,males are stronger,have hardier constitution and other things.

And women have a better center of gravity and faster reflexes, what's your point?

Reflexes won't matter when you're bashed by a fist or some object and you can not say that either sex is better or faster at any given response.
You can evade hits or other things with reflexes,but that won't matter when you're dealing with someone who has a larger strength and hardier constitution.

You really think that someone who is stronger can always beat someone harder to hit and faster? Watch Bruce Lee some time and rethink your stance!

Bruce Lee would get destroyed by most of the fighters in the professional MMA circuits.

Because guardsmen might get their way with them and that would be HERESY. Then the guardsmen would be purged. Thinking that they were under attack, the guardsmen regiment would rise to crush the foe, and cause infighting. Then the Emperor would have to waist a braincell to psycicly tell an Inquistor or preist or something to break up the conflict with more purging. This would cause the Imperium to diminish a litle more, and the emperor to get an inch closer to being entirely dead. That is why.