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Some stores not being reduced to one person have still had their staff reduced. I know of one store that is now down to just the manager and one part-time employee.

Note that the fact that GW US is now using part-time employees again is a major shift in hiring philosophy of the recent past. For several years now GW US has deliberately hired only people they believed would be career employees and has deliberately not employed any part-timers. The new leaner store staff philosophy has clearly altered their willingness to use part-time staff to fill modest gaps in store hours coverage.

jbunny wrote:

Necros wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if this is a good time to start a biz or if I should just shelf my plans and keep the dead end day job...

Both.
Ideally you want to be able to open a store and still have your dead end day job to help supplement your income for a few months.

Nah I don't have enough spare time as it is, no way I'd be able to run a store plus work somewhere else full time. And I don't want to hire someone to run my store for me, in fact I'm gonna be the sole employee for quite a while till I get off my feet. The whole idea is to have my livelihood in my own hands, not someone else's

Sarigar wrote:At least U.S. wise, it is an interesting read on the GW page regarding Real Estate. Despite the diminishing numbers of employees at stores, it appears they are looking to expand in the U.S.

Which again means that they're committed to the retail chain, and suggests that Kirby still sees value in trying to blanket the country (or at least certain metro areas) with their stores as they do in the UK.

Davor wrote:I find it funny many people here keep saying GW just selling their own product is a bad business. Really? I guess that is why they are still in buisness and you are complaining about them.

There is this GW store in a big shopping Center. I swored up and down, it would only lat 6 months because any shot that opened up in the exact spot didn't last for more than 6 months. Well 10 years later they are still there. If the buisness didn't work, I don't think they would still be there for 10 years or more. Espically where rent is very expensive, and they survive for 10 years or more. So they must be doing something right.

So the buisness of them selling their own product does seem to be making them lots of money. It might not make any sense, but it does work. Otherwise the store wouldn't have lasted this long as it did.

What GW is doing is the definition of bad business, much the same as the stuff currently being perpetrated by credit card companies due to the new regulations that will come into effect at the end of the year (they won't be able to randomly change APR anymore, so they are jacking peoples' APR to 40%, and demanding immediate payment, etc. look up Bank of America on youtube for testimonials). Not only do they have no respect or consideration for their customers, they apparently hold their loyal employees in equal contempt.

Rather than try and improve their market share by making their product more widely available, they impose ever more stringent restrictions on venues, and seem content to maintain profits by selling fewer and fewer products, to fewer and fewer people, for more and more money. This is working for them now due to the borderline criminal profit margin of 70% on their plastics, and the fact that their primary target of adolescents with allowance money don't really care/understand what they're paying for and how much they're paying for it, as long as it's shiny and keeps their attention for a few moments. You can read all about their master plan in their financial report. Like most bubbles, it is bound to burst eventually, though, at which point they will probably blame their customers and employees.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necros wrote:yay! I was wondering how long it would take this thread to turn into a trolling flamefast...

Personally, I'm glad 2nd edition is long gone... "OK I'm done moving. Let's stop playing with our army men for a minute and play cards. Ok, done, time to shoot stuff lemmie grab my tape measure... Wait, anyone seen my wargear cards? the were here a second ago..."

The games & rules are always gonna be messed up to some degree and you can't make everyone happy. I don't play for the rules I play for the models and the models are the better now than they ever have been.

But, on topic.. it does kind of suck that they're cutting back but it's a sign of the crappy economic state we're in all around. It worries me a bit because I am planning to open a game store one day, not soon but in a while. Sometimes I wonder if this is a good time to start a biz or if I should just shelf my plans and keep the dead end day job...

Honestly, starting a hobby shop is a risky endeavor in the best of times, but doing so in today's economic clime borders on downright foolhardy.

[MOD EDIT - NO personal attacks, OK?]

terminus wrote:When they announced the cancellation of all 2010 tournaments, they said they had something special in store for 2011. I hope whatever it is they are doing succeeds, because honestly I've invested too much time and money into their products over the years not to want them to prosper and expand (if only for more people to kick around with my apparently cheesy IG codex).

Wait? Carp! Did I miss something? The 2010 Tournies are cancelled?

Vale,

JohnS

There are no official events this year except 'Ard Boyz, and only one Games Day (in Baltimore).

Terminus, you are aware of the GW-supported indy circuit and its finals in Vegas in 2011, right?

Don't know if any of you read plastic legions, but John writes about some of the workers
being affected by these cuts as he talks to them and games with them.

http://plasticlegions.blogspot.com/2010/03/tale-of-two-black-shirts.html

terminus wrote:When they announced the cancellation of all 2010 tournaments, they said they had something special in store for 2011.

"Something special" without qualification is generally a cause for fear, not celebration...

Are ALL stores really going down to one-man? That's what that blog post says (from malfred's link). I thought for sure the store in the mall near here still has at least 2 staff working at a time. There's certainly usually 2 or 3 of them in there... although maybe they're not all on the clock.

Obviously the hours change hasn't applied to them, since they're in a mall, so maybe the "1 employee" working rule hasn't, either. I haven't noticed it, at least...

Balance wrote:

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

If it is Glen Burnie, what really good employees are gone from the shop?

The stores John writes about are street shops.

deitpike wrote:

Balance wrote:

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

If it is Glen Burnie, what really good employees are gone from the shop?

Don't know, but Glen Burnie may be seen as 'the US Bunker' as it's the GW HQ for the country (although the rumors seem to be that they're moving that, too, as production isn't done there anymore).

Answering some questions and clearing up some possible misconceptions from above:

1) Not all shops are going down to one man. It depends on whether or not the hours can be cut enough to make that practical.

2) The Glen Burnie store is a Battle Bunker and the offices in back are an HQ. Some HQ functions were transferred to Memphis when that facility opened a few years ago and some were kept at Glen Burnie. The Glen Burnie HQ is about to close forever and the Battle Bunker will be moved. New locations for the Bunker are being scouted between D.C. and Baltimore. All HQ functions will be in Memphis after June 1, 2010.

Terminus wrote:

Plus, I'm no doctor (at least for another two months, Chaos willing! ), but given your difficulty with the rudimentary memory tasks of 2nd edition, you may have early onset Alzheimer's. I suggest you see your PCP, there are a few nuclear agents showing great promise for diagnosing and differentiating Alzheimer-related lesions.

I'm just wondering, Dakka mods, how many Dakka rules this piece of verbal diarhea violates.

Sounds like somebody got confronted with rebuttals to his feeble arguments, went to bed full of nerdrage and woke up on the douchebag side of the bed this morning...

@DG: Alert his post (yellow triangle) to find out!

I'll even help.

Balance wrote:

deitpike wrote:

Balance wrote:

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

If it is Glen Burnie, what really good employees are gone from the shop?

Don't know, but Glen Burnie may be seen as 'the US Bunker' as it's the GW HQ for the country (although the rumors seem to be that they're moving that, too, as production isn't done there anymore).

That's fine and dandy.
I just didn't notice any "GOOD" staff gone from the GB bunker any time recently, was wondering who I might be missing?

It's a shame that they chose to take this route, I think they must be listening to bad advice or have their heads up their own a$$es or something. I know we are in a recession and what not, but I think they coiuld have realy used it as an oportunity to expand their base rather than alienate them. Consider that dureing a recession, people have, in general, less disposable income. Consumers then have to decide how to get the most out of their entertainment dollar. What I think winds up happening is that folks basically stay home and try to entertain themselves as cheaply as possible. That means renting DVDs and takeing fewer trips to the movies, eating in instead of going out, etc.. Consider that GW's customers were already spending alot of their recreation time and budget on buying GW merch and playing wh40k or wh, at home or in a friends home. I am no economist, but it seems to me they could have lowered their prices, or run sales to try to get hobbyists to expand their collections and attract new customers. Sure, it would cut into their 70% profit margin, but once this recession ends,(and they always do), GW could start back with the price increases, only with a larger base of customers. I, for one, don't appreciate the fact that they have pulled out of Georgia, they have only one gamesday for my entire continent, and are constantly bending me over with new price hikes and fewer models for me to choose from. I have already had to cut waaay back on my hobby spending, and any new price hikes are going to force me out alltogether. I do,however, find irony in the fact that a company who sells strategy games has such a poor business strategy...

I know GamesWorkshop employees read this forum. However, I'm fairly sure the higherups do not.

That being said, cost cutting was inevitable. GW sells more miniatures than any other company and sells them at a higher price than any other company. If that's true, why aren't the miniatures making money?

Simple..cost.

So all this stuff the higherups are doing are a numbers game.

So why don't the higher ups ask the people running the stores (especially the successful ones) what's the best way to cut cost and make stores profitable?
I guess that would be too easy.

If there's one thing GW is slow to learn about, it's that every region, every store, every place has a different set of circumstances. They are so focused on a set bottom line and a standard set of rules that they forget the human factor of it.

Each store needs to be able to adapt to its region's rules, regulations, circumstances, and culture. Restricting each store to working a certain way is a certain recipe for disaster.

If each store is to be profitable, then EACH store needs to do what it needs to do to be successful.

The restrictions, the requirement to sell, the rules...this is how how you wind up with red shirts trying to sell space marine command squads to a non-marine player.
Which is utter fail.

Of course, one man stores in cheaper locations will cut cost. There's no doubt about that. But profitable? They're missing the point.

In the end, they're forgetting what's really important. I've talked before about being an employee and having higher ups fire back at me, "What about this? What about that? WHat about this cost?"

Well as a customer...Let me do the same. What's my motivation as a customer to buy from a GW store? In the end, as a customer, the GW stores are a terrible value. I can get stuff faster, cheaper, and tax free on the internet. If the stores do not provide a service and their product is more expensive than somewhere else, what chance of being profitable do they have?

THis is a simple, fundamental business question that none of the changes GW is doing will answer. If it's about making money, it's about making each store profitable, not cutting cost regardless of store.

Utter fail.

There's an interesting interview with Rick Priestly further down this forum in which he gives a little insight into how they expanded in the beginning. While I partly agree that everywhere is different, the GW expansion method has been done throughout Europe. The main gripe as I see it is that players won't be able to hang out in GW stores. Given how much people spend each month on average in their stores there's not much in it for GW if all they are doing is providing a place to play without people buying products in significant amounts each month. Dedicated fans will buy products and play regardless of there being a local store. Also many of the higher ups in GW play other games and come from a time in wargaming when there weren't family friendly stores and everything was done by mail order.

@Scuddman

You have to have excellent managers to do what your stating they should do. The reason no single major retail chain does it on a store-by-store basis is it presupposes having an excellent, intelligent, dedicated, and driven manager. At the rates they pay these are not always what they get. Which would wind up costing them more money due to mismanagement then they are likely to lose going to a solid plan model. Just a heads up on that.

Terminus wrote:

Rather than try and improve their market share by making their product more widely available, they impose ever more stringent restrictions on venues, and seem content to maintain profits by selling fewer and fewer products, to fewer and fewer people, for more and more money. This is working for them now due to the borderline criminal profit margin of 70% on their plastics, and the fact that their primary target of adolescents with allowance money don't really care/understand what they're paying for and how much they're paying for it, as long as it's shiny and keeps their attention for a few moments. You can read all about their master plan in their financial report. Like most bubbles, it is bound to burst eventually, though, at which point they will probably blame their customers and employees.

Not to defend GW too much, since I have have my fair share of spite, but 70% profit margins on a molded plastic part is no that bad. Having designed for a company that made similarly sized plastic parts I can say 70% isn't bad. We charged a 150%. When you look at GW as a whole their profit margin is tiny. They had £100M of revenue and only claim £7M profit. That a 7% profit. If you include the money they used to pay off debt, you're looking at 17% profit. Both are sad for a company of GW's size.

One thing I think GW could do to increase profits may seem a bit backwards. They need to reduce prices. My FLGS sells at 20% off GW price (and still make a decent profit) so I feel I can reasonably conclude that GW could reduce price by as much as 30-40% and still make money. Many people may think this seems odd but I play tyranids and would love to buy the raveners but I just can't justify spending $15 per piece on plastic models the size of terminators.

I know I'm not the only one as well. There are a few older guys (50+) at my FLGS who recently got back into the hobby & still use their rogue trader / 2nd ed models. To quote one of them "I would love to use the new Terminator models but I refuse to pay $50 for 5 of them when a 10 man tactical squad is only $35, and that's still a bit high."

So I feel if they reduced their prices I would be willing to buy more. Even a small reduction would help, assume they drop tac squads to $30 instead of $35.

I get my tax return and intend to spend $100 of it on GW stuff. 35*3 = 105 so I'll only buy 2 boxes. (I usually just walk in with $100 cash to avoid over spending). Now if we assume they drop tac squads to $30, 3*30=90 and I'll still have enough money to pay the tax on it.

Anyway that's my 2 cents on how they could help the hobby out long term.

On a side note I just looked at the GW site & 10 bloodletters are $22.00 (Usable in fantasy & 40k) but 10 tac marines are $35.00. seriously. . . wtf.

Many people may think this seems odd but I play tyranids and would love to buy the raveners but I just can't justify spending $15 per piece on plastic models the size of terminators.

Neither could I. If I hadn't been lucky enough to grab a few boxes for $31 US each off of eBay I never would have done a 9 model Ravener brood.

GW has really been pushing the limits of pricing lately. Sometimes they win and people find the models worth it, such as with the Kill Kans set, and sometimes they lose and most people won't buy it even if it's for their favorite range, for example, the Greatswords. The fact is, even with the transition from metal to plastic every army has at least one unit that seems cost prohibitive because buying the sets in quanitity to build a large unit is just too far out there from most hobbyists or gamers consider reasonable.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I know I'm not the only one as well. There are a few older guys (50+) at my FLGS who recently got back into the hobby & still use their rogue trader / 2nd ed models. To quote one of them "I would love to use the new Terminator models but I refuse to pay $50 for 5 of them when a 10 man tactical squad is only $35, and that's still a bit high."

lol, i don't believe you. if there were truly a bunch of 50+ year old guys who played back in RT/2nd edition, they'd be saying "i refuse to pay $50 for 5 terminators when they used to be $5 each and marines used to be 30 for $20! hurr! cough... cough...".

Many of us "old timers" from the Rogue Trader days do use our older models still in our armies and we buy new models too. When the list price seems too outrageous, we turn to eBay and mail order discounters just like nearly all "hobby vets" these days.

no complaints here. i've got a 4000pt blood angel army that i play that is all mostly second edition and older figs. the only things newer than 10 years old in the force are the space hulk termies.

God forbid that a company have a viable business model that actually turns a profit for the owners/share holders of said company. God forbid that they change their business plan to account for the economy or an increased profit demand from their owners/share holders. As a consumer you have a right to disagree with their business plan (discontinuation of products/games) by NO LONGER BEING THEIR CUSTOMER.

As a business owner, I am continually amazed at the lack of knowledge on not only running, but maintaining a successful business.

Blasted customers! They ruin everything!

/begin ramble

Shas'O Dorian wrote: My FLGS sells at 20% off GW price (and still make a decent profit)

Your FLGS is crazy.

Perhaps they are in a cushy lease, perhaps its just one guy and his wife working so they have no payroll, perhaps they have a store the size of a kitchen cabinet with 1 table, but by discounting 20% they sacrifice almost HALF their margin, assuming they use GW itself as their supplier. If they are going through alliance or some other distributor, they are sacrificing MORE than half of their margin.

Any economist, businessman, or person with an IQ over 12 will tell you that is no way to run a profitable retail business. I just laugh my proverbial *ahem* off when people use a horrible business model and/or horrible business practices to blast GW's sound business and fiscal decisions.

What other company is at the CUTTING EDGE of the wargame hobby industry? What other company has invested anywhere close to as much cash into their production quality as GW has? What other company provides such highly detailed, highly posable, purely beautiful models as GW? What other company is doing ANYTHING CLOSE to producing a kit like the Trygon or the Valkyrie? Privateer Press, with their "posable" "plastic" models? Battlefront and their infantry the size of my thumbnail?

The other thing that makes me spit soda all over my monitor while laughing is the notion of "Haha, GW, I beat you!!! I bought my models from an online discounter/E-Bay/20% off!!!!" Silly mouthbreather, GW still got theirs. You know who didn't? Your FLGS. The local guy who put his ass on the line, who in this economy is probably keeping the lights on by licking his fingers and sticking them in his neighbors electrical socket to arc the electricity to his store. THAT is the person you hurt, not GW.

You don't like GW making sound business decisions? Stop supporting them. Simply stop buying their product, period. Buying it on E-Bay still gets GW their 55% of MSRP. And trust me, I can attest to this on a DAILY basis, for every "older guy" refusing to update their asstastic 2nd ed. models because the new, amazing plastic terminators are $50 there are 10 new customers who think that gak is smoking hot and can't wait until next payday when they can pick theirs up.

To sum up (and I wish I could remember what movie this quote is from - I want to say Demolition Man, but I can't be sure): "I bet you would have banned the internet just to keep the libraries open."

(Yeah, I was right, it was Benjamin Bratt's character.)

Or to translate into something Forrest Gump's mom would say so he (and everyone else to thick to understand the concept of cutting expenses) could understand it: "Common sense is as common sense doo-usss."

/end ramble

edited for lawl spelling mistake.