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Hulksmash wrote:Not even counting things like state labor laws which they are pretty much throwing out. How likely is it going to be that they are cool with people closing for 30 minutes for lunch on a saturday.....

Declare the employees are "managers" give them a salary, and a lot of state labor laws no longer apply.

My local GW used to be in a major shopping mall but they've closed down the mall location and moved to a strip mall beside a grocery store, staffed with 1 person, the manager, they let everyone else go. The hours are also similar to what some people posted, Mon/Tues closed, Wed/Thurs short hours etc.

To the people who inquired how this would work logistically, the 1 man staff literally does all those things you wondered about at the same time, to the best of his ability. He schedules academy sessions for first thing in the morning to get it out of the way, then the rest of the day juggles ringing up sales at the cash, giving painting lessons, greeting people at the door, and eating lunch at the same time. He usually ends up eating a cold lunch since it takes him almost 4 hours it seems to finish his lunch on busy weekends.

Some may argue this is highly unprofessional, that he's eating his lunch at the cash register, albeit as discreetly as he can, then attempting to talk to people through a mouthful of chow, but he tries his best. It's corporate's fault, not his. I really feel sorry for him sometimes because on weekends the store is also a 'daycare centre'. It's only been a few months, but employee burnout may indeed be a coming factor.

Also, the store is also indeed messier on average than stores that used to be staffed by 2-3 employees at a time, there's just no time to clean, or eat, or go to the bathroom.

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

Easy to identify maybe, but how are you going to see whos responsible, run a complete inventory count every night?

Well, in the UK here, our local GW is closed on a Tuesday and it's in one of the more affluent areas of the country. It might also open from 12 to 6 on other days.

Also, though there are several employees of the store, unless it's a weekend, a holiday or Thursday and Friday evenings there's only normally the one guy in. Whoever it is does fine pretty much, I think.

I mean, when it comes down to it, weekdays are pretty dead. If I drop in there's probably the staff member, 2 student regulars then some guy in his mid 30's (or more) who works night shifts or whatever.

But yeah, you do notice different strategies being used, for example, they won't play an intro game, but they'll run one, normally by getting 2 newbies to have a go, or the kid and his dad.

And yup, the store does close for half an hour at lunch time and things, including an "everybody out" if it does happen to be busy then it ends up being the Games Workshop expedition to Burger King with all the kids following behind.

@jbunny

They still apply here in California. But other states have varying rules. Salary doesn't solve every problem, just a lot of them

But this is the direction it's headed. Specialty retail doesn't really need 2 people in store all day long or even to be open all day long. I can count the number of times that Sat-Sun didn't account for 60+% of my week (closer to 80% when I worked for GW). Makes perfect sense to me. Just hoping their careful about how they go about it based on each states labor laws.

When I worked in Alabama managers were not required by law to take breaks, no lunch. Also companies could not get in trouble if they did not allow a manager to take a lunch. But every state is different.

CCotD wrote:My local GW manager relayed this same story... really sad. Supposedly this is how the shops are run in the U.K.. Is that true? Can a fellow UK gamer who visits GW stores be able to comment on that?

I really like the people in the store. What's sad is this news has them all bummed which in turn has dampened their enthusiasm for the company and the products they sell. Image being told that one day soon only one of you will be left.....

The upside to the bad attitude is that it let me get my hands on the new BA Codex before anyone else in my area. A little, "What are they gonna do, fire you?" goes a long way!

jbunny wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Not even counting things like state labor laws which they are pretty much throwing out. How likely is it going to be that they are cool with people closing for 30 minutes for lunch on a saturday.....

Declare the employees are "managers" give them a salary, and a lot of state labor laws no longer apply.

oh dear.

You do realize you just cannot call people managers right - they actually have to manage something. There is a large list of what qualifies as an "exempt employee" and a "non exempt employee" - just paying them a salary and calling them a manager doesn't just cut it. Also, rules vary from state to state and if you get it wrong one huge ass law suit is soon to be following.

It all depends on what they have to do, and what resoniblities they would have.

Everyone should know that the situation will gradually get worse due to GW's self-defeating marketing strategies. People who originally like to play these miniature game are getting older. The requirement for a tournament keeps getting higher and higher that new comers find them hard to catch up. Teenagers prefer Xbox360 or PS3, not painting miniatures. Those who liked are mostly looked upon as being weirdo. So, enjoy GW as much as possible because it will be gone in another decade.

CCotD wrote:My local GW manager relayed this same story... really sad. Supposedly this is how the shops are run in the U.K.. Is that true? Can a fellow UK gamer who visits GW stores be able to comment on that?

I really like the people in the store. What's sad is this news has them all bummed which in turn has dampened their enthusiasm for the company and the products they sell. Image being told that one day soon only one of you will be left.....

My local to work GW is The Plaza, Oxford Street, cenral London. There are never fewer than three staff in attendance, often as many as five.

OTOH one time I visited the High Street Kensington shop there was only the manager, late on a Saturday afternoon.

wildger wrote:Everyone should know that the situation will gradually get worse due to GW's self-defeating marketing strategies. People who originally like to play these miniature game are getting older. The requirement for a tournament keeps getting higher and higher that new comers find them hard to catch up. Teenagers prefer Xbox360 or PS3, not painting miniatures. Those who liked are mostly looked upon as being weirdo. So, enjoy GW as much as possible because it will be gone in another decade.

While it's easy to see things this way, that's the way gaming's always been viewed. Thirty-something years ago kids sitting around playing D&D were the weirdos because they did something other than gettin' high and groovin' out. Twenty years ago people playing the same videogames you're saying are killing the gaming community were the weirdos. Gaming's always been on the edge of what so-called normal people do in their free time, but hopefully despite the general retarderation of the world it will continue to stay there, clinging on the life, waiting for the precious few open-minded people who enjoy such things to discover it.

From what I am understanding, Mr Kirby has come to the US, thought his plane had turned back to the UK, and commenced slashing store hours because he thought that for the hours he was gone, mass hiring and store hour increases appeared?

This guy seems like an idiot. The US is NOT the UK. We run stuff MUCH differently here. I REALLY hope GW treads lightly with how they run labor here. If they do too many cuts, mess with hours too much, the US Government gets involved, and this could get ugly.

I think as the community, we need to find something we can do. I honestly think that buying in store and paying the sometimes outrages prices now might be a good idea. Sure its expensive, but if it keeps your local store staffed, with free paint and tables, and stocked, I dont see a problem. I guess we could look at the store prices having a "tax" add on for use of the paint and tables. Sure, support your FLGS, but for those of us who dont have one, we NEED a GW to be able to play at and use. I hope that things improve, or there might be some dark and scary times ahead for all of us.

The US is NOT the UK. We run stuff MUCH differently here.

I've had that same conversation with friends more than once and when we heard Kirby had taken over the US we feared he would try to run it like the UK business and due to the differences in the US cause the business to fail. We shall see.

This is definitely confirmed here in LA. Here are my local store's hours:

Store Manager
Ray Stakenas
Telephone
805-492-8800
Upcoming Events
More Tanks! March 20th
Sat, 20 Mar 2010 - Sat, 20 Mar 2010

The Drums of War - March 13th
Sat, 13 Mar 2010 - Sat, 13 Mar 2010

Hobby Center WH Tournament Rd 2
Sat, 27 Mar 2010 - Sun, 28 Mar 2010

More Information

Opening Hours

Monday - Closed

Tuesday - Closed

Wednesday - 1pm - 8pm

Thursday - 1pm - 8pm

Friday - 1pm - 9pm

Saturday - 1pm - 9pm

Sunday - 12pm - 6pm

Most days it's one employee (the manager Ray) who will either close the store for lunch or have a Redshirt come in for a half day to make those things happen.

Let's not assume Mr. Kirby is a complete moron. He is a businessman and will be following all applicable labor laws. When I worked for GW we would generally split the day with two employees. I would open, my partner would come in half way through. While both of us were there we would do lunch breaks, bank deposits etc... Then I would go home and he would close.

Let us also remember that GW is fleeing from Mall stores in droves. The rent is simply too high especially in Southern California in malls. That was a corporate edict more than 2 years ago and it is already starting to happen. This gives them more control over their hours and rent.

I'm not saying Kirby is a saint by any means, simply that this isn't the end of the world as we know it.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that this is not the most convenient for us the consumer, but this one man store concept is being used by many different companies right now. Lucky Brand jeans used to have a strict two employee in the store policy to avoid employee theft. Due to budgetary cutbacks they have rescinded that policy close to 2 months ago.

Ah so the Ventura store is finally open! Coolio. I'll have to let my friends in the area know. They've been pissed at the only other place that carries GW not having the basics in stock.

As for following applicable law what I heard the other day says they are sticking to the one man policy in the Los Angeles area (may be different for ventura/thousand oaks since they are so far out. the two stores should share 1-2 extra employees). And don't assume that just cause your a good businessman you can keep track of seperate labor laws straight. I recently worked for Luxottica Retail (sunglass hut) which is a huge retail/distribution company and they don't give lunch or 10's in their mall stores. In fact when I informed them of this issue I was rather quickly shown the door. Some companies think they can "get away" with it.

Common sense would say that 3 stores should share 2 extra redshirts and that those employees would bounce from store to store. This is severely hampered by the silly direction they went a few years ago that got rid of part time employees. Maybe common sense will come back and they'll go back to part time employees.

The store in Philadelphia just moved from a mall location to a strip mall. I went there this Monday to find out not only is it only open 1-9pm but that it's closed on Mondays and Tuesdays.

hungryp wrote:Canada's getting hit too. At first it seems like this belongs in its own thread, but GW Canada is done now. They shut down Canadian HQ and distribution centre, even took away our Games Day with the rest of the American ones other than Baltimore.
Word is they're pulling out of malls every chance they get to avoid having to open Mondays because that's their slowest day. I thought this seemed ridiculous, but after visiting the next closest store to me (since my mall store is getting shut down in two weeks), turns out it's true.
I'd say Fishboy nailed it on the head. I just hope this isn't the beginning of the end. If GW goes the way of WotC, WH is dead to me.

WotC did it because Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: the Gathering don't go through ridiculous price hikes every year. They also are better served at privately owned gaming stores where the doors can stay open until midnight to house weekly role playing groups and Friday Night Magic. WotC is doing fine.

GW offers a product that requires hours to play, assemble, and paint. Again, the FLGS will house that environment much better than a GW store designed solely for the purpose of moving merchandise. Being open during normal business hours is a death sentence in the gaming industry. Most "geeks" aren't available to do their geeking until outside of those hours.

Whatever allows for a better, more streamlined, and hopefully cost effective game: I'm all for it.

Opening a retail store later than 10am on a Saturday is just so full of fail it's not even funny. On weekdays I can understand it but SATURDAY? I think they underestimate how many shoppers in their mid-30's like to get their shopping done early because they have kids or other things they need to do.

I spend hundreds each month at GW, always before 10:30 am on Saturdays. Another FLGS never seems to get a dime from me because they dont open until 1 pm on Saturday. By that time I'm back at home and finishing lunch.

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

But isn't the community aspect what drives new recruits and impulse buys? If all a store provides is merchandise, who will go there in lieu of just shopping online (other than to steal gak, I guess)?

And if it is their plan to slowly push people online, how do they intend to get exposure? I'm really curious about their long-term plan, if they even have one. They impose Draconian restrictions on private retailers that has them reducing GW inventory in favor of competitors*, they close their Canadian HQ, they remove all official events from North America, and now are stepping up their gradual phasing out of their brick and mortar operations.

If I didn't know any better (and hey, perhaps I don't), I would think they are liquidating the company. With the cancellation of 2010 events, they promised new and better things. Let's hope they intend to steal a page from Privateer (just look at their site, the awesome new League system, massive narrative campaigns 2-3 times a year, and general transparency into their inner workings). One can only hope.

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

mattyboy22 wrote:

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

Well we forgot that each army only cost GW $25

mattyboy22 wrote:

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

I worked for companies that had a policy that if a manager quit the company would preform a mini inventory to make sure they were not stealing anything on the way out.

brassangel wrote:
WotC did it because Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: the Gathering don't go through ridiculous price hikes every year. They also are better served at privately owned gaming stores where the doors can stay open until midnight to house weekly role playing groups and Friday Night Magic. WotC is doing fine.

GW offers a product that requires hours to play, assemble, and paint. Again, the FLGS will house that environment much better than a GW store designed solely for the purpose of moving merchandise. Being open during normal business hours is a death sentence in the gaming industry. Most "geeks" aren't available to do their geeking until outside of those hours.

Whatever allows for a better, more streamlined, and hopefully cost effective game: I'm all for it.

What I was getting at was, if Warhammer starts to suck as much as D&D has, I'll be a sad little panda.

Since Wizards took over D&D, and was subsequently taken over by Hasbro, it's gone to hell. They've been just as bad as, if not worse than, GW for releasing a new edition, putting out a whole bunch of supplements, then releasing a new, mostly unnecessary edition that makes half of what they released irrelevant. Not to mention the fact that it's stopped being a role-playing game as far as I'm concerned.

Their "adventures" have become nothing more than a cluster of combat encounters, with no concern for what happens between them, or any sort of character development. 4th ed D&D is little more than a WoW wannabe with mini's rather than pixels. 40K has been going through a similar childification, and if it gets worse, GW will have successfully alienated the people who have gotten them where they are.

Retail stores are really looking for a way to 'stand out' and I'd guess GW has decided that trying to kill online retailers isn't working. Pretty much any store that isn't a 'walmart' is hurting these days, as margins are very tight.

Stores facing this can go one of two ways, it seems: they can become social centers, and look to income from other sources. For a game store, this would be events, table rental, and similar. A dive shop I deal with is doing this as well... They carry less stock (but can order it) but are ramping up training courses, trip planning, and other related income producing activities.

The other route, which it appears GW is taking if these plans are true, is to go to a minimal store presence to keep the name out, and not much else. They have stock, can do a little 'sales' work as needed, but aren't really there for much else. The store is just for 'quick fix' impulse buys, people who don't shop online, and similar.

Ok, i got some more information earlier this week.

Every store has one store operator to its name.

There will be two roaming operators that only work during vacations or other operators

No more Academy

Pay of about $14 an hour starting

Everyone thats wants to stay with GW is losing any veteran status, because on April 3rd everyone is getting layed off and they must reapply for the positions

No regional manager

No area manager

I know for my store, half the tables belong to the manager, so my store will be left with 3 tables.

No store ran events

Fridays and saturdays are the only days that has free gaming for all

The positions will most probably be filled by newer/younger players because the older veterans can't afford to live on $14 an hour

i'll try to get some more info soon

I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

But they seem to undercut their own retail wherever they can, what with no shipping and "Direct" items that you have to buy online.

Direct only items should be in the shops. It gives the impulse buyer with online experience a reason to go to the physical shop.

It is still "Direct" from GW. I can't get it from a OLGS or FLGS.

Cutting the morning hours on weekdays makes sense, but the late Saturday start is dumb.

Also, the one staff per shop will bite them more than it saves, IMO. The local GW is usually packed enough that 2 staff are too busy to nadle everything.

With one staffer, people will just leave without buying.

I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

For the last 5 years they have been, but that's all apparently changed now.

BrassScorpion wrote:

I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

For the last 5 years they have been, but that's all apparently changed now.

Have they really?
I didn't get that impression.
If you don't game in the store, and you have an internet connection, there is absolutely nothing to draw you there, in a retail sense.

At least if they carried the Direct items like the Deathrolla Sprue, I might stop in now and again.

I visit my local GW now, only for the BL books.

Edit for clarity.

terminus wrote:I'm really curious about their long-term plan, if they even have one. They impose Draconian restrictions on private retailers that has them reducing GW inventory in favor of competitors*, they close their Canadian HQ, they remove all official events from North America, and now are stepping up their gradual phasing out of their brick and mortar operations.

If I didn't know any better (and hey, perhaps I don't), I would think they are liquidating the company. With the cancellation of 2010 events, they promised new and better things. Let's hope they intend to steal a page from Privateer (just look at their site, the awesome new League system, massive narrative campaigns 2-3 times a year, and general transparency into their inner workings). One can only hope.

I highly doubt they're phasing out their retail chain. They're just reworking it. My bet is that Kirby is still trying to forcefit the UK model in the US. He may be right that it can work, but there are certainly a lot of folks who aren't convinced.

Perhaps we should give Kirby more credit, but as I said earlier, corporate executives usually aren't the most flexible, adaptive individuals. They tend to have a strong philosophy that they feel works, and try to make it work until they succeed or fail. In the latter case, they blame the people under them, lots of blood is spilled, and then the new generation tries to implement the executive's plan. That or the executive leaves for a better job. YMMV.

Not saying there aren't good corporate executives or that Kirby is a bad one. Just saying in my experience they tend to be very single-minded people who are much more used to being listened to than listening to others.

Regarding changes at GW, I wouldn't hold my breath about big campaigns, events, etc. I think the trend here is perhaps even more contraction on that front.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Liquidice281 wrote:Everyone thats wants to stay with GW is losing any veteran status, because on April 3rd everyone is getting layed off and they must reapply for the positions

Ouch. That's called "corporations behaving badly."