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Playing them (BA/FT's), I found that without a TH or Fist in the squad(s if combat squadded), they had a tendency to get bogged down and neutralized by big nasties they could not easily kill... So I tend to bring at least 2 of the "big" weapons with the full squad just to be sure...

Yea, I'm thinking the Relic blade should get rid of problems like that, but then a PFist can't really hurt either. I guess I'll model a PFist as well.

Also, seeing as I was one of the 3 last posters here, I asked the question here instead of making a new thread.

I have a question. Why has no one mentioned FO?

VV are FA. I see that as an advantage in that you can forgo a CM and Horor Guard. Get a cheap HQ, get your TH/SS Terminators in a LR, and Get some of these guys to be a second elite assault unit. I agree they can get expensive quick, but they are versatile and 2 Attacks base makes them able to take on non-assault units larger than they are. Devs, Lootas, Scouts, Troops, etc.

Space Marine Elites are at premium. FA are not.

I just think that it's an avenue to add in some assault in addition to Terminators, or so you can fit in more sternguard, dreads, etc.

Not the best option for points reasons but not an untakable choice either.

Only problem with that is that you're using two FO slots for the same roll (effectively) as a CM/honour guard.

CM/honour guard only uses one HQ slot. What you're suggesting uses one HQ slot and one Fast Attack slot. Unless you want to discount the HQ slot entirely, in which case there's not much of a difference anymore, and it mostly depends on whether you'd rather use an HQ slot or a FA slot for this purpose.

yeah, I suppose the comparison should only me made with Elites... I nullified my onw point by throwing the HQ in there.

Personally, I feel like both Van Vets and CM/Honour Guard are both horribly overpriced. I'd never take either unless I had a specific job for them to do!

boo necromancy

Why is this still being discussed?!?

Vanguard Vets are no good.

Done!

That sounds like a challenge.

I'm totally going to incorporate Van Vets into one of my SM lists and see if I can make them useful, just so I can at Alpharius!

I have found Vanguard veterans to be a great unit for Blood Angels, Descent of Angels make such a huge difference when combined with Heroic Intervention. Another advantage is you can take more than five as opposed to an Honor Guard or vanilla command squad. This gives you a couple of bodies to soak wounds. Yet another advantage for the Blood Angels version is they can take melta pistols so they also become good tank hunters. They are one of the best assault units in the new BA codex without a doubt.