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In the case of allies, I actually think it's one of the slightly better thought out rules changes. Though really they could have gotten away with writing an errata for the Inquisition psychic hood and banning mystics outside of pure Daemonhunters armies.

There are tournaments that allow allies and so on in Europe too, it just depends on the event.

I'd be interested in hearing from seasoned guard players about what scares them in an opponents list.

It'd be best to ask on the IGMB, then.

Da Boss wrote:In the case of allies, I actually think it's one of the slightly better thought out rules changes. Though really they could have gotten away with writing an errata for the Inquisition psychic hood and banning mystics outside of pure Daemonhunters armies.

There are tournaments that allow allies and so on in Europe too, it just depends on the event.

I'd be interested in hearing from seasoned guard players about what scares them in an opponents list.

I'm not "seasoned" (just played my 4th game with my Guard today) but I have a very strong grasp on the "metagame."

What scares me the most with my mech guard is deepstriking, melta-packing, only-1d6-scatter, FNP assault marines. I am responding to this fear by putting FNP-denying small blasts into my army, to discourage BA players from deep-striking near my lines to earn free KPs. This forces him back on the board, which puts things into my hands a bit better.

The other thing that scares me is thunder-hammer terminators multi-assaulting my tanks. I'm dealing with this fear by including an infantry platoon into my army, so I can have some disposable "bubble wrap" to protect my tanks.

Da Boss wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from seasoned guard players about what scares them in an opponents list.

I play against IG pretty regularly and with a decent record.

They vehemently disagree with Deep Striking Melta, as willydstyle pointed out already. And watch out for Snikrot!

Go the DS Melta

Thinking of packing CSM termi combi melta gating in on icons - problem there is single target

Thus still like melta wielding infiltrators, although this goes out the window with DoW

Also to Melissa - why would you use the IG board when you have Dakka!

willydstyle wrote:

Da Boss wrote:In the case of allies, I actually think it's one of the slightly better thought out rules changes. Though really they could have gotten away with writing an errata for the Inquisition psychic hood and banning mystics outside of pure Daemonhunters armies.

There are tournaments that allow allies and so on in Europe too, it just depends on the event.

I'd be interested in hearing from seasoned guard players about what scares them in an opponents list.

I'm not "seasoned" (just played my 4th game with my Guard today) but I have a very strong grasp on the "metagame."

What scares me the most with my mech guard is deepstriking, melta-packing, only-1d6-scatter, FNP assault marines. I am responding to this fear by putting FNP-denying small blasts into my army, to discourage BA players from deep-striking near my lines to earn free KPs. This forces him back on the board, which puts things into my hands a bit better.

The other thing that scares me is thunder-hammer terminators multi-assaulting my tanks. I'm dealing with this fear by including an infantry platoon into my army, so I can have some disposable "bubble wrap" to protect my tanks.

One of my favourite armies to fight are the bubble wrapped mech-IG. Everyone keeps talking about the psychological effect of seeing 14+ tanks... well how about 25 terminators in your face turn 1? I love the look on new opponents faces when I'm putting out 5 non-scattering squads of terminators on my first turn, usually with a 2x L.C Belial and a Term-librarian with a fun template psychic power =D! 27 terminators woot woot!

Also, I love using helfire on chimera lines turn one..."I use helfire, I pass my psychic test... I roll a 10 for strength and I roll a 1 for ap... that is a Str 8 ap 1 flame template on... looks like 5 chimeras? ". I love the look on guard players faces when that happens.

Flashlight spam is deadly against small armies like marines and other small MEQ armies. They simply put out so many shots that eventually they will overcome their opponent. The small army is also not able to (generally) put out enough shots to put a dent in them. For this reason, whenever I verse my friend's IG infantry spam, I take a vindicator. Pie plate of doom!!!

*Laughs at Rashim*

Termis are good if DA can use them as troops, unfortunately thats not going to be standard case

Vindicators are definately there for the count though

More I think about it the more Ass termies in LRR with Vindis hiding behind hamming up 12 on first turn sounds all win

I've never used mystics as allies in my IG. Maybe my local meta just doesn't have enough deep strikers, but few units are less expensive or critical than the tank they destroy when landing.

Additionally, if you run LR Executioners (which I do at 1850), you really only have two key tanks to protect from deep striking. Then, anything that deepstrikes eats a lot of plasma cannons while bunched up.

It's the best bet, but it's still not a great bet. the worst loss I've suffered with my IG was at the hands of Cent99's "chester," which arrived on turn one, scattered perfectly in place to multicharge, and had the advantage of me being a much worse player than him.

There is no reason not to use mystics. An Inquisitor Lord is extremely useful for the psychic protection alone, so a mere 12 points for mystics (especially since they fill 2 of the 3 required henchmen slots if you're being minimalist) is a no-brainer.

And even without a psychic hood to knock out hellfire or mystics to shoot up those Dark Angel terminators, infantry platoons with power weapons own terminators if they don't have the new storm shields (they actually own them even then, but it takes longer).

Well, there is a pretty good reason not to use mystics: they eat into an HQ slot if taken with a lord. Psychic defense is good, but one of my all star units is a CCS with quad melta in a valkyrie, while another stays back with meltas or plasmas to give orders.

The jr. Inquisitor/mystic/mystic combo is dirt cheap and is fine, but you now cough up a KP.

Maybe in pure mech or pure foot slogging they make more sense, but in a hybrid, I don't see the need unless your meta is chock full of deep strikers.

Yeah, but for less than a 100 points you get a inquisitor lord with mystics, tarot, and psychic hood. Slight advantage to get first turn, deep strike protection, and a board wide hood with a leadership of 10. Stick him in a Valkyrie and extend the range of the deep strike protection 6-10".

My meta is not chock-full of deep strikers, but it is certainly chock-full of psychic powers (which will undoubtedly increase with Dark Eldar and Grey Knights), so the psychic protection is the key point. If you have an Inquisitor anyway, then mystics are a no-brainer.

But if you want two HQ slots, fair enough (although there are plenty of other sources of suicidal meltas in a vendetta). KP, on the other hand, is a pointless consideration for IG: you will have tons of KP and bleed them like a stuck pig regardless. IG win KP missions by tabling the opponent.

And if you can always take three plasma veterans (5 points cheaper than codex equivalent, and they get free targeters to boot) and borrow a platoon chimera to get around.

I'm curious, what psychic powers actually scare you? I'm not worried about any combat powers (Im' outclassed anyway), and Even most of the shooting ones aren't that scary. I guess Living Lightning done right can hurt.

Am I missing something?

Emperor's Tarot is also a no-brainer for your Inquisitor. It's won me a lot of games, particularly againt IG when I didn't want to get to get smacked down by their Alpha Strike.

Polonius wrote:I'm curious, what psychic powers actually scare you? I'm not worried about any combat powers (Im' outclassed anyway), and Even most of the shooting ones aren't that scary. I guess Living Lightning done right can hurt.

Am I missing something?

Eldar are chock-full of psychic annoyances and it really throws them off their game when they can't fortune their seer council or doom all your crap.

Blood Angels dreadnoughts flying around and shooting AP1 lances all over the place are real pests.

Tyranids drop-podding S10 zoanthropes makes me cranky, and big bugs without Catalyst are that much easier to kill.

Chaos Princes lashing around my infantry platoons makes me ornery.

Space Wolves Living Lightning my tanks or Murderous Hurricaning my troops or Tempest Wrathing my Vendettas makes me .... +++TRANSMISSION LOST DUE TO BOUT OF MINDLESS, ALL-CONSUMING RAGE+++

Even stopping those close combat buffs you decry isn't such a bad thing, as it can mean the difference between losing your platoon in one combat phase, or forcing the opponent to hack through them for your turn and theirs, until you are ready to deal with them or the game ends.

Rashim wrote: that is a Str 8 ap 1 flame template on... looks like 5 chimeras? ". I love the look on guard players faces when that happens.

OK, I know people like to talk things up, but 5 vehicles with 1 template? You must be using a different template to the rest of us.

Of course, I don't know the BA codex, so maybe they do have a different template. Otherwise, I call major BS on that.

The Exceutioner Tank, death to all infantry.

Citizensmith wrote:

Rashim wrote: that is a Str 8 ap 1 flame template on... looks like 5 chimeras? ". I love the look on guard players faces when that happens.

OK, I know people like to talk things up, but 5 vehicles with 1 template? You must be using a different template to the rest of us.

Of course, I don't know the BA codex, so maybe they do have a different template. Otherwise, I call major BS on that.

Dark Angels actually, and it was more like 3 chimera's and then 2 hydra's in the back. Just an over exaggeration.

Imperial Guard are very good because they're easy to play as, but depending on how the opponent plays there should always be a way to beat them, many Guard players use lots of tanks because they're good at it so lots of anti-armor helps and you will never be playing really elite units so keep that in mind when writing a list.

Are IG really a simple army to play now? I've played them since 3rd, so I have no real way of knowing what the learning curve is, but it used to be pretty steep.

Thinking for those IG psychic powers a codex Librarian HQ in terminator armour with the TH/SS Termies is a must

Null Zone and Hammernators are always a must. The Psychic Hood is just icing on the cake!

Plus the termi librarian model is just epic

As a longtime IG player, I have only this to add:

I have no idea. They're gak.

Agamemnon2 wrote:As a longtime IG player, I have only this to add:

I have no idea. They're gak.

Their codex is sturdy and far easier to grasp than the extremely synergy based tyranids one. Imperial Guard armies are scoring highly on the tourneys results here on dakka. Vets in Valks, massed tanks, massed infantry. I've played against Imperial Guard with my orks many times, against 2 very competent and shrewd players and have a 70/30 ratio against them because they aren't the main army of either player and all victories and defeats are narrow fought.

I don't really get what's the problem with the codex, but am hearing that old saying about 'bad workmen blame their tools'.

Well, my mech Eldar army is not scared at all.
IG has trouble downing fast and heavy skimmers unless IG fields some FW Hydras.

Moreover, please have a look into the new WD issue. Spearhead IG vs. Eldar, and Eldar won.

LOL, did someone just cite a White Dwarf battle report?

You don't need Hydras to deal with Waveserpents if you're not part of the mad cult of Ailaros that disdains the use of autocannons. And I don't know about Dakka battle results, but in GW-reported tournaments so far IG is doing well, but certainly not crushing all opposition like some people would imply.

While a potent codex with many relatively inexpensive units that are good at taking down a particular target, IG is very much an army that is made or broken by proper deployment and application of force. Rushing out those shiny melta vets to drop a Land Raider is all fine and good, but not if you've just created a nice daisy-chain for those terminators to follow into your army's guts. Like any army, it takes a good feel for the individual units and more importantly experience with them to do well with IG. Granted, past 2000 points IG can pack a tremendous amount of armor and firepower, but theirs is not the only list that scales well (see Tyranids, Space Werewolves/Vampires), and Darkwynn's success can be equally attributed to good match-ups and the devil's own luck. That why despite all this internet hubbub about "Leafblowers" and everyone rushing out to duplicate the list, none of those people have amounted to squat in any tournament they've participated in.

I will have to second the nids being much more synergy based then my IG, I still am not at the same win record with my long played nids. Guard got a new book and play style but how to play was apparent right off the bat.

Hi I'm a relatively new guard player, I've urrently played 8 games and lost 4.

I don't think the codex is hard to grasp, but I don't think it that will make a new player more likely to win. Sure it might help a good player be better but bad player is still a bad player. I mean I suck . Reading threads I often get the impression people understate how valuable experience is. When push comes to shove IG are just another army with thier own strengths and flaws. Basically i'm agreeing with Terminus.

I agree that deployment and getting to go first seem to have big impacts on my games. I run a hybrid list (it basically uses the models i've got) and I often have problems with my deployment due to inexperience and if I don't get a good turn of shooting in turn 1 i'm usually in trouble. For example I played a 750 game last night against orks, I went second and had Deffkopta in my gun line turn 1, my 30 man AC blob didn't get to fire a shot the whole game.

When i started I was terrified of assault, but now i'm slowly learning that there are occasions when its ok for guard to charge in, the codex didn't teach me that getting my but whooped did.

sorry rant over.