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Well if you don't like the advice then don't take it. lot's of different things work for lots of different people. It seems like you are saying the only way to competitively play orks is kan wall which is not true and it seems most people agree with sluggas over shootas

ChocolateGork wrote:Well if you don't like the advice then don't take it. lot's of different things work for lots of different people. It seems like you are saying the only way to competitively play orks is kan wall which is not true and it seems most people agree with sluggas over shootas

Have you read the entire thread and if so do you comprehend it? I was never saying that Kan Walls and were the only way to run orks. I will however argue that there are very few situations where Sluggas will beat Shootas. On the charge, if they can shoot, Shootas win, at ranges over 12" Shootas win, when behind a screen Shootas win. Only when running to make and assault, or in the turns after an assault are Sluggas better. The math proves this.

As for why I continue to argue, I argue this point so new ork players aren't stuck with a crap army that they lose with. They'll be able to see the numbers, and hear those that actually know what they're doing talk about things.

Actually, give me a day or two to work on how to use Vassal and I'll play you a game. Orks versus Orks, Slugga versus Shoota. We'll see who wins.

Well by your logic shoota's only win behind a screen because if they ever fire their guns then they are in danger of being charged . And what if the new players don't want to play behind a freaking screen? i think 30-60 slugga's in front of another 150-120 is screen enough don't you? Also sluggas are more likely to survive being charged by truck boys.

You can run Shootas the same way, 6 maxed out units all strung out in long lines marching forward. They shoot, you charge, then they shoot you your first unit away with the lines behind their front, and the front unit (formerly unit 2) moves up, shoots what used to be your rank 2 and charges for the win. I would make for a very interesting case study actually.

Also, their screen need only work for one charge as you need to declare all charges before my models move. So I can stop up an entire army of charging ork sluggas with 30 grots walking in front of kans and dreads. Not to mention the fact that you can't kill my nasty dreads and kans with your shooting because by your logic orks should run every turn.

On trukk boyz, I personally wouldn't use them anymore, to many lists can shoot them up before they can close and even when hey do close there are many units that hey can't kill on the charge. If I did use them I certainly wouldn't send a loan squad in against a full mob of boyz unless said squad had a warboss in it.

I noticed you didn't accept my challenge or refute it either. Are you worried you might lose to a guy who hardly ever plays orks?

But the silly kans get blown away by lootas

Oh and i did the math and if i did it correctly just 1 squad of slugga truck boys defeats a thirty strong squad of shoota boys on the charge

And you dont seem like someone i would like to play that much but anyway i looked at vassal (never heard of it before) and i couldnt find the 40k module for it.

ChocolateGork wrote:But the silly kans get blown away by lootas

Oh and i did the math and if i did it correctly just 1 squad of slugga truck boys defeats a thirty strong squad of shoota boys on the charge

And you dont seem like someone i would like to play that much but anyway i looked at vassal (never heard of it before) and i couldnt find the 40k module for it.

Of course they do, eventually. However with 2 shots each a 15 strong squad of lootas will on average only deal 1.25 damage results of any kind to a unit of kans covered by a KFF. So it looks like again your math is flawed.

As for the trukk boyz, on the charge you'll kill on average 14 boyz while losing 7 of your own. Next turn the shootas will beat you due to numbers though their squad will be reduced to hardly anything.

As far as a game goes, I'm a pretty good sport and I don't tend to rules lawyer mostly because I'd sort such things out in advance. I tend to play lists that I think will win mainly because I feel it's easier to build fluff around a sound army than to do things the other way around. However it would seem that a game between us to prove my point won't happen...

Really I think this whole thread has devolved into troll baiting. Norade has made his point.

ChocolateGork, he's not taking your advice, he's disproving it and without much difficulty.

You know, I have to agree with Eyclonus. Most of the salient points were made by page 2.

If you plan to shoot, get Shootas. If you plan to get into CC before you shoot, get Sluggas. If you don't plan to do either, then you is mukking about.

Yeah, seeing as he turned down a game I'm going to bow out. Hopefully new players will see the good advice and take it before they take the bad.

Gitzbitah is right if you want to shoot then shoot if you want to run to get to close then use sluggas. Thats just my opinion and i think they are better you obviously disagree so yeah... bye

Sorry, I just can't leave this, even in assault Shootas win if they can shoot even once before charging their target. They will win by the same margin for no retreat, and will lose less in doing so.

lol fine yeeaaahhh yyouuuu wwiiinnn i now agree