Dead Marine's father ordered to pay protesters' legal costs

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**Marshal2Crusaders**

Soladrin wrote:
Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Seriously, I hate Westboro Baptist Church. Seriously.

Things like this is why I've never had any hope in humanity as a race.

Because I hate Westboro Baptist Church. Holy gak I am waaay more important than I thought.

**Fateweaver**

Kilkrazy wrote:Anyway I've been spaced out so there.

You can't ban protest within x distance of a school because it would prevent schoolchildren from protesting. Their right to free speech has already been upheld in some decision about a T shirt.

We talking pre-college children (under 18)?

Not poking fun but here in the States I've never in my life pre-HS children and even HS children protesting on HS property. I know many who held up "baby killer" signs in select areas around town when the soldiers returned home from Iraq but never actually seen a protest held on school grounds anywhere that wasn't the university campus.

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:Anyway I've been spaced out so there.

You can't ban protest within x distance of a school because it would prevent schoolchildren from protesting. Their right to free speech has already been upheld in some decision about a T shirt.

Actually it wasn't the distance. the case involved other factors. I remember that thinking-now there's a kid in serious need of a

slap.

proscriptions on speech in public schools have been upheld on many occasions. Its an itneresting topic, but not one I care about much.

**JohnHwangDD**

Heya, Phelps, that's a nice family you got there...

It'd be a real shame if anything were to happen to them...

**Kilkrazy**

Fateweaver wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Anyway I've been spaced out so there.

You can't ban protest within x distance of a school because it would prevent schoolchildren from protesting. Their right to free speech has already been upheld in some decision about a T shirt.

We talking pre-college children (under 18)?

Not poking fun but here in the States I've never in my life pre-HS children and even HS children protesting on HS property. I know many who held up "baby killer" signs in select areas around town when the soldiers returned home from Iraq but never actually seen a protest held on school grounds anywhere that wasn't the university campus.

16-year olds or something. I don't remember the details of the case.

Frazz is probably right that there are cases against too. That is what keeps lawyers in business!

There are two points: 1) New legislation may well fall foul of existing law, 2) it can have unexpected side effects.

**Frazzled**

IIRC it wasn't law but school policy vs. 1st Amendment. There are various federal and state/municipal criminal laws designed to reduce crime that limit "things" within distances of schools. Some of those things already touch on free speech. Most of those have been upheld.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

iratollah wrote:I would post pictures of these hate monkeys from when they visited Houston in January, but it would violate forum decency requirements.

I monitored WBC at three locations and had a few interesting interactions with them and managed to frustrate some of their plans. They thrive on negative attention. At the Holocaust Museum they were completely shut down by motorcyclists revving their engines. That the bikers, (and this was not an official Patriot Guard Riders group), chose the Holocaust Museum memorial as the place to take a stand against these hate mongers speaks volumes to the character of those riders who came a very long distance on a very cold morning.

What made Shirley Phelps totally loose her cool was when a Christian with a Bible told her, "We forgive you." She went ape over that one, it was really amusing listening to her cursing and losing her composure over someone making a very Christian comment to this 'devout' and 'pious' creature. One of her daughters froze in contemplation when I asked her "Wouldn't you rather be shopping at the mall, my daughter will give you a ride and show you some cool stores." It's borderline child abuse how Phelps is raising her daughters to be so hateful.

WBC supports itself on lawsuits against people who obstruct their freedom of speech. They will videotape your response to them. They are highly organized and very sophisticated in knowing how far they can push the limits of the law.

These fine Americans pictured below took a stand against hate on a very cold morning. When WBC started spewing their venom, these riders turned their backs on them and started revving their engines to drown out the hate speech. The museum opened their doors early to provide hot coffee to the riders and about half of them stayed for a private museum tour. The docent told me it was one of the best groups he's taken through the museum and it was a moving experience for all. If any of you are interested in taking a group from your church or other organization on a tour of this museum, PM me and I'll arrange a private tour.

**SlaveToDorkness**

That picture is pure AWESOMESAUCE!

Even being a Christian and having plenty to lose I would still be sorely tempted to mow these people down like traffic cones with my car if I saw them with those signs on the side of the road. They can't sue me if they are dead! lol

**Emperors Faithful**

I have to admit, that's a very rousing picture and a touching story of people standing up for what's right. But could you tell me who the heck 'iratollah' is?

**Slarg232**

iratollah wrote:I would post pictures of these hate monkeys from when they visited Houston in January, but it would violate forum decency requirements.

I monitored WBC at three locations and had a few interesting interactions with them and managed to frustrate some of their plans. They thrive on negative attention. At the Holocaust Museum they were completely shut down by motorcyclists revving their engines. That the bikers, (and this was not an official Patriot Guard Riders group), chose the Holocaust Museum memorial as the place to take a stand against these hate mongers speaks volumes to the character of those riders who came a very long distance on a very cold morning.

What made Shirley Phelps totally loose her cool was when a Christian with a Bible told her, "We forgive you." She went ape over that one, it was really amusing listening to her cursing and losing her composure over someone making a very Christian comment to this 'devout' and 'pious' creature. One of her daughters froze in contemplation when I asked her "Wouldn't you rather be shopping at the mall, my daughter will give you a ride and show you some cool stores." It's borderline child abuse how Phelps is raising her daughters to be so hateful.

WBC supports itself on lawsuits against people who obstruct their freedom of speech. They will videotape your response to them. They are highly organized and very sophisticated in knowing how far they can push the limits of the law.

These fine Americans pictured below took a stand against hate on a very cold morning. When WBC started spewing their venom, these riders turned their backs on them and started revving their engines to drown out the hate speech. The museum opened their doors early to provide hot coffee to the riders and about half of them stayed for a private museum tour. The docent told me it was one of the best groups he's taken through the museum and it was a moving experience for all. If any of you are interested in taking a group from your church or other organization on a tour of this museum, PM me and I'll arrange a private tour.

Hey look, there is a god....

I would totally do the jail time needed to kill these

**ShumaGorath**

I would totally do the jail time needed to kill these

Then whats stopping you.

**JohnHwangDD**

Maybe he lives in a state which supports Capital Punishment, vs Life Imprisonment?

**Slarg232**

ShumaGorath wrote:
I would totally do the jail time needed to kill these

Then whats stopping you.

your pretty high on the list too, and I dont know where you live

**Emperors Faithful**

Phenominal Bragging Powers!!!
Teeny-weeny testicles...

**ShumaGorath**

Slarg232 wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
I would totally do the jail time needed to kill these

Then whats stopping you.

your pretty high on the list too, and I dont know where you live

Orono Maine. Come on down, I love hashing it out with people on the internet.

**Slarg232**

Duly noted, though I have some others I need to take care of first. Namely, a few ex-girlfriends and that

Whom I attacked his fists with my face.

**Fateweaver**

Blocking punches with your face doesn't work very well Slarg.

It's like trying to block a dick punch. You'll just punch yourself in the nuts. LOL.

Don't kill Shuma. Who will I have to insult me and act all high and mighty on the OT board? Dogma? Alba likes to insult me but he doesn't come off thinking he's better than anyone else. At least that much I can give him props for.

**ShumaGorath**

Fateweaver wrote:Blocking punches with your face doesn't work very well Slarg.

It's like trying to block a dick punch. You'll just punch yourself in the nuts. LOL.

Don't kill Shuma. Who will I have to insult me and act all high and mighty on the OT board? Dogma? Alba likes to insult me but he doesn't come off thinking he's better than anyone else. At least that much I can give him props for.

Gold star good job!

**Geemoney**

As a christian and a church goer that really bothers me....please don't anyone think that the loud/annoying minority represent the majority of churches. What they do has nothing to do with what the Bible actually teaches.
*I'm talking about the OP.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Yeah, about 5 minutes with the Bible or a Pastor would clear up their idiotic ideas.

I'm wondering how they can use the term "Baptist" in their name?

**Emperors Faithful**

Me thinks mattrym would be very happy in his pants if he saw this thread..

**Albatross**

Tyyr wrote:Given that their speech is made intentionally to incite people to violence or litigation wouldn't it fall under the fighting words provision and therefore NOT be protected speech?

This?

We have this in the UK - 'Incitement to Violence' I believe it's called. I believe in freedom of speech and assembly UP TO A POINT. No one should have the right to camp out in my front garden bearing placards proclaiming that I'm a baby-eating nazi. No matter how true it is.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

Tbh I don't get angry with this lot, I just pity the poor kids raised under that nutters deranged views.

Oh and I'm laying bets on that fact he's either had a homosexual experience, or has had thoughts about it, and this was his way to deal.

**Albatross**

Fateweaver wrote: Alba likes to insult me but he doesn't come off thinking he's better than anyone else. At least that much I can give him props for.

Woah, really?!!? Leaving aside the fact that I'm in shock that you would actually give me 'props' for ANYTHING, when have I insulted you? I know we've actually had a few little ding-dongs on here, but you have your views and you're entitled to them - I don't have to agree with them or like them. I don't even have to think they are particularly healthy!

Despite that, I actually quite like you - certainly more than some other people on Dakka (who shall remain nameless). Sorry if you think I've insulted you, or if I have done so carelessly. No hard feelings on my side, mate.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Albatross wrote:

Despite that, I actually quite like you - certainly more than some other people on Dakka (who shall remain nameless).

0 HAI!!1!

**Albatross**

Fun for all the family. Except Nana.

She thinks wargamers worship Satan.

It's not you MGS.

**Frazzled**

Emperors Faithful wrote:I have to admit, that's a very rousing picture and a touching story of people standing up for what's right. But could you tell me who the heck 'iratollah' is?

A poster.

**Tyyr**

Albatross wrote:
Tyyr wrote:Given that their speech is made intentionally to incite people to violence or litigation wouldn't it fall under the fighting words provision and therefore NOT be protected speech?

This?

We have this in the UK - 'Incitement to Violence' I believe it's called. I believe in freedom of speech and assembly UP TO A POINT. No one should have the right to camp out in my front garden bearing placards proclaiming that I'm a baby-eating nazi. No matter how true it is.

Fighting Words

From my perspective WBC's MO is to go to these places and intentionally try and start something so they will have a basis for a lawsuit. Given this how is what they do protected free speech? They're trying to incite people to violence or confrontation by what they're doing. They're not making a political statement they're starting a fight. That's not protected free speech.

If there was no pattern of them starting things and then suing for big bucks I might be inclined to say that they might, as distasteful as it might be, have the legal right to do it (not that I think the should. You should be able to bury your loved ones in peace regardless of who they are). However their MO is using this schtick to generate lawsuits and get money. I can't see how that's protected Free Speech.

**Albatross**

@Tyyr - I was agreeing with you. Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me - some of the stuff they put on their placards seems like an 'Incitement To Violence' or in this context, 'Fighting Words', to me.

**Frazzled**

Generally thats not how it works here though, but the argument could be made.

Incitement to vioelence has to be immediate and realistic. Think a speaker with a gun in his hand trying to get a mob to go burn down XX's house RIGHT NOW.

Fighting words are designed to start a fight RIGHT NOW. Its extremely rare that that defense/claim is effective.

A simple distance ordnance would be much more effective and has routinely withstood scrutiny.

**Kilkrazy**

Is there a way to find out how many times Westboro have sued for damages, how many times they were successful and how much they have been paid? (Not won, because sometimes they would be chasing a straw man.)

It would be interesting to see if they actually make decent money at it.

Perhaps they just genuinely hate homosexuals?