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I guess they could have learnt about it from Cultist bases they have raided. They don't believe so wouldn't understand the threat of Chaos' literature and might read it.

I suppose thats the major reason that Chaos Tau don't work. You just end up clutching at straws to justify them. The best way would be just to not think about it to much.

@Librius Machina

If they found a cure or not isn't the point. The Tau are logical and scientific, that means that they would search for a logical and scientific solution instead of completly changing who they are in the drop of a hat and start worshiping some god that they don't believe exists in the first place.

As far as your scenario about how Tau would come to serve Nurgle there is a differance between being bad but still plausible and being so bad there is no way. No offence but your scenario is the later. 1st of all infected Tau woulden't still be fighting on the front lines, they would be in a medical center or quarentine so how would they be able to go searching for those marines? 2 they probably woulden't even be able to move let alone seek out Nurgle Marines that represent the exact opposite of everything the Tau believe in so besides having to suddenly develop a belief in a god that normal Fire Warriors probably know nothing about they would also have to be completly dissillussioned about the Greater Good ergo the absence of Ethereals. And given the Tau nature they would still believe their deaths where for the Greater Good. And using Farsight as an example won't work either, he and his faction have gone renegade they don't worship chaos sothat tells you that even Tau who are outside of the Empire proper still woulden't turn to chaos.

I repeat Tau will not turn to chaos

@ ironskull: just because they haven't yet doesn't mean they can't. we just can't find a logical and decent reason that stands up to scrutiny.

If they found a cure or not isn't the point. The Tau are logical and scientific, that means that they would search for a logical and scientific solution instead of completly changing who they are in the drop of a hat and start worshiping some god that they don't believe exists in the first place.

and when people have no scientific answer they generally turn to religion. Just look at how many people turn to god when they have an illness that can't be cured. Besides, look at the Imperium. The Imperial Truth taught that there were no gods or anything supernatural. However, once people were shown that there were actually gods and daemons, they soon gave up on that. The Tau's belief is rather more deep seated due to the Ethereal's control over them, but if they were to be away from the Ethereals for a while (i.e. they had been seperated from the rest of their sept) they might start to see otherwise.

using Farsight as an example won't work either, he and his faction have gone renegade they don't worship chaos sothat tells you that even Tau who are outside of the Empire proper still woulden't turn to chaos.

All I meant by that was that Farsight proves that Tau can change their minds about things and can make their own decisions. Just because Farsight didn't choose to leave the Empire for Chaos doesn't mean that others wouldn't.

Librius Machina wrote:and when people have no scientific answer they generally turn to religion. Just look at how many people turn to god when they have an illness that can't be cured. Besides, look at the Imperium. The Imperial Truth taught that there were no gods or anything supernatural. However, once people were shown that there were actually gods and daemons, they soon gave up on that. The Tau's belief is rather more deep seated due to the Ethereal's control over them, but if they were to be away from the Ethereals for a while (i.e. they had been seperated from the rest of their sept) they might start to see otherwise.

the one problem with this is that the gods are powered/fueled/created/born from the psychically active races, so the act of religion is 'natural' in those races while unnatural in the tau, this means they do not have the 'all is so better start praying default' ( IMO real world examples shouldn't be used seeing as the warp doesn't exist here)

BluntmanDC wrote:

Librius Machina wrote:and when people have no scientific answer they generally turn to religion. Just look at how many people turn to god when they have an illness that can't be cured. Besides, look at the Imperium. The Imperial Truth taught that there were no gods or anything supernatural. However, once people were shown that there were actually gods and daemons, they soon gave up on that. The Tau's belief is rather more deep seated due to the Ethereal's control over them, but if they were to be away from the Ethereals for a while (i.e. they had been seperated from the rest of their sept) they might start to see otherwise.

the one problem with this is that the gods are powered/fueled/created/born from the psychically active races, so the act of religion is 'natural' in those races while unnatural in the tau, this means they do not have the 'all is so better start praying default' ( IMO real world examples shouldn't be used seeing as the warp doesn't exist here)

And that scientifically speaking god(s) has not been proved or disproved (no matter what your view) were as in the 40k world they do exist.

Librius Machina wrote:

If they found a cure or not isn't the point. The Tau are logical and scientific, that means that they would search for a logical and scientific solution instead of completly changing who they are in the drop of a hat and start worshiping some god that they don't believe exists in the first place.

and when people have no scientific answer they generally turn to religion. Just look at how many people turn to god when they have an illness that can't be cured. Besides, look at the Imperium. The Imperial Truth taught that there were no gods or anything supernatural. However, once people were shown that there were actually gods and daemons, they soon gave up on that. The Tau's belief is rather more deep seated due to the Ethereal's control over them, but if they were to be away from the Ethereals for a while (i.e. they had been seperated from the rest of their sept) they might start to see otherwise.

In this statement you 1 compare Tau to people, now if you're using "people" in terms of real world people then that comparison is faulty at best because real world ideals, physics and beliefs do not translate into 40k and so have no place IMHO. If you're refering to "people" in terms of 40k humans then that means you are comparing 2 entirely differant species, Tau reactions cannot be compared to those of humans no more then you could compare Eldar emotions to those of a Ork.

Then you use the Imperium as an example. Again you are comparing 2 entirely differant species with differant histories and differant traditions. As far as we know the Tau have NEVER worshiped any kind of god nor have they believed in spirits or such creatures. Humanity in 40k always has believed in such things, yes the Emperor tried to make the Imperium a secular society but it never happened, not completly. Now the Imperium had a good reason to return to being a religious society, the Horus Heresy gave them reason to what with daemons and chaos gods and magic and such.

So lets say that the Tau had something similar happen. Lets say that when O'shava seperated himself from the Tau half the Empire went with him and he started working with chaos forces (note I did not say for or under, I said with). Now the Tau Empire isn't going to take kindly to that so they are going to try and get the Farsight renegades back or kill them and in these battles they see them fighting alonside summoned daemons and such. Are they going to see them as daemons and start worshiping some god like the Imperium did? No because as the fluff has shown so far the Tau do not believe in spiritual creatures such as daemons, they see them as just another type of being. Since they do not associate them with a supernatural element like the Imperium does thanks to it's history of supersticion they will not start praying to gods because they have no need to they never have because they don't believe they exist.

They may believe that they are simply powerfull creatures that have developed amazing abilities. But they do not believe that they are gods because they don't believe gods exist. If they do;ot believe that gods exist then they won't start praying to them because there is no one to pray to in their minds. So using the Imperium (an organisation made up of humans with a LONG LONG history of spiritual beliefs even before the Emperor) as an example of why the Tau (a non human race with no known religion nor any mentioning of ever having believed in gods or spirits) could do the same thing isn't going to work.

This has gotten all to serious for a fluff army.

Your tau where out walking the dog near the eye of terror looking for a lost fleet in planet X (following a mayday call) when all of a sudden a warp storm appeared and they started hearing odd noises through their coms - a mysterious harsh but calming noise, it is unknown what this might of been or what caused it but the Tau that where within the planet X effected by this storm have now been sighted 'aligning' with the forces of chaos.

There you god damn go. Use completely ambiguous text to fluff it up how you like, just never state specifics when it comes to 'how'.

The Codex Daemonhunters doesn't have any scenario of corrupted Tau, because the Imperial specialists (and GW designers) know Tau can't be corrupted.
The novel "Firewarrior" shows a daemon trying to corrupt a Firewarrior. He only sees in one in a million the slightest chance of success (he doesn't event try on the captured ethereal), but even this highly emotional Firewarrior after days of attacks and corruption attempts doesn't fall to Chaos. Another example of GW saying NO.
Xenology even hints at the fact that Eldar created ethereals to make a race immune to Chaos.
And you will find not a single example of a corrupted Tau in the official background including novels.
Is there any other way that GW can say NO to corrupted Tau? I guess not.

BTW Tau have never been close to the Eye of Terror, so the above attempt of justification is another failed attempt.

Kroothawk wrote:The Codex Daemonhunters doesn't have any scenario of corrupted Tau, because the Imperial specialists (and GW designers) know Tau can't be corrupted.
The novel "Firewarrior" shows a daemon trying to corrupt a Firewarrior. He only sees in one in a million the slightest chance of success (he doesn't event try on the captured ethereal), but even this highly emotional Firewarrior after days of attacks and corruption attempts doesn't fall to Chaos. Another example of GW saying NO.
Xenology even hints at the fact that Eldar created ethereals to make a race immune to Chaos.
And you will find not a single example of a corrupted Tau in the official background including novels.
Is there any other way that GW can say NO to corrupted Tau? I guess not.

BTW Tau have never been close to the Eye of Terror, so the above attempt of justification is another failed attempt.

Just because they have never been there in fluff that you read does not mean it is impossible for them to go there in search of a missing fleet of theirs. How that fleet got there is not mentioned and neither is why. It could be many plausible reasons. ALSO to boot, the above attempt was a joke, you did not mention that tau don't take their dogs a walk in space.

Seriously have a bit of tact.

syanticraven wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:The Codex Daemonhunters doesn't have any scenario of corrupted Tau, because the Imperial specialists (and GW designers) know Tau can't be corrupted.
The novel "Firewarrior" shows a daemon trying to corrupt a Firewarrior. He only sees in one in a million the slightest chance of success (he doesn't event try on the captured ethereal), but even this highly emotional Firewarrior after days of attacks and corruption attempts doesn't fall to Chaos. Another example of GW saying NO.
Xenology even hints at the fact that Eldar created ethereals to make a race immune to Chaos.
And you will find not a single example of a corrupted Tau in the official background including novels.
Is there any other way that GW can say NO to corrupted Tau? I guess not.

BTW Tau have never been close to the Eye of Terror, so the above attempt of justification is another failed attempt.

Just because they have never been there in fluff that you read does not mean it is impossible for them to go there in search of a missing fleet of theirs. How that fleet got there is not mentioned and neither is why. It could be many plausible reasons. ALSO to boot, the above attempt was a joke, you did not mention that tau don't take their dogs a walk in space.

Seriously have a bit of tact.

should he have started with 'sorry but you a wrong', 40k background as the main is about descussing fluff, so if you want to ignore that whats really the point, and now lets try some tact here, isn't a joke supposed to be funny?

syanticraven wrote:Just because they have never been there in fluff that you read does not mean it is impossible for them to go there in search of a missing fleet of theirs. How that fleet got there is not mentioned and neither is why. It could be many plausible reasons.

Actually no, as the fluff is very explicit that the Tau are limited to the Eastern Fringe "("big fish in a small pond") because they have no access to a real warp drive. But as you obviously haven't read Tau background, you couldn't know that.

BluntmanDC wrote:

syanticraven wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:The Codex Daemonhunters doesn't have any scenario of corrupted Tau, because the Imperial specialists (and GW designers) know Tau can't be corrupted.
The novel "Firewarrior" shows a daemon trying to corrupt a Firewarrior. He only sees in one in a million the slightest chance of success (he doesn't event try on the captured ethereal), but even this highly emotional Firewarrior after days of attacks and corruption attempts doesn't fall to Chaos. Another example of GW saying NO.
Xenology even hints at the fact that Eldar created ethereals to make a race immune to Chaos.
And you will find not a single example of a corrupted Tau in the official background including novels.
Is there any other way that GW can say NO to corrupted Tau? I guess not.

BTW Tau have never been close to the Eye of Terror, so the above attempt of justification is another failed attempt.

Just because they have never been there in fluff that you read does not mean it is impossible for them to go there in search of a missing fleet of theirs. How that fleet got there is not mentioned and neither is why. It could be many plausible reasons. ALSO to boot, the above attempt was a joke, you did not mention that tau don't take their dogs a walk in space.

Seriously have a bit of tact.

should he have started with 'sorry but you a wrong', 40k background as the main is about descussing fluff, so if you want to ignore that whats really the point, and now lets try some tact here, isn't a joke supposed to be funny?

I am sure a tau taking a kroot dog for a walk would be funny in someone's mind -humour is different for everyone.
Also the fluff did not say "Tau have not and will never go to the eye of terror" it just said they have not been there, so if a player wants to make an tau excursion to there so recent that it has not been documented then so be it, there is no fluff to stop them.

Therefore referring to that specific fluff in my above case has no relativity and he should of though about the possibility first not just stamp his feet. Just because something is not documented in a book does not mean it did not happen -unless said book/source specifically said so or hinted to such.

You could also say that they have been but it had not been documented for the greater good, maybe they got lost and then disappeared from tau and no one knew where they went, maybe they got caught in a warp storm and it threw them towards the eye of terror, or even that it was a warp storm that was not in the eye of terror (reason they where not noticed before was due to warp storms blocking out the area). But as my point is about people being too serious in this thread I am not going to label every possibility or the use of ambiguous phrases to pass it off.

Just say they are corrupted just because. Maybe just say they are insane.

syanticraven wrote:Also the fluff did not say "Tau have not and will never go to the eye of terror"

yes but how would a fleet get through the whole of the galaxy, the tau empire is on the other side of the galaxy to the eye of terror, a fleet would be destroyed before it got anywhere near the segmentum solar let alone the eye.

http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html

have you noticed you are the only one thinking this, maybe everyone on this thread wants to have this 'serious' discussion

Chaos have no interest in the Tau.
The Tau have no interest in Chaos.

Nuff said.

BluntmanDC wrote:

syanticraven wrote:Also the fluff did not say "Tau have not and will never go to the eye of terror"

yes but how would a fleet get through the whole of the galaxy, the tau empire is on the other side of the galaxy to the eye of terror, a fleet would be destroyed before it got anywhere near the segmentum solar let alone the eye.

http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html

have you noticed you are the only one thinking this, maybe everyone on this thread wants to have this 'serious' discussion

The 'How' is what the creator of this gets to make up, its part of the fun.

asimo77 wrote:I'm sure a Tzeentchian daemon would be able to fool some tau or trick them sufficiently to do whatever they want possibly even abandon the greater good or whatever. As far as I know you don't have to be possessed for Tzeentch and friends to manipulate you. Then there's always the Deciever and even eldar possibly (it's even hinted in Xenology that they created the ethereals). Plus the whole being fooled thing fits with the tau being naive upstarts.

I wouldn't think so, if such an important decision, such as following chaos, the ethereals would become invovled and would immediately destroy any hope Tzeentch had of tainting them, as it would destroy the commanding power of the ethereals.

syanticraven wrote:The 'How' is what the creator of this gets to make up, its part of the fun.

But seeing as there is NO possible way for it to happen in the fluff, its a lack of care for the world that has been created, if you want a chaos tau army say 'i know its non-fluff but this is what i want' but don't get in a huff when people say its impossible in the 40k universe, they would still play you, but it has no background in the universe.

This is much like the dreaded female space marines, people would still play against your converted army but don't try to justify a completely un-fluff army.

BluntmanDC wrote:

syanticraven wrote:The 'How' is what the creator of this gets to make up, its part of the fun.

But seeing as there is NO possible way for it to happen in the fluff, its a lack of care for the world that has been created, if you want a chaos tau army say 'i know its non-fluff but this is what i want' but don't get in a huff when people say its impossible in the 40k universe, they would still play you, but it has no background in the universe.

This is much like the dreaded female space marines, people would still play against your converted army but don't try to justify a completely un-fluff army.

Saying there is no possible way is just a lack of imagination. Some Iyanden Eldar may have tricked them into an alliance and using Eldar webways transported them to X area where they where ambushed allowing the trapped eldar troops to escape, maybe the accidentally activated a Old One Relic that linked to something on The Thousand Sons home plant and teleported them there eliminating the planet they where on . From here on 'scary gak' happened or a Tzeentch prince parades as a ethereal commanding them or some other bs way to make up some way.

I mean the possibility of it is within the creators mind, they just need to be careful, maybe something warped there DNA to make them more susceptible or that one FW commander had a greater soul presence for some reason.
Maybe X done Y and Z was caused.

syanticraven wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

syanticraven wrote:The 'How' is what the creator of this gets to make up, its part of the fun.

But seeing as there is NO possible way for it to happen in the fluff, its a lack of care for the world that has been created, if you want a chaos tau army say 'i know its non-fluff but this is what i want' but don't get in a huff when people say its impossible in the 40k universe, they would still play you, but it has no background in the universe.

This is much like the dreaded female space marines, people would still play against your converted army but don't try to justify a completely un-fluff army.

Saying there is no possible way is just a lack of imagination. Some Iyanden Eldar may have tricked them into an alliance and using Eldar webways transported them to X area where they where ambushed allowing the trapped eldar troops to escape, maybe the accidentally activated a Old One Relic that linked to something on The Thousand Sons home plant and teleported them there eliminating the planet they where on . From here on 'scary gak' happened or a Tzeentch prince parades as a ethereal commanding them or some other bs way to make up some way.

I mean the possibility of it is within the creators mind, they just need to be careful, maybe something warped there DNA to make them more susceptible or that one FW commander had a greater soul presence for some reason.
Maybe X done Y and Z was caused.

There is a big difference between a lack of imagination and caring about the establish history and geography of the 40k universe, the Eldar would not allow the tau to use a webway portal, relics are defended, and if they landed on the thousands sons home world the would have travelled back in time a few millenia (unless you are taking about magnus' deamon world, a world the 13th company hasn't been able to find in millenia or the fact that upon arrival the thousands sons and the multitude of deamons would rip them apart, the majority of deamons don't go for the whole chess game classic image of the deamon, they want to kill/rip apart/eat mortals) oh see i used my imagination, i'll be damned. writting a sequence of non linked words doesn't make you an imaginative poet it makes you a .

In a debate about official background, i will reiterate, there is no historical, canon, written, logical way for a tau to be turned to chaos

and you are not allowed to swear on dakka

'people would still play against your converted army but don't try to justify a completely un-fluff army.'

Well it is not my army, I am happy with the greater good.

But I don't see anywhere that notes that Tau are completely immune to chaos and will forever be. So it is up to the writer of fluff army to decide what changes that.

Who knows, maybe a tau diplomat had a baby with a bar maid and it all went downhill.

Its chaos though. reasoning and logic are the last things to be able to be used explaining it. every viable excuse given on why chaos tau cant exist is invalid because of fathoming chaos' reasoning is impossible

I always thought there might be some long lost Necron/Tau connection. My reasoning follows:

I think a Necron Warrior head looks something like a Tau skull would.

I think O'Shovah's Dawn Blade looks very Necronesque and he did find it on a long abandoned world.

And they have great tech, just like the Crons.

If the Tau have a darker half in the 40K universe, I think it's the Necrons.

Big Tim wrote:I always thought there might be some long lost Necron/Tau connection. My reasoning follows:

I think a Necron Warrior head looks something like a Tau skull would.

I think O'Shovah's Dawn Blade looks very Necronesque and he did find it on a long abandoned world.

And they have great tech, just like the Crons.

If the Tau have a darker half in the 40K universe, I think it's the Necrons.

I don't think so.

The Necrontyr have been effectivly "dead" for countless millenia, so while the machines that their minds where transfered to may look like the Necrontyr the chances of a race that exists millions of years later having the same skeletal structur are coincidental at best.

If O'shovahs sword is a Necron weapon that dosen't mean there is necissarily a connection between them. The Imperium uses C'tan Phase Blades it dosen't mean there is a connection (although that's a bad example because of the whole void dragon thing on Mars).

Great tech isn't really a sign either. Alot of races in the 40k universe have great tech, it's just that the Tau technology advances faster then that used by other races. And when you think about it Necron and Tau technology aren't even close to being the same.

Plus what would be the point of them being connected? why would a race that harvests the souls of others to feed their masters and a race that wants the unity of all for the greater good have anything in common? Their like exact opposites, if anything the Tau are the 40k answer to the Necrons. The one race that could possibly stand against them.

ChocolatePretzel wrote:Its chaos though. reasoning and logic are the last things to be able to be used explaining it. every viable excuse given on why chaos tau cant exist is invalid because of fathoming chaos' reasoning is impossible

By the same reasoning, why not have Chaos Orks, Chaos Tyranids, Chaos Necrons, Chaos Loyalist Space Marines, Loyalist Chaos Space Marines? Any restriction is merely a lack of imagination.

Why not make everything a pile of grey goo? That is the ultimate Chaos.

Restrictions are how the game is given interest and character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW when you look at them, the Chaotic powers obey quite strong logical rules and little imagination in the way they operate.

There are four of them (five if you include Malal). They are generated by specific types of "negative" emotions. They have defined special powers and signs, and areas of responsibility.

Chaos Daemons manifest in predictable ways. They can be restrained or destroyed by rules and physical devices.

Kilkrazy, I agree with your post and wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

Nail. Head.

Couldn't have said it better myself Killkrazy.

thats the point i was trying to make: chaos orks and nids can exist as the dh codex has pics of chaos orks and reasonings for dh to fight other races. necrons cant be possessed by chaos as they are immortal ancient dead beings. as for chaos loyalist marines? and loyalist chaos marines? those also exist(to an extent) the soul drinkers: a bunch of loyalist marines who get tainted by chaos but they view themselves as still loyal to the emperor and fight for him still. the Chaos Gods do, yes, obviously represent their realms: killing, plague, change, and pleasure, etc., but its more complex than that. they have GOD titles because they operate on a level mortals cant comprehend. tau are mortal and can fall just as every mighty being can. however they are tough being the soul crabs(lots of work, not alot of meat) so they wont probably be first draft picks. also thnx for grey goo idea. srsly, i was wondering on how to make a bunch of cheap spawn.

Kilkrazy wrote:

ChocolatePretzel wrote:Its chaos though. reasoning and logic are the last things to be able to be used explaining it. every viable excuse given on why chaos tau cant exist is invalid because of fathoming chaos' reasoning is impossible

By the same reasoning, why not have Chaos Orks, Chaos Tyranids, Chaos Necrons, Chaos Loyalist Space Marines, Loyalist Chaos Space Marines? Any restriction is merely a lack of imagination.

Should I give you links to threads suggesting or even modelling each of those?
And remember: Chaos is so strong, it can even warp the logic in posts

ChocolatePretzel wrote:thats the point i was trying to make: chaos orks and nids can exist as the dh codex has pics of chaos orks and reasonings for dh to fight other races. necrons cant be possessed by chaos as they are immortal ancient dead beings. as for chaos loyalist marines? and loyalist chaos marines? those also exist(to an extent) the soul drinkers: a bunch of loyalist marines who get tainted by chaos but they view themselves as still loyal to the emperor and fight for him still. the Chaos Gods do, yes, obviously represent their realms: killing, plague, change, and pleasure, etc., but its more complex than that. they have GOD titles because they operate on a level mortals cant comprehend. tau are mortal and can fall just as every mighty being can. however they are tough being the soul crabs(lots of work, not alot of meat) so they wont probably be first draft picks. also thnx for grey goo idea. srsly, i was wondering on how to make a bunch of cheap spawn.

You obviously have never eaten crab, they have lots of meat. you seem to have misunderstood killkrazy, although there are many areas that have leyway for a person's own creativity such as creating chapters and regiments,there are areas of official 40k background that make the world what it is (eldar don't like anyone, space marines are male, squat worlds were eaten, tau have nere to zero warp presence so chaos have no interest, tyranids like to eat everything, the number of eldar craftworlds).

The universe has a google of humans, millions of worlds each with billions of toiling humans, full of psykers either hiding or unknown of their powers waiting for the chaos gods to use, tau make up a tiny fraction (~0.0000000000001%) of the universe's sentient population, there is no point in the gods wasting their time.

The gods have no desire to try to posess necrons for the same reason, they have no warp presence.

Plus the tyranid scenarios in deamonhunters have no examples of the tyranid worshipping chaos, there is a difference between effected by the warp or nurgle's diseases and being chaos nids (worshippers)