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Tri wrote:general advice never take toxic sac on anything with more than strength 4

Except Tervigons, of course, as all Termagants within six inches borrow the toxin and become nasty, especially if the Tervigon also has Adrenals.

Toxin isn't as bad on S6 MCs as people think, because they usually get enough re-rolls to more or less wipe out the disadvantage against low T enemies.

Having just done the maths, the chance of wounding from a single hit is as follows:

S6 MC vs all T from 2 to 8
With toxin = 68%
Without = 61%

S6 MC vs all T from 2 to 6
With toxin = 75%
Without = 74%

S6 MC vs all T from 2 to 4
With toxin = 75%
Without = 84%

It is a matter of likely opponents whether you are better off to give Toxin to MCs, since the slight disadvantage against weak enemies is compensated by the advantage against tough targets.

There is a counter argument that if you have to fight a really Tough opponent, swarming it with poisoned Hormagaunts is the best tactic.

Kilkrazy wrote:S6 MC vs all T from 2 to 8
With toxin = 68%
Without = 61%

S6 MC vs all T from 2 to 6
With toxin = 75%
Without = 74%

S6 MC vs all T from 2 to 4
With toxin = 75%
Without = 84%

... don't like the groupings its to generalised.
Just bothering with the wounding ...
toxin
T1-6 ... 4+ with reroll = 75%
T7-10 ...4+ 50%

Str6
T2-4 ... 2+ = 83.3%
T5... 3+ = 66.6%
T6...4+ = 50%
T7...5+ = 33.3%
T8-9...6's = 16.6%

Str7 (gland)
T2-5 ... 2+ = 83.3%
T6... 3+ = 66.6%
T7...4+ = 50%
T8...5+ = 33.3%
T9-10...6's = 16.6%

Vs T1-4 you do better without ... with the A.gland you do better at T5 ...

And vs tough enemies throw weaker units that can shrug off causalities.

wait, so if you are S4 vs T3 with toxic you do not wound on 3+, only 4?

That's right, models with poison weapons get to reroll failed to wound rolls vs targets with equal or lower T then that models S thought, so that balances it out quiet a bit, and really helps vs targets with equal T to your S

This is why you equip Tervigons with Toxin and Adrenals, because it lets stock Termagants attack on S4 with Toxin, which lets them inflict a lot of wounds even on SMs.

Just because i like complete facts and figures ... (to add the gland just move up a strength)
Basic Str 3:- T1=83.3%, T2= 66.6%, T3=50%, T4=33.3%, T5-6=16%
Toxic Str3:- T1-3 =75%, t4-10 = 50%
Basic Str 4:- T1-2=83.3%, T3= 66.6%, T4=50%, T5=33.3%, T6-7=16%
Toxic Str4:- T1-4 =75%, t5-10 = 50%
Basic Str 5:- T1-3=83.3%, T4= 66.6%, T5=50%, T5=33.3%, T7-8=16%
Toxic Str5:- T1-5 =75%, t6-10 = 50%

.... I've seen this once when the codex came out ....
carnifex Glands and toxic

Basic Str 9:- T1-7=83.3%, T8= 66.6%, T9=50%, T10=33.3%,
Toxic Str9:- T1-9 =75%, t10 = 50%
Basic Str 10:- T1-8=83.3%, T9= 66.6%, T10=50%,
Toxic Str10:- T1-10 =75%,

unless you know you'll be facing a bio titan, a greater daemon (apoc versions) or a gargantuan squiggoth there isn't much point in this upgrade forgot gargantuan creatures can't be hurt by poison unless they roll a 6 ... it really is a completely wasted upgrade

general advice never take toxic sac on anything with more than strength 4

Strength 5 I think can stand to get toxin sacs, like say tyranid primes and tervigons (even ignoring the boost to gants). Still get a boost against T4+, which are usually the models where more armor ignoring hits are worthwhile. Not often that T3 models/units are going to scare me so much that a 13% drop in effectiveness is all that worrisome on my tervigons and primes.

S6+ though I agree wholeheartedly.

Giving Tervigons Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands and then piggy-backing local Termagants off them is risky though. The risk, specifically, is opening them up to a multi-charge while they're Fearless. Okay, they'll get Poison (4+), but hoo-boy are they squishy, and that squishy-ness can bleed over to the Tervigon. Besides, it's only 30pts a brood for Termagants to have one or the other. Paying the premium for models that can move outside of that 6" area of effect can be very handy.

So basically, the 'nidz are about getting rid of the HW quickly, keeping the MCs alive for armor-busting, good use of screening cover-to-cover Gaunts and ganking low-armored vehicles with Hive Guards, while the Psykers buff the sh*t out of your units, and debuff the enemy?

Does that apply to other armies other than MEQ aswell (such as Orks, IG, Chaos etc?)
- Anything to be aware of, when speaking of non-MEQ armies?

Eat them? =) Lots of bio-matter

Billinator wrote:So basically, the 'nidz are about getting rid of the HW quickly, keeping the MCs alive for armor-busting, good use of screening cover-to-cover Gaunts and ganking low-armored vehicles with Hive Guards, while the Psykers buff the sh*t out of your units, and debuff the enemy?

Does that apply to other armies other than MEQ aswell (such as Orks, IG, Chaos etc?)
- Anything to be aware of, when speaking of non-MEQ armies?

Read the rules for Fearless.
Cry a little.
Learn the rules for No Retreat.
Start bawling.
Find out in one disastrous instant exactly how bad the entire codex is screwed by No Retreat and multiple assaults.
Give up on the codex because this is beyond 'a weakness'.

@Limbo
Just the answer i was looking for!

@S.Y.G.
Yeah, you kinda get the feeling, that 5th Edit is a little biased overall, don't ya? (eg. i can see an arm sticking out. Now i can shoot down your entire squad!)
Outnumbering and overrunning your opponent just doesn't cut it, most if the time.

I still haven't been able to wrap my mind too much around "who goes first", deployment (reserve or no reserve) if opponent goes first, and such.
I do, however, finely grasp utilization of cover, where and how to move your units, and a basic understanding of which units to watch out for, and how to watch out for them.