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Still adifferent country so your argument falls on its face. Thats of course disregarding actually researching all the joys humanity has done to istelf over the millennia. We are vicious little buggers.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Well, no arguments on that front, humanity sucks. I'm still waiting for Shuma's biblical death camps though.
Legal Peculiarity: technically the British refused to recognize the American POWs as prisoners of war, but rather categorized them as traitors, which the laws of the period stated that execution was an acceptable punishment.
And Elmira was in New York during the Civil War.
On Andersonville: Wirz was tried, and found guilty (and hanged). In fact, as I recall, it was one of the first War Crimes tribunals.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/05/17 20:59:24
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
BaronIveagh wrote:
Oh well. I suppose you should start hoping hard now that the DOW doesn't do a nose dive like it did the other day. Of course, with Greece turning the Euro to dust, I'm making good money buying from Europe and selling in the US.
My investments are well protected from fluctuations of the US market. The only reason I'm concerned at all relates to concern for my family.
BaronIveagh wrote:
But seriously, I'd like to see it all come down. Jefferson suggested, IIRC that a country needs a revolution every 200 years or so. I think that the US is heading toward that as it grows more and more polarized and the Government seizes more and more power. Look at New York. Taxes are approaching the point the population cannot bare them, and the state is still not able to make payroll.
What taxes, specifically? I know that the American populace has born federal income taxes in excess of 70%, so I find it hard to believe that the current tax rate is the center of the matter.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
BaronIveagh wrote: I'm still waiting for Shuma's biblical death camps though.
Sodom and Gomorrah.
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
Frazzled wrote:Everything is biased. Other outlets are particularly eggregious as well (NBC, MSNBC, CBS). Its the only news one thats biased right wing. Its refreshing.
MSNBC, sure. CBS and NBC? Not so much. Bias is a matter of degree, and the sort of palpable distortion that confirms a suspected bias is only present in MNSNBC and FOXNEWS.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Frazzled wrote:Everything is biased. Other outlets are particularly eggregious as well (NBC, MSNBC, CBS). Its the only news one thats biased right wing. Its refreshing.
MSNBC, sure. CBS and NBC? Not so much.
Rathergate must have been a figment of our collective imagination then.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
Actually, the highest federal tax level was 94% on all incomes over $200,000 a year, in 1945. Adjusted for inflation, that's incomes over 2.3m dollars a year. The average person made nothing near that, and was taxed far less.
The income taxes for the average person, however, have more or less steadily increased: currently the average person pays somewhere between 25% and 30%.
Now:that's just Federal.
New York additionally taxes: sales (7.78% in this area) trees (based on estimated value of timber), property (*can* be up to 50% of the value of property), unemployment insurance payouts, gas and cigarettes (currently in a legal battle with Seneca nation over this) internet transactions (including out of state ones such as amazon and ebay), cattle methane emissions, sugar and paper (does that sound familiar to anyone else?) and the 'tax tax' where you are taxed on your taxes (not joking).
And those are the ones off the top of my head. Currently according to most sources, we have the highest taxes per capita in the US.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/17 22:54:42
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Yeah, it can be perceived any way the observer wishes, but its isn't a necessary indication of bias. The necessity of bias was the distinction I made in my original post.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
dogma wrote:Yeah, it can be perceived any way the observer wishes, but its isn't a necessary indication of bias. The necessity of bias was the distinction I made in my original post.
Well, rushing documents that made Dubyuh look bad onto the air by liberal journalists without bothering to authenticate them could be argued pretty strongly to be bias don't you think?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/17 23:15:36
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
Monster Rain wrote:
Well, rushing documents that made Dubyuh look bad onto the air by liberal journalists without bothering to authenticate them could be argued pretty strongly to be bias don't you think?
Not when the motivation to publish first is also present. News agencies very often rush things to air before authentication. Having interned at a major news outlet I can tell you that their fact checking is little more than an "Is is plausible?" question.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/17 23:22:54
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
That is changing though. Many news agencies are shifting to an 'expert panel' approach as they cannot keep up with bloggers in terms of speed. Of course, the 'expert panel' is countered by infotainment. It will be interesting to see which one wins out, the trust rating of CNN encourages me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/17 23:27:24
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
dogma wrote:That is changing though. Many news agencies are shifting to an 'expert panel' approach as they cannot keep up with bloggers in terms of speed. Of course, the 'expert panel' is countered by infotainment. It will be interesting to see which one wins out, the trust rating of CNN encourages me.
You mean like Fox News has been doing for years? Then there's this, which I think is poignant and thoughtful...
Frazzled wrote:Exactly. People have a beef with Beck and are derisive about Fox, but don't seem to have a beef with ABC putting on Lost. Both networks run non-news programming.
It'd be a problem when Lost begins running a campaign encouraging people to get out and protest against the smoke monster, including telling people about every 'grass roots' rally that's going on. Then ABC news gives extremely generous coverage to every 'grass roots' rally protesting against the smoke monster.
Oh, and for the record, Shep Smith's coverage of the news on FOX is pretty decent.
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Frazzled wrote:Everything is biased. Other outlets are particularly eggregious as well (NBC, MSNBC, CBS). Its the only news one thats biased right wing. Its refreshing.
That's a really poor way of looking at news, as it pretty much removes any judgement over the actual quality of the news and opinion pieces presented. Yes, every media outlet everywhere on the planet holds bias, at the level of the journalist and at the institutional level. No, that doesn't make them equal.
Bias is unavoidable, and isn't necessarily a bad thing. Any piece on a murder is going to contain the biased opinion 'murder is bad', a piece that didn't make that assumption would be non-sensical. The challenge to good journalism is to represent the facts fairly and accuratately.
When the media outlet develops a policy of gearing all opinion pieces on the network towards a specific, constructed narrative that's a very bad thing, and that's what FOX news is doing, and it's why they're a very poor news channel.
For the record, the other 24 hour channels are also very poor networks, but that's less to do with bias and more to do with quality control and favouring sensation over substance.
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BaronIveagh wrote:I do think that one of the more entertaining things about this is here we have an American whining that other Americans are acting like Nazis. First of all: the Nazis just modernized ideas that the US invented, and used them all at the same time.
I think it's good to be wide eyed about what one's own country has done in the past. I'm not sure its useful to compare the US to the Nazis. It really is one of those 'just don't' things.
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Fateweaver wrote:I'm not mad. Jon Stewart is a tool. He bashes capitalism when it's capitalism allowing him to get paid millions per year to spew his hot air powered rants; he falls into the same category of people who somehow think it would have been better for the US to have invaded Japan instead of nuking it when there is enough proof to totally invalidate that idiotic claim.
I didn't agree with Stewart on the invasion/bombing of Japan but it isn't as though his view doesn't have some legitimacy. I think if that comment given by Stewart off the cuff is the best you've got to criticise him, then you've got absolutely no case at all.
Your argument that he bashes capitalism is idiotic, and likely means you have no understanding of Stewart's political views, of capitalism, and of the particular application of capitalism in the US. Stewart is critical of specific parts of US law that favour large and politically powerful corporations, and would like to return to greater regulation of markets. This is a long, long way from bashing capitalism, and is yet another instance where you really need to take a look at yourself and how you form your opinions.
That's my OPINION of him Shuma. I know you'll try to claim my OPINION is false so go on with your bad self.
Sure, opinions, whether capitalised or not, cannot be wrong. They can be foolish, though.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/05/18 03:42:57
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Frazzled wrote:Its like watching two brothers hitting each other in the back of the car. Occasionlly Dad reaches around and smacks whicher's closer but usually he just wonders where it all went wrong. After all he was going to be an astronaut/scientist/millionaire. What the hell happened?
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BaronIveagh wrote:Wait, so... murder is bad?
No, that would be holding an opinion and then you'd be exactly the same as FOX news.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/18 03:44:21
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
... the sad part is that I might be perfectly ok with using a chain come along to tear a man's genitals off, but the idea of being like Glen Beck repulses me...
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
youbedead wrote:Agreed Cronkite was one of the truly honest reporter who believed that facts come before entertainment
What about the Tet Offensive?
He made it look like we had been beaten everywhere, but when the actual casualty number came out it was an absolute massacre of VC and NVA. But, his poignant appearance in Saigon all but sinched that we were done in Vietnam in public opinion. I personally don't think entering Vietnam was a great idea, it had it's roots in Harry Truman's Idea of preventing the spread of Communism. But, if you are going to war, make sure you can win.
At least he wasn't as bad as Geraldo Rivera. What kind of moron shows what the battle plan of his embedded unit is?
The Actual news reporting on Fox isn't bad, their opinion shows also bring up interesting points. What's odd though, is when you watch the other channels, they all say the same thing in their news reporting, almost verbatim. Give it try sometime, very refreshing.
BTW, taxes in this country are ridiculous, we need a consumption tax.
Catachan LIX "Lords Of Destruction" - Put Away
1943-1944 Era 1250 point Großdeutchland Force - Bolt Action
"The best medicine for Wraithlords? Multilasers. The best way to kill an Avatar? Lasguns."
"Time to pour out some liquor for the pinkmisted Harlequins"
youbedead wrote:Agreed Cronkite was one of the truly honest reporter who believed that facts come before entertainment
What about the Tet Offensive?
He made it look like we had been beaten everywhere, but when the actual casualty number came out it was an absolute massacre of VC and NVA. But, his poignant appearance in Saigon all but sinched that we were done in Vietnam in public opinion. I personally don't think entering Vietnam was a great idea, it had it's roots in Harry Truman's Idea of preventing the spread of Communism. But, if you are going to war, make sure you can win.
No he never said we were losing, he said that we couldn't make anymore progress and the both sides were 'mired in stalemate' which was entirely true. The U.S. at that point could not win, the north Vietnamese far outclassed at tactically. We couldn't beat them since we were trying to beat a conventional army in conventional warfare and we were unprepared for guerrilla warfare
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
Fateweaver wrote:I want a pack to guard my yard. I'll train them to attack Liberals with intent to kill.
So yeah, Lewis Black irritates me worst than Jon Stewart and that's saying a lot.
So, things wrong with America, exhibit A...
No, seriously. You are joking about killing people for disagreeing with you. Nice.
Fateweaver wrote:
Of course liberals and liberal MSM (god how ironic that is) want tighter constraints on what the 1st Amendment should entail. The Second Amendment is under attack constantly and thanks to liberal PC nonsense the First is being threatened as well.
Your understanding of the 2nd Amendment is pretty funny. You can bear arms as soon as you're in a properly ordered militia.
But I like your creativity. Claiming the Constitution is on your side and your opponents hate free speech? No one has ever done that before!
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho Marx
Sanctjud wrote:It's not just lame... it's Twilight Blood Angels Nipples Lame.
Walter realized that the American public of the time would be too horrified at what it takes to win in that sort of war.
To win a war against insurgents, I mean, really win, not declare victory and pull out, or palm it off on someone else, you have to be willing to kill whole towns down to the last man, woman, child, goat, dog, cat, and chicken.
At least in a tactical situation like Vietnam.
The other way is to put a rifle squad on every street corner, and flood the country with millions of men. Every time a man is killed, you kill everyone on that block.
Kill ratios and hearts and minds are all bs. You have to be willing to do whatever it takes to break their will to fight you.
Actually, people like to bleat about a well ordered militia being a requirement to bare arms: militias are not, nor ever really were, official organizations. The idea at the time was that private citizens could turn out and defend their homes. Or overthrow the government if everything wnet to pot. Remember, the founding fathers weren't entirely sold on the idea that what they were building would even work.
Supposedly, this was done away with the advent of the National Guard, however, as far as the war on terror goes, armed civilians would prove more effective then waiting on the military.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/05/18 04:33:43
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Fateweaver wrote:I want a pack to guard my yard. I'll train them to attack Liberals with intent to kill.
So yeah, Lewis Black irritates me worst than Jon Stewart and that's saying a lot.
So, things wrong with America, exhibit A...
No, seriously. You are joking about killing people for disagreeing with you. Nice.
Fateweaver wrote:
Of course liberals and liberal MSM (god how ironic that is) want tighter constraints on what the 1st Amendment should entail. The Second Amendment is under attack constantly and thanks to liberal PC nonsense the First is being threatened as well.
Your understanding of the 2nd Amendment is pretty funny. You can bear arms as soon as you're in a properly ordered militia.
But I like your creativity. Claiming the Constitution is on your side and your opponents hate free speech? No one has ever done that before!
Your grasp on history is lacking.
The citizens of the US themselves are considered a militia. Every man, woman and child old enough to use and carry a gun is part of a nationwide militia. It was declared so 200+ years ago and that has not changed.
Anti-2nd Amendment nutjobs interpret the 2nd Amendment the way you just did. The Constitution is not RAI for liberals to tear down, it is RAW. 1st Amendment says I can say whatever the hell I want. By the wording in the First Amendment I can use the "N" word and any other slang term I want for minorities. According to liberals and the PC police the 1st Amendment says I can say whatever I want so long as it doesn't offend someone. Say anything I damn well please no matter what =/= say anything I please so long as it doesn't offend. 2nd Amendment says I have the right to own a gun. It does not say "I have the right to own a gun so long as I have permission from the government and that I'm a militant of sorts". 3 states have it right. 3 states are telling the Federal government "go feth yourselves". 3 states do not require a permit of any sorts to buy, own, carry and conceal a firearm. Someday the other 47 states will do the right thing and follow suit.
Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/18 04:42:52
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Stormrider wrote:
BTW, taxes in this country are ridiculous, we need a consumption tax.
You're too young to remember when taxes were really ridiculous.
Wait, so am I. The problem must not be related to memory, but reading.
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Fateweaver wrote:
The citizens of the US themselves are considered a militia. Every man, woman and child old enough to use and carry a gun is part of a nationwide militia. It was declared so 200+ years ago and that has not changed.
No, wrong. Glaringly, and painfully wrong.
Fateweaver wrote:
The Constitution is not RAI for liberals to tear down, it is RAW.
Oddly enough, intent is nominally a conservative bastion.
Fateweaver wrote:
2nd Amendment says I have the right to own a gun.
Nope, it says you have the right to bear arms. That does not make a comment on ownership by necessity.
Fateweaver wrote:
Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
Wrong rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/18 04:47:27
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
God, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Fateweaver, but his interpretation of the second amendment is, basically, correct. Technically, a lot of gun laws on the books now are unconstitutional, however, as far as I know, few challenges to them have made it to the supreme court.
And at that time, baring arms did require that you owned them. The national government had a fairly small standing army, and had no way to supply militias with weapons. You brought your own, very frequently, and this actually continued well into the Civil War.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/18 04:49:03
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Catachan LIX "Lords Of Destruction" 