"The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child-Lover's Code of Conduct" Author arrested.

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**Frazzled**

Tigerone wrote:For the first time EVER Frazzed is 100% right!

Well even a broken clock is right twice a day.

**Monster Rain**

I suppose it makes me an ignorant pleb, but I really don't think I could bring myself to read that book. The whole thing just seems creepy to me.

That said, my loathing for pedophiles is without measure. Pretty much anything that inconveniences them is okay by me, be it Constitutional or not.

abderian

**Peter Wiggin**

Mannahnin wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
dogma wrote:I find it interesting that Fraz cannot conquer his own distaste in order to confront an issue that might affect his children.

I have to say that I agree with dogma on this one. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to read this thing to find out how these people think so as to protect my kids from them thar sickos.

GG

Thanks got that covered already, but I like the slam from the guy who's reading pedo manuals in his spare time.
She Who Must Be Obeyed worked in victim services, specializing in child victims. You want to hear things that will wake you up at night in a cold sweat? She can tell you.

I agree with Dogma, Ahtman and GeneralGrog (who ever thought they'd see that sentence?).

And I took child abuse reports for the State of NH after hours for the better part of three years. I could swap stories with SWMBO; not that either of us would want to.

As someone who has done extensive work in the non-profit sector, I've dealt with way too many folks that were molested or raped as children to have even the slightest bit of sympathy or open mindedness at a man who purposefully stirs the pot on a volatile subject.

Arguing that having a "how to manual" for pedophiles is somehow GOOD for children is idiocy in the highest degree. Refer back to rule #1 for living as a pedophile.

TLDR, I think donkey show's are kinda hot but I'd never pay to support them CAUSE ITS WRONG!!!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tigerone wrote:Its a disgusting topic as well as the sick person that painted the rape scene. Dakka is full of children which in turn draws people that prey upon them. Just putting such a book out there in this type of forum is uncalled for and I have noticed over the last year or so alot of threads about alot of questionable activities with underage drinking and drug use makes me wonder why topics like that need to be addressed on a wargamming forum. If someone started a topic about a book about how to hate gays or any other minority group it would get locked within a few minutes.

Hi there, you missing the point of thread. kk?

**Mannahnin**

Monster Rain wrote:I suppose it makes me an ignorant pleb, but I really don't think I could bring myself to read that book. The whole thing just seems creepy to me.

That said, my loathing for pedophiles is without measure.

Me too, to be honest. I actually only found out about the book a few weeks ago, and at the time I berated some poor girl in their customer service dept over chat for a half hour or so, telling her they should pull it or be complicit to child abuse.

That being said, I am ashamed to admit that I did so having not learned that the book is (apparently) not actually an instruction manual, and tells pedos not to actually have sex with kids. If those things are true, then the book probably does fall within the rights of free speech, and I leapt to a conclusion based on false evidence (like the comments on Amazon from other kneejerk-ouitraged folks who also hadn't read it themselves).

**Tigerone**

I dont think you get it...Even by posting something like this you are spreading it to someone that may use that book to hurt someone...its wrong...I do not belive in putting your head in the sand and ingnoring all the bad in the world but, this is a place that has alot of children some of them prob has lived thru something like this.

**Frazzled**

Peter Wiggin wrote:
Here's a quick guide to living as a pedophile.

Rule #1: Don't have sex with little kids.

FINISHED

there you go.

**Mannahnin**

Tigerone wrote:I dont think you get it...Even by posting something like this you are spreading it to someone that may use that book to hurt someone...its wrong...I do not belive in putting your head in the sand and ingnoring all the bad in the world but, this is a place that has alot of children some of them prob has lived thru something like this.

I get it.

The only person in the thread who has actually read the book says the content is not what you, or the Sheriff in FL, claims it is.

The person who has read the book says it actually tells pedophiles NOT to have sex with kids, and gives advice on how to cope with their urge to do so.

I am quite glad, at the moment, for this thread, because it has disabused me of an erroneous notion. I always like to learn the truth when I am laboring under a lie.

**Ahtman**

Tigerone wrote: someone that may use that book to hurt someone...its wrong..

Have you read what the book is about or what people have said in the thread? If we also avoided every discussion based on the possibility of every possible permutation of human suffering we wouldn't have much to talk about at all, especially wargames and wargaming. We have veterans here you know. Speaking about pedophilia is not anywhere close to encouraging or sanctioning. If you read the thread it has been universally scorned, and rightfully so. The subject is more about freedom of speech, the difference between facts and emotion and how they play on the political field, and Fraz implying people are pedophiles.

**Frazzled**

Bail set at $15,000.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/22/florida.obscenity.arrest/index.html
Prosecutors are alleging its a how to manual.

(CNN) -- A Florida judge set bail at $15,000 Wednesday for a man who wrote a controversial book considered a "how-to" guide for pedophiles.

Phillip Greaves, who was arrested in Colorado on Monday, said the book, "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child-Lover's Code of Conduct," can be used as a guide to rehabilitating pedophiles. And, instead of teaching them how to avoid arrest, it teaches them to avoid illegal actions, he said.

Greaves has been charged with the distribution of obscene material depicting minors engaged in harmful conduct, Florida authorities said. He made his first appearance in a Florida courtroom Wednesday afternoon.

His court appearance came a day after he held court in front of reporters explaining the nature of his book. Asked if he is a pedophile, Greaves said, "I only have sex with grown-ups."

He said he has no children and "I don't keep children around my house."

Pedophile guide: Obscene or free speech?

'Pedophile guide' author arrested

Author defended 'how-to' pedophilia book
RELATED TOPICS
Pedophilia
Florida
Child Abuse
Polk County, Florida, Sheriff Grady Judd has said his detectives were able to establish jurisdiction in the case by conducting an undercover operation, buying the book through the mail.

Greaves protested Tuesday saying he is the target of entrapment, but Judd disagreed.

"He wrote this book, he published this book, he put it on Amazon to sell," Judd told reporters as Greaves was being booked into the Polk County Jail, "and he freely responded to our desire to purchase it."

Greaves and his book gained national attention earlier this year after Amazon.com defended selling the book on its website despite angry comments and threats of boycotts from thousands of people. The book was removed from the website in early November.

Officials said the book talks about safe sex and avoiding injury to children, grooming and preparing children for sex and teaching children how to lie to their parents.

Judd said Greaves' book outlines a "code of ethics" that shows pedophiles how to look for the most vulnerable children.
Greaves told reporters Tuesday he wrote the book to exorcise his own childhood. He said he was introduced to sex at the age of 7 by a 10-year-old friend and began having sex with other children. This continued, he said, until he was about 15, when he stopped and did not have sex again for years.

"Once I got into adolescence, I suppose you could have identified me as an adolescent pedophile," he said. But now, he said, he is an example of the fact that people can reform.

"I think all speech should be protected," Greaves said. But "I was not the one who solicited the material to be sent to Florida. I think Florida law is for Floridians and Colorado law is for Coloradoans."

He told reporters he will not be able to make bond: "I'm actually quite poor."

Judge John Kirkland said Wednesday in court that if Greaves does not post bail he must remain in Florida, cannot have contact with anyone younger than 18 and cannot have access to a computer.

CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said on CNN's "AC360" Monday night that prosecutors may have a hard time convicting Greaves, and maintained his arrest was unconstitutional.

"I don't think they can go forward because the book is clearly protected by the First Amendment," Toobin said. "This book, as awful as it is, it is only words."

Judd vehemently disagreed with Toobin's assessment of the case and the two sparred on the program.

"This has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with obscenity," Judd said. "We had a law in Florida that applied. We only needed jurisdiction."

**Monster Rain**

Mannahnin wrote:I am quite glad, at the moment, for this thread, because it has disabused me of an erroneous notion. I always like to learn the truth when I am laboring under a lie.

I've found it pretty informative as well.

I'm also left with a lingering question as to what list dogma went on when he ordered this book for his research.

EDIT--

Frazzled's news story kind of changes the perceived tone of the book for me though.

That doesn't seem as innocuous as dogma made it out to be.

astereognosis

**Peter Wiggin**

Tigerone wrote:I dont think you get it...Even by posting something like this you are spreading it to someone that may use that book to hurt someone...its wrong...I do not belive in putting your head in the sand and ingnoring all the bad in the world but, this is a place that has alot of children some of them prob has lived thru something like this.

Conversely, by raising awareness of things like this I am helping to give children and parents yet another tool to avoid predators.

I can do this all day.

**Ahtman**

The problem is fraz that if the Sheriff is as myopic as you on the subject it could say in big bold letters on every page "DON"T DO IT" and they are going to read that as an endorsement. They don't like this guy and they are out to get him and it wouldn't be the first time the state has obfuscated the truth to achieve it's ends, especially for such an emotionally charged subject.

They might, for instance ask for a copy of the book than arrest him for sending them a copy of the book. I also not it says "officials said" instead of being able to point to anything specific. I don't trust these officials at the moment becuase I think they are emotionally compromised. If I were to read the book and it turns out that Dogma's representation of the content is wrong I will gladly change my opinion, but as of now I can go by "officials" or someone I trust to be more honest about the content.

You didn't highlight this parts it seems:

CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said on CNN's "AC360" Monday night that prosecutors may have a hard time convicting Greaves, and maintained his arrest was unconstitutional.

**Peter Wiggin**

Ahtman wrote: Fraz implying people are pedophiles.

I have to admit that I laughed at this. Frazz is the king of certain types of fallacy.

Officials said the book talks about safe sex and avoiding injury to children, grooming and preparing children for sex and teaching children how to lie to their parents.

Judd said Greaves' book outlines a "code of ethics" that shows pedophiles how to look for the most vulnerable children.

Important point, not to mention the one that the entire sordid mess hinges on. I mean if it were just a vulgar novel that would be one thing. A how to guide is another beast entirely.

**Tigerone**

Frazzled wrote:Bail set at $15,000.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/22/florida.obscenity.arrest/index.html
Prosecutors are alleging its a how to manual.

(CNN) -- A Florida judge set bail at $15,000 Wednesday for a man who wrote a controversial book considered a "how-to" guide for pedophiles.

Phillip Greaves, who was arrested in Colorado on Monday, said the book, "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child-Lover's Code of Conduct," can be used as a guide to rehabilitating pedophiles. And, instead of teaching them how to avoid arrest, it teaches them to avoid illegal actions, he said.

Greaves has been charged with the distribution of obscene material depicting minors engaged in harmful conduct, Florida authorities said. He made his first appearance in a Florida courtroom Wednesday afternoon.

His court appearance came a day after he held court in front of reporters explaining the nature of his book. Asked if he is a pedophile, Greaves said, "I only have sex with grown-ups."

He said he has no children and "I don't keep children around my house."

Pedophile guide: Obscene or free speech?

'Pedophile guide' author arrested

Author defended 'how-to' pedophilia book
RELATED TOPICS
Pedophilia
Florida
Child Abuse
Polk County, Florida, Sheriff Grady Judd has said his detectives were able to establish jurisdiction in the case by conducting an undercover operation, buying the book through the mail.

Greaves protested Tuesday saying he is the target of entrapment, but Judd disagreed.

"He wrote this book, he published this book, he put it on Amazon to sell," Judd told reporters as Greaves was being booked into the Polk County Jail, "and he freely responded to our desire to purchase it."

Greaves and his book gained national attention earlier this year after Amazon.com defended selling the book on its website despite angry comments and threats of boycotts from thousands of people. The book was removed from the website in early November.

Officials said the book talks about safe sex and avoiding injury to children, grooming and preparing children for sex and teaching children how to lie to their parents.

Judd said Greaves' book outlines a "code of ethics" that shows pedophiles how to look for the most vulnerable children.
Greaves told reporters Tuesday he wrote the book to exorcise his own childhood. He said he was introduced to sex at the age of 7 by a 10-year-old friend and began having sex with other children. This continued, he said, until he was about 15, when he stopped and did not have sex again for years.

"Once I got into adolescence, I suppose you could have identified me as an adolescent pedophile," he said. But now, he said, he is an example of the fact that people can reform.

"I think all speech should be protected," Greaves said. But "I was not the one who solicited the material to be sent to Florida. I think Florida law is for Floridians and Colorado law is for Coloradoans."

He told reporters he will not be able to make bond: "I'm actually quite poor."

Judge John Kirkland said Wednesday in court that if Greaves does not post bail he must remain in Florida, cannot have contact with anyone younger than 18 and cannot have access to a computer.

CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said on CNN's "AC360" Monday night that prosecutors may have a hard time convicting Greaves, and maintained his arrest was unconstitutional.

"I don't think they can go forward because the book is clearly protected by the First Amendment," Toobin said. "This book, as awful as it is, it is only words."

Judd vehemently disagreed with Toobin's assessment of the case and the two sparred on the program.

"This has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with obscenity," Judd said. "We had a law in Florida that applied. We only needed jurisdiction."

So the book may or may not be what you think it is....

**Da Boss**

That's what we've really gotta be scared of- the paedophile tigers.

**Tigerone**

Calling me a paedophile...?

**Peter Wiggin**

Also, the guy says that he wrote this book as a way to exorcise his own childhood molestation. Thats pretty telling right there.

Shoulda wrote a friggin autobiography, not a pedobear how to guide.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tigerone wrote:Calling me a paedophile...?

Only if you like little kids.

**Mannahnin**

Well, by posting that, you're talking about it. According to Fraz and the Sheriff in FL, you may well be.

**Tigerone**

If you encounter child pornography either online or through the U.S. mail, here is how you can report the crime to the proper authorities. If you encounter child pornography on the Internet, you can report the site address to your Internet Service Provider and your local or state FBI or Customs office listed in your telephone directory.

**Da Boss**

Oh, gak, tiger one, I didn't actually click that your username had tiger in it, hahaha. No, I am not calling you a paedo, I wouldn't do that.
I was actually responding to peter's post about protection from predators and you posted in between.
Heh heh.
I think ye are over-reacting though. Someone can have unhealthy thoughts without acting on them. If this dude has written the book to help paedophiles deal with their urges, then I consider that actually courageous, and applaud him. I am disgusted at the implications made at Dogma in this thread though, leave it out lads.
Drunken Da Boss AWAY!

**Mannahnin**

Thanks for clearing that up!

**Frazzled**

I have to admit that I laughed at this. Frazz is the king of certain types of fallacy.

Is incoherent a fallacy?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:The only person in the thread who has actually read the book says the content is not what you, or the Sheriff in FL, claims it is.

And I don't believe him, at all.
I believe prosecutors and police more than Dogma.

**Tigerone**

Thats it in a nutshell .....It all boils down to what this book is about and I believe the prosecutors.

**Da Boss**

Wow, actually calling Dogma out as a liar. Ballsy. I doubt he'll overeact, but I do think that is pretty rude.

**Medium of Death**

Sadly, unless you want to actually go ahead and read the book you are going to have to accept the courts impression of it.

If that is the conclusion that the Judge has come to, it can't have been taken lightly. I doubt he would be making it up, although he could be interpreting it wrong.

However, ambiguous material on such a controversial subject is probably not for the best.

**Frazzled**

Da Boss wrote:Wow, actually calling Dogma out as a liar. Ballsy. I doubt he'll overeact, but I do think that is pretty rude.

He's directly saying the prosecutor and police are wrong. Either they are lying or he is. They can be slammed by lawyers, judges, and the electorate. he's responsibile to no one. We don't even know who Dogma is, any more than we know who I am. I could be Hugo Chavez for all you know (and I do have some cool crimson red Chavez shirts).

In the words of my first professor in law school: Believe nothing. Trust no one.
Now lets all slam Frazzled for daring to question the Shuma/Dogma/Sebster triiumvirate. but here's a question. I've admitted to being wrong in the past. Has Dogma?

**Howard A Treesong**

Monster Rain wrote:I suppose it makes me an ignorant pleb, but I really don't think I could bring myself to read that book. The whole thing just seems creepy to me.

Certainly so, the whole topic is horrible. But the issue I have is that there are numerous people on this thread who as screaming for this guy to be hanged or shot for writing a "how to" guide. But the more detailed reports and the person on this thread who has actually *read* the book say it's more of a "how not to" guide... to help people with paedophile tendencies find a way not to offend.

Now is that a good thing? Or would people prefer that paedophiles simply have no advice available, because that will obviously solve more problems.

People see a book with the word "paedophile" in the title and assume that it has to be the work of Satan himself and a totally evil publication designed to help paedophiles abuse children... the book couldn't possibly be of any other content other than a manual directly promoting child rape. Could it?

I guess people like Frazzled and others would quite like to identify paedophiles at birth and shoot them through the head. Well that's not going to happen and we don't lock up paedophiles until they actually commit a crime and abuse a child or start handling illegal material. In many cases paedophiles themselves are the victims of abuse continuing a cycle of abuse. So for all those people who are attracted to children but are yet to offend they sit in a grey limbo. They have desires that are repellent the to vast majority of society and urges which are criminal if acted upon and yet there's little advice to help them stay within the law.

Child abuse ruins childhoods and whole lives. However gratifying it must be to lock up offenders for a lifetime or give them a lethal injection surely it would be better to prevent the abuse occurring in the first place. And if a fething book can play a role in stopping sick people acting upon their feelings then perhaps it needs to be looked at a bit more constructively.

Or you know, we could just go back to relying on knee-jerk reactions to anything written in the media and screaming at any book that has any advice at all for paedophiles and demanding that the author is shot on national TV.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Da Boss wrote:Wow, actually calling Dogma out as a liar. Ballsy. I doubt he'll overeact, but I do think that is pretty rude.

He's directly saying the prosecutor and police are wrong. Either they are lying or he is. They can be slammed by lawyers, judges, and the electorate. he's responsibile to no one. We don't even know who Dogma is, any more than we know who I am. I could be Hugo Chavez for all you know (and I do have some cool crimson red Chavez shirts).

You do know that people are innocent until proven otherwise? Of the few threads I've read in the Off Topic section it's something you seem to forget quite often.

**Frazzled**

Howard A Treesong wrote:And if a fething book can play a role in stopping sick people acting upon their feelings then perhaps it needs to be looked at a bit more constructively.

What part of this are you not getting? The prosecutors and police are saying its a how to manual, not some memoir on how bad things occurred and you shouldn't do that. Your defense of this Beast is misplaced.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You do know that people are innocent until proven otherwise? Of the few threads I've read in the Off Topic section it's something you seem to forget quite often.
***In the eyes of the court as a legal standard-yep. In reality they are usually guilty.

**Howard A Treesong**

Frazzled wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:And if a fething book can play a role in stopping sick people acting upon their feelings then perhaps it needs to be looked at a bit more constructively.

What part of this are you not getting? The prosecutors and police are saying its a how to manual, not some memoir on how bad things occurred and you shouldn't do that. Your defense of this Beast is misplaced.

And the police and prosecutors are not *right* until proven so in a court of law. I know you think that everyone charged is automatically guilty like with any terrorism plot thread we seem to have or Julian Assange and Wikileaks but that isn't how the law works.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:***In the eyes of the court as a legal standard-yep. In reality they are usually guilty.

"If he wasn't guilty m'lud he wouldn't be here"

HOWARD FEELS THAT IS A TERRIBLE ARGUMENT AND HE WAS SO UPSET BY IT HE FELT THE NEED TO FLAME SOMEONE. -Edited by Mannahnin.

We're all for strenuous debate here, folks, but please avoid the personal attacks. Bear in mind that people often take what they post here less seriously than they do their real life behavior, and it is best to give people the benefit of the doubt. -The Mgmt.

**Frazzled**

Pathetic. The idea of someone like you sitting on a jury is frightening.

For some reason the thought that you find that frightening pleases me greatly.