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Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

It does matter, actually.

If I'm playing a game and both I and my opponent are having a terrible game, rolling an excessive amount of failed rolls, missing our reserves until late in the game... Yeah. It's going to affect my enjoyment.

I'd rather have a game that was equally as close, with both of us rolling average. Crappy rolls do affect the way you perceive the game and, thus, your enjoyment of it.

Eric

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Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





the flat 48

Dashofpepper wrote:
Quientin wrote: But what about "touch my dice and i break your arm, unless you wash your hands first"


Hrm.

I'm sure that you also roll your regularly cleaned dice in a hygenically sterilized dice box covered in protective cloth, right?

Because its not like the tables you're rolling those dice on are ever cleaned, or haven't been manhandled by everyone, with everyone elses dice all over them, their hands, models, ass-crack juice, cheeto-fingers, KFC juices or whatever else you fear.


I have a big tin lid that I roll them in.... and i germx em before they go back into the crown royal bag.... SAFE FROM YOUR ASS CRACK JUICE HAHA. Metals easier to sanitize than cloth. Cmon dude you have noticed the standard in gamer hygiene haven't you? were not all like that but everyone has bad habbits and some have more than most. And you forgot nose pickers...... eeeewwwww

You say you hate it but you wont do anything about it? What the serious ork? 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






This whole not wanting people to touch my dice due to various body juices argument is fallacious. Don't you shake your oponents hand before or after you play them? I assume you at least offer them your hand at the completion of the game and say "Good Game".

GG
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





the flat 48

haha I do not offer my hand, but i will shake one offered to me.... and then wash or germx. maybe I am more of a Germaphobe than I previously thought. Curse my EMT training!

You say you hate it but you wont do anything about it? What the serious ork? 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Alexandria

insaniak wrote:
kill dem stunties wrote:As long as they issue good square sharp edged dice from a quality manufacturer like gamescience and not some off balance rolls 1s/6s 33% more often than 2-5s like chessex and other crap makers of dice that just import Taiwanese made super polish tumbled dice.


If everyone's using the same dice, does it really matter?

The whole point of issuing dice is to ensure that everyone is on an even field. Not necessarily to ensure that everyone is using perfect dice.


Yes it really does matter, a 1 is not the same for all armys, ig players could give 2 craps about 1, 1 and 2 are pretty much the exact same to them, and they cna like rolling that 6 an extra 16.6%, whereas thats extra dead wolf guard for the space wolf player =/

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





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kill dem stunties wrote:
insaniak wrote:
kill dem stunties wrote:As long as they issue good square sharp edged dice from a quality manufacturer like gamescience and not some off balance rolls 1s/6s 33% more often than 2-5s like chessex and other crap makers of dice that just import Taiwanese made super polish tumbled dice.


If everyone's using the same dice, does it really matter?

The whole point of issuing dice is to ensure that everyone is on an even field. Not necessarily to ensure that everyone is using perfect dice.


Yes it really does matter, a 1 is not the same for all armys, ig players could give 2 craps about 1, 1 and 2 are pretty much the exact same to them, and they cna like rolling that 6 an extra 16.6%, whereas thats extra dead wolf guard for the space wolf player =/


Actually, the chessex dice aren't flawed towards rolling more sixes, they're flawed to roll more 1s. IE, instead of a 16% chance of rolling a 1, you have a 26-29% chance.

   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

Redbeard wrote:I'm all in favour of standardized dice. Stick a logo on them, and they become a souvenir.

You could even avoid the issue of hotel-room modifications by randomly (say, even or odd table number) having people trade their boxes of standard dice at the beginning of each round. You'd never know if you would be swapping or not, so modding your dice high or low would be a big gamble either way.


This is genius.

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Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander







Totally against supplied dice.

1. I get dice that matches my army. I am superstitious, and I don't cheat, nor do 99% of the people out there. When a cheater is caught, they get banned.

2. I injured my right hand a few years ago rock climbing. I have a hard time picking up little dice, so dice would have to be the larger type.

3. At some point, people are going to have to trust one another to do the right thing. I've turned my back on a game to answer a rules question. When I turned back a dreadnaught had magically moved about 12 inches towards my chappy. If we are going to monitor and make sure dice are fair, what about having a judge at every table to monitor moves? Make sure each move is 100% accurate?

4. What about people who have learned to make blanket rolls etc? Are we going to have judges monitor how someone uses dice too? To be honest, its easier to make a controlled roll than it is to use loaded dice. I have loaded dice. You can eventually spot them....Maybe the tournament should require all rolls to be made in a cup....

5. Paint scores....is it fair to have Dave Taylor paint my army, and I get a max paint score while Timmy works hard but is unskilled....Is that also not cheating???

6. Base sizes....are we going to standardize them? What if I make my own and add maybe an eighth of an inch...that could be the difference between getting a charge off or not. Or making my bases smaller, to reduce template blasts hitting me....again, a small cut can make a difference.

7. Number of dice counted out for to hit rolls etc....its very easy to palm a dice or three and thus get extra shots. Can we come up with a way to make sure dice counts are accurate?

8. Bluetooth head seats....how do we know someone doesn't have a spotter who walks by and notices something and calls the player to tip them off? Should we ban all cell phones etc?


Sorry for the rant, but the whole dice thing is silly, and asking tournaments to provide dice increases the cost and logistics for the organizers. If you get picky about the dice, then it leads to a slippery slope where people will find something else to complain about.

If you want to play a game where it is almost impossible to cheat, try chess.

I just had a thought....some armies are more expensive to build then others. How about we put a cash limit on all tournies, so richer players don't have an advantage over poorer players? Or maybe handicap an expensive army somehow....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/12 07:09:15


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Prospector with Steamdrill




I'd be for it - but as mentioned, need to have at least 2 colors. 18 Black with White pips, and 18 white with black pips. Easy enough.
   
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Fireknife Shas'el





Reedsburg, WI

I would be fine with the tournie supplying the dice

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Made in us
Privateer





The paint dungeon, Arizona

I think people would rather blame the dice for cheating, rather than look at the more common places the cheating takes place.

Most dice cheating takes place during the tallying of results- theres alot more fast grabbers and miscounters than there are dice loaders.

And measuring/range/movement hacks. We've seen vids of some of these turds recently.

If people are willing to pay 2-5$ extra per tourney to reduce dice cheating- maybe it would make more sense to hire some security people to watch things Vegas style and reduce the more common sources of cheating.
   
Made in us
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





585NY

as for the 'losing dice' problem...
40k and minis games like it are, by nature, for mature people with time and money to build, convert, and paint...
if you are playing in a gt, then it means you have atleast three digits in your IQ; keeping track of a brick of dice shouldnt be too much of an issue for most of us...
but if one is lost//misplaced//eaten//exploded//whatever, then they could simply have more to sell when people lose them...

i like the idea of having standardized dice for tournaments, with either logos or colors to give them some meaning outside of being more dice...
and im sure some of the better dice manufacturers can easily solve the lack of a scatter and artillery dice in a standard block of dice...

on that note, da boyz gt in rochester this year will be providing gf9 TAC Templates to players this year, each of them with a name and logo on the side of them...
i saw one of them a few days after the order came in, i cant wait to get mine at the gt ...

 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





the flat 48

Mistress of minis wrote:I think people would rather blame the dice for cheating, rather than look at the more common places the cheating takes place.

Most dice cheating takes place during the tallying of results- theres alot more fast grabbers and miscounters than there are dice loaders.

And measuring/range/movement hacks. We've seen vids of some of these turds recently.

If people are willing to pay 2-5$ extra per tourney to reduce dice cheating- maybe it would make more sense to hire some security people to watch things Vegas style and reduce the more common sources of cheating.


May be extreme but i designed a security system at a club that had problems with ID's. I put a camera in the ceiling angled perfect to catch the ID when the door man held it up to the light and UV light to check for fakes. a similar system could be employed where there is a dice tin with overhead camera to the side of the table. No fast hands. But the con to this is that its like calling everyone a cheater. I guess another pro to this would be more highly detailed battle reports.

If someone is that desperate to cheat, deep down they know that they have never won a game in their life.

but i do love souvenirs, Id be down for some dice.

You say you hate it but you wont do anything about it? What the serious ork? 
   
Made in us
Privateer





The paint dungeon, Arizona

Cameras are hard security- theres no feasible way to get one on every gaming table at a tourney venue. Vegas can afford to because gambling is a money machine- but aside from GW, no one is really making big money on 40 k

The hard part would actually be finding someone that knew how to spot the various types of exploits- and spotting dice exploits for 40k would be nigh impossible without someone parked on top of a game watching every detail.

But- thats not what security is really about- its about visible deterrent- knowing theres a willingness to hold them accountable rather than letting it slide then posting vids on the internet a week later.

   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





the flat 48

it would be about 50$ per table. reusable, resellable electronics. dice off the camera never happened. then again if it was that big of a problem we'd just throw down a laptop with a dice generator and a logger. Cant blame the twist of the wrist. weight, shape, or fast hands. cept for scatter dice.

now for the making money. People will bet on anything. Maybe we can start a website. set it up like off track betting. treat the players like the jockeys and the armies like the horses.


Oh and by overhead camera i mean the cheapest pawn shop special/ k-mart discount bin camera on a tripod pointed down. not a nice one in the ceiling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/14 08:40:49


You say you hate it but you wont do anything about it? What the serious ork? 
   
Made in us
Privateer





The paint dungeon, Arizona

Quientin wrote:it would be about 50$ per table. reusable, resellable electronics. dice off the camera never happened. then again if it was that big of a problem we'd just throw down a laptop with a dice generator and a logger. Cant blame the twist of the wrist. weight, shape, or fast hands. cept for scatter dice.

now for the making money. People will bet on anything. Maybe we can start a website. set it up like off track betting. treat the players like the jockeys and the armies like the horses.


Oh and by overhead camera i mean the cheapest pawn shop special/ k-mart discount bin camera on a tripod pointed down. not a nice one in the ceiling.


You're not taking into account the actual costs. You might be able to buy a camera for 50$, great. You then need to install it, tripods are not cheap, you'll need extension cords to plug them in. Now you have a bargain basement camera mounted over a table. This is even assuming the tourney venue would allow something like this (most will not as the tripod would take up space and be a trip hazard).

A low end camera is lucky to differentiate faces, let alone read pips on a handful of rolled dice. You'd need a cam with at least an 4x optical zoom to consistantly read dice. But that doesnt solve anything.

Your 50$, that doesnt count a monitor to watch this camera. It doesnt include a DVR to record it. And it doesnt include a person sitting there watching the montor either. One person cant watch that many games either- you'd get better results with someone on the floor watching the games in person.

If you did get all of that in place- how it the person watching supposed to know how many dice the gamers are rolling? what they need for successes? Monitoring dice rolls via security system is a impractical notion.

The only practical way to stop dice cheating- is to pay attention to your game.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






It's unnecessary to give out dice at events.

In poker a few people will collude and cheat but it really doesn't help them very much because you won't do well in the first place if you aren't a good player. You have to be a great player to have a good chance at placing highly in the standings. Usually cheaters are people who don't put alot of effort into learning how to play, they look for easy ways to increase their chances.

Cheating can really backfire. I know of one 40k player who was known to use loaded dice but rarely placed in the money of a small 10-14 player tournament. He mixed up his dice one day and was rolling straight 1's for rending and 12's for leadership. I played another player in a game of L5R who stacked his deck but he wasn't very good and I beat him even though I was at a serious disadvantage.


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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Ephrata, PA

I agree with everyone in the part of dice cheating really dosent matter too much. But if they wanted to have custom tourney dice in 3 or more colors that you could take home, I'd be all for it. And cookies

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Cookies would be good. Oatmeal raisin, or Berger cookies, or maybe they can get the girl scouts to sell some Samoans....

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Scuttling Genestealer







This is exactly why I don't play outside friendly games in the basement. People get edgy, people get competitive, people can't just expect the other person to do the right thing.

But as far as supplying dice, it's for a good cause, but unfortunately it's just not practical.
Instead, officials/whoever should inspect the dice a player uses before and after every game. I've heard this is easily done by tossing dice in a bucket of water. Loaded dice will always float one side up.

And you guys that are picky about people touching your dice.. get over it. o_o; It's a plastic/wooden cube with holes. Your dice will not be "ruined" if someone other than you touches them for inspection. Just my thoughts.

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USA

Wait, you think supplying dice is impractical but having a judge test each die of each player by tossing it in a bucket of water is?

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Hellacious Havoc





the flat 48

Mistress of minis wrote:
You're not taking into account the actual costs. You might be able to buy a camera for 50$, great. You then need to install it, tripods are not cheap, you'll need extension cords to plug them in. Now you have a bargain basement camera mounted over a table. This is even assuming the tourney venue would allow something like this (most will not as the tripod would take up space and be a trip hazard).

A low end camera is lucky to differentiate faces, let alone read pips on a handful of rolled dice. You'd need a cam with at least an 4x optical zoom to consistantly read dice. But that doesnt solve anything.

Your 50$, that doesnt count a monitor to watch this camera. It doesnt include a DVR to record it. And it doesnt include a person sitting there watching the montor either. One person cant watch that many games either- you'd get better results with someone on the floor watching the games in person.

If you did get all of that in place- how it the person watching supposed to know how many dice the gamers are rolling? what they need for successes? Monitoring dice rolls via security system is a impractical notion.

The only practical way to stop dice cheating- is to pay attention to your game.


agree with all points. I didnt hit a lot of tourneys back in the day because of the headaches involved with people and their paranoia of cheating/ throwing minis and dice on a poor round. but if something like i mentioned would help ease the minds of the overly paranoid and easily frustrated then they are welcome to it. Heres a thought for you though. Paying attention to your game is personal responsibility. Are people who are quick to blame dice and/or cheating for a bad turn prone to your radical ideals?

Ive heard things in this thread that quite frankly make me sick because Im sure the stories wouldnt be here If someone hadnt tried them. Stretchy tape? self moving tanks? I am almost glad Ive missed 2 editions of this game.

Back to the dice topic. If loaded dice are created by drilling em hollow on one side and patching the hole, wouldnt it be prudent to make the dice clear with black dots so you could see if they had been tampered with?

You say you hate it but you wont do anything about it? What the serious ork? 
   
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Imperial Agent Provocateur




Scotland

Personally I never got the whole "these are my dice these are yours " thing. I only get funny about it if we are playing with the same type of dice and thats just to make sure mine don't go walk about.

My local GW at one point had a system where each table had a wee folder with a tape measure, set of templates and 30 dice. This worked really well and solved a lot of problems.

I also we to an event at Warhammer World once where they did the same thing. It wasn't compulsory to use them but it was good they were there.

I've only encounter dice cheating once. Guy was using those big dice they gave you with appocolypse (they got the mechanius symbol on them). He was clearly placing them, which is dead easy cos they are so large. I didn't call foul outloud but I did tell the ref, dunno if anything came of it.

Regarding the transparent dice, thats certainly how the casinos do it, s'why most of their dice are clear plastic in one form or another.

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Water-Caste Negotiator





I really hate it when some kid has dice with symbols to represent 6's and 1's and what he said was a 6 once is then a 1 later etc.

I use a block of green GW dice (the ones that came in a bigger plastic dice) plus the old metal tin of 40k dice + black reach ones too, to give you the 3 or 4 different weapons you may be firing. I think making people use GW dice or providing them per table would work best. I'd have no issues with paying a few extra $$ to have new nice per tourney though.
   
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Scuttling Genestealer







AesSedai wrote:Wait, you think supplying dice is impractical but having a judge test each die of each player by tossing it in a bucket of water is?


Yes indeedy. It's free to throw dice in a bucket.

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Privateer





The paint dungeon, Arizona

anooci wrote:
AesSedai wrote:Wait, you think supplying dice is impractical but having a judge test each die of each player by tossing it in a bucket of water is?


Yes indeedy. It's free to throw dice in a bucket.


Not really, gotta buy a bucket, gotta have someone sit there and drop the dice in, clean up the mess of fishing them out...

In a bigger tourney this is going to take even more time away from gaming. Then you have to assure people don't switch the dice etc etc.

This is pretty ridiculous as the people that load dice are probly less than 1 in a thousand. Yet through paranoia and a dose of internet forum 'OMGWTFBBQ' people suddenly think this is why they're losing every game. I guess its easier to blame someone for cheating than it is to realise they jsut beat you because they played better.
   
 
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