Dark Eldar:In depth review and analysis

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Dracos**

That's not entirely true, I did the math spreadsheet style with all combat drugs. Then averaged them out in this thread

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328226.page

Dracos wrote:Its important to note that I did the math for each Combat Drug result. The Average expected wounds was simply taking the average number of expected wounds from each drug result, adding them together, and dividing by 6 (as there are 6 possible results).

So here it is, the math says..... (based on average 3.5 bonus attacks for the hydra gauntlet...)

V MEQ (not assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 0.9653
Razor 0.9771

V MEQ (assaulting, or Brides non-assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 1.1736
Razor 1.4309

V GEQ (not assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 1.7639
Razor 1.4856

V GEQ (assaulting, or Brides non-assaulting)
Average expected wounds
Hydra 2.1435
Razor 2.1728

As you can see the math shows that they are mostly similar in terms of average. The Razorflail wins the math hammer challenge, as it is stronger is 3/4 categories.

Additional situations not accounted for here only compound the win for the Razorflail, such as higher T opponents. The Razorflail will win in the math there too.

One important piece of information that the math does not take into account is the variation in the expected number of wounds. The hydra gauntlet will have more variation. It will more often score both higher and lower wounds than the Razorflail.

For wychs, which is better will be determined by how you want to play them. If you intend them to hit softer targets where you don't mind drawing a round of combat before winning, then hydras are for you. If you want a more normalized output, then the Razorflail is your choice.

Bloodbrides are always better equiped with the Razorflail. There is no opponent against whom the Hydra gauntlet is better.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its probably important to note that some of the differences are very small. Around .1 difference would hardly be noticeable on the level they are being used. Therefore although the razorflail strictly speaking is slightly better against most opponents, a lot of the choice comes down to variation vs normalization. This will likely come down to the role you want for that specific wych unit.

**The Defenestrator**

right, of course. I'm simply saying that, on the whole, there's no reason not to take the razorflails. I'm not sure the variance particularly matters as the actual variance of the entire attack phase is so large anyway. I just don't see a handful of randomized attacks throwing the variance in a single assault phase wildly out of whack.

You're right about the actual numerical differences; the biggest difference was, what, less than a wound per turn against MEQ with 2 of them? Frankly, you'll probably be just fine picking whichever one you think looks better; I just felt obligated to inform people of the basic stats since it seems so many (myself included, originally) just auto-picked the hydra gauntlets and called it a case closed.

**Dracos**

Not only that, but picking 2 offensive weapons for normal wychs seems inferior to taking 1 shardnet. With 1 shardnet, you can put it on the SGT or whatever most suitable target in the enemy unit to blunt a special CCW. I run wychs with 1 shardnet and 1 hydra gauntlet. Bloodbrides of course take 1 shardnet and 2 razorflails.

**Ketara**

I'd just like to note to everyone who has posted in this this thread so far that I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, a number of my views have changed since my initial brainstorming of this codex. I just haven't even had the time to finish this tactica recently, let alone modify what's already been written. However, I should be able to bring it up to speed next week.

**Forgithy**

Hi,

I used 4 Grotesques with one Heamonculus ancient. This means they already have 2 pain-tokens.
I played against eldar and my Archon and Incubi where killed by Banshees.
Then the banshees attacked my Heamonculus and Grotesques, which gives them an Initiative of 10.
Before that he fired whit 2 troops of fire warriors? (normal troops) whit 3 shots each, so about 48 shots.
Because of the high toughness and 3 wounds, they survived (we didn't used the Feel no pain-save, because I was told that wasn't allowed because the AP-value already didn't allow me to save, now I know better :S). Nonetheless, after taking some wounds from the bashees (all with power weapons), which killed 2 grotesques, they killed the banshees.
So in my opinion they are great. I used a WWP to get them on the battleground. And I only took 4, so they were able to be picked up with a raider if they weren't able to come out of the WWP.
Just a little aspect from my side.
Greetings,

**MagickalMemories**

Ketara wrote:I'd just like to note to everyone who has posted in this this thread so far that I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, a number of my views have changed since my initial brainstorming of this codex. I just haven't even had the time to finish this tactica recently, let alone modify what's already been written. However, I should be able to bring it up to speed next week.

When you do, please don't remove your old thoughts.
Maybe color code your NEW thoughts in the same post or something.
Will be nice to compare the changes.

Eric

**Gavo**

Great job, a fun read.

**JGrand**

I agree, Hulksmash. Beasts are an underappreciated unit, particularly stockpiling razorwings for mass rending attacks (like Fiends) and a few khymerae to increase survival. Out of a WWP, they can hit damn near anything and have a mass of wounds to absorb fire.

But then, there's a lot of "analysis" in this thread I don't agree with, but to each their own.

I don't understand why everyone thinks they are a bad unit. 4 Beastmasters, 4 Razorwings and 2 of the Big Beasts is a big deal for under 200 points. If a Hamonculus joins and leaves to give this unit FNP it can be really tough to deal with. Essentially it is immune to small arms fire due to wound allocation sleaze. If the enemy shoots it with big guns, then it is ignoring the Raiders/Ravagers. Beasts aren't slow and when they get to CC they tear up.

Beasts have been entirely ignored for no reason.

**Therion**

Beasts have been entirely ignored for no reason.

The reason is that beasts don't benefit anything from pain tokens, only the beastmaster does. The other reason is the fact that there aren't really any proper models available and converting them only because one intends to argue a rule that might or might not prevail in the upcoming faq is a waste.

**Dashofpepper**

Therion wrote:
Beasts have been entirely ignored for no reason.

The reason is that beasts don't benefit anything from pain tokens, only the beastmaster does. The other reason is the fact that there aren't really any proper models available and converting them only because one intends to argue a rule that might or might not prevail in the upcoming faq is a waste.

Except that the codex specifically says that the entire unit benefits, not just the models with the PtP rule.

**CurrentlyUnknown**

I believe his point is that the rule is a trifle confusing in such situations, requiring some interpretation. That type of rule is begging to be faq'd.

**Hulksmash**

I currently am looking at playing without the rule. In the most negative light (i.e. not only does the unit not benefit from FnP but it also can't gain tokens even for the masters) and I still think those units are a steal. To be fair RAW says the unit gets it right now but I'm assuming i'm gonna get boned if I try it

**Brothererekose**

I'd tumbled the 60 odd Rends (maxing RazorFlock) on last night's re-read through. Awesome, I thought, but then again, something must be wrong with it as I hadn't seen it in any lists.

Therion wrote:The reason is that beasts don't benefit anything from pain tokens, only the beastmaster does. The other reason is the fact that there aren't really any proper models available and converting them only because one intends to argue a rule that might or might not prevail in the upcoming faq is a waste.

... and that seems a pretty good reason why.

Still, proxying stuff until a model comes out is part of the hobby ... So, (scrolls through thread, doesn't find it), Hulksmash, how are you kitting the unit out? 4 BMs, 4 RazorF, 10 Khymeras?
---------------
*after some surfing and a link clicked* Is it still this? :

HQ
Haemonculus-
Elite
3 Trueborn-3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons
3 Trueborn-3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons
3 Trueborn-3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons
Troop
10 Wyches- Succubus, Agoniser, Haywire Grenades, Raider
10 Wyches- Succubus, Agoniser, Haywire Grenades, Raider
9 Wracks- Acolyte, Agoniser, Liquifier, Raider
5 Wracks- Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons
Fast Attack
3 Beast Masters-156
4 Flockwings, 5 Kymera

3 Beast Masters-156
4 Flockwings, 5 Kymera

Heavy Support - x3 Ravager

Yeah, I found your blog. But the posting date is 11/8. Any tweaks so far?

**Ketara**

Heavy Support section has been added. I'll get around to characters at some point, and then set up tweaking with all my new thoughts based on the discussion and points you gents have been making.

**Hulksmash**

i think I had a more recent one Brothererekose. But generally my units look like this:

Option A: 3xBM's w/4 Flockwings and 5 Kymerae
Option B: 4xBM's w/6 Flockwings and 5 Kymerae

and lastly if I have a ton of points (ard boyz)
Option C: 5xBM's w/6 Flockwings and 10 Kymeae

No tweaks really, i'm just now purchasing all my stuff and making the conversions. Plus 12-13 hour days doesn't make for a lot of game time

The unit is all about properly allocating shots. With a positive pain token ruling this unit will be just plain awesome. With a negative pain token ruling it's still a pretty sweet unit but it won't make your opponents call you a dirtbag