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Yes, cut ruthlessly.

Most of the fluff can be exported to novels and albums.

Hobby advice can be cut in half easily -- there is White Dwarf and "How To Paint Citadel Miniatures".

Delete duplicated troops and equipment.

It can be done, if GW have the will.

The problem with the DA Codex isn't that it isn't diferent enough from the Space marine codex, its that it's very badly designed.

If DA are done properly then Ravenwing and Deathwing would be the smallest of changes from the standard codex, and all the other oddities could be added in, like watchers in the dark, warp beasts (or something like that) etc. hell it could even become the first truelly "Gun line" SM codex

That would be interesting, Formosa.
We'll se what the update does (when it happens)

Formosa wrote:The problem with the DA Codex isn't that it isn't diferent enough from the Space marine codex, its that it's very badly designed.

Definitely. But...

If DA are done properly then Ravenwing and Deathwing would be the smallest of changes from the standard codex, and all the other oddities could be added in, like watchers in the dark, warp beasts (or something like that) etc. hell it could even become the first truly "Gun line" SM codex

Warp Beasts and Watchers in the Dark really have nothing to do with the Dark Angels.

The Watchers in the Dark are just something that tags along into battle. They never take part, nothing they do ever swings the tide of battle or does anything aside from them sort of being a hat rack for the Chaptermaster Azrael. Arguably, you could do something with them and have them conferring a strategic initiative(since they're supposed to be Psykers on par with Eldrad, if "Descent of Angels" is to be believed) or some kind of bonus.

Warp Beasts though, were something that occurred on Caliban. It was a result of the planet being tainted to its very core, and spawned such monstrosities as the Calibanite Lions.

But--those were all killed off when Caliban was destroyed. And the "Calibanite Lions"? They weren't Lions. They were just given that name by the settlers, and were more like Chimerae--blending features of all different kinds of beasts.

The last part though, I definitely agree with. Dark Angels could easily become the first real "combined arms" Astartes codex. The Ravenwing launching flank attacks and grabbing a vital objective while the main force holds the line with precision gunfire and sheer tenacity until the Deathwing steps in?
Easily makes for a more interesting playstyle than most will admit.

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes, cut ruthlessly.

All of the fluff can be exported to novels and albums.

Hobby advice can be cut completly -- there is White Dwarf and "How To Paint Citadel Miniatures".

Delete troops and equipment.

It can be done, if GW have the will.

A) fixed it for you.
B) codex BT = 64, codex DA = 89, codex SW = 96, codex BA = 96, codex SM = 144. Doesn't look like 64 "is the common size"......
C) one design at one edition of 40k. Can't do one codex that way without every other codex following that design. Lets see the level of happyness when the
non-SM players find out what you have done to them.

is the trick to have 64 pages A0 format?

Go on and support the illusion of a 64 pages combined SM codex.
The moment you cut plastic kits from codices is the moment the company cuts your contract.

Killkrazy made some great posts about being able to do the combination of Codices. Read them! Ha.

Yes, it could be done, it would all be in a very different format though and they wouldnt have to fill the Codex with junk just to fill the pages.

I dont think GW ever will though. Where will they put the future space marine Codices?? There will be more.

They would have to alter the format of every Codex if they were to do the Space Marine codex that KK suggests.

And no matter what, that would be a crummy codex.

See, what did I say? Completely convinced their color of marines is different from that color of marines. Just no reasoning with the mind set and the furor that would come from doing something intelligent and in the best interest of the hobby would be unprecedented. Too many people play marines and think the special treatment their army gets is what they deserve. They could never handle being brought so low as to deal with the bread crumbs and back-of-the-hand 'tough love' that other armies put up with year after year.

SumYungGui wrote:See, what did I say? Completely convinced their color of marines is different from that color of marines. Just no reasoning with the mind set and the furor that would come from doing something intelligent and in the best interest of the hobby would be unprecedented. Too many people play marines and think the special treatment their army gets is what they deserve. They could never handle being brought so low as to deal with the bread crumbs and back-of-the-hand 'tough love' that other armies put up with year after year.

Considered to not reply to such whining.

But here I am.

1) when the commonly used size of codices in a edition of WH 40k is different to the suggested size of a "SMsc",
2) when the company responsible for publications of 40k codices enlarges codices from edition to edition,
3) when basic layout does not allow to put the content into what is suggested as size,

then I feel its only right to criticise any claim of " it can be done at XX pages ".
It just can't. GW won't change codex sizes to adopt this suggested format.
Example: codex SM 3rd ed = 48 pages, codex SM 4th ed = 80 pages, codex SM 5th ed = 144 pages;
Doesn't look like there was nothing added and can be cut "ruthlessly" without keeping that "ruthlessness" after the 1st codex of a new edition. I am fine with your favourite codex cut down to a single page in a "non-SM super codex". You won't need more, like Killkrazy said: there is WD for you.....

4) doing something intelligent...
- have a look at the past?

3rd ed:

- space marines 48 pages
- choas space marines 48 pages ( surprise surprise...)
- imperial guard 48 pages ( again? )
- Eldar 48 pages ( must be a pattern...)
- Dark Eldar .....48? yep 48 pages
- orks 48 pages ( even orks..)
- tyranids 48 pages ( how so? accident? )
- mini-codices 25-30 pages ( could list them, but I think you know them ).



Follow-ups:

- space marines 48 pages
- Space marines 80 pages
- Space marines 144 pages

- choas space marines 48 pages
- choas space marines 80 pages
- chaos space marines 104 pages

- imperial guard 48 pages
- imperial guard 64 pages
- imperial guard 104 pages

- orks 48 pages
- orks 104 pages

- Eldar 48 pages
- Eldar 83 pages

- Dark eldar 48 pages
- Dark eldar 96 pages

- tyranids 48 pages
- tyranids 64 pages
- tyranids 96 pages

- T'au 64 pages
- T'au empire 64 pages

- dark angels 25 pages
- dark angels 88 pages

- blood angels 25 pages
- blood angels 96 pages

- space wolves 25 pages
- space wolves 96 pages

- Necrons 64 pages
- demonhunters 64 pages
- witchhunters 64 pages
- EoT campaign dex 50 pages
- chaos demons 88 pages
- black templars 64 pages

5th ed :

- Space marines 144 pages
- imperial guard 104 pages
- space wolves 96 pages
- tyranids 96 pages
- blood angels 96 pages
- Dark eldar 96 pages

guess the size of upcoming GK: maybe 96 pages?

Seems the size doubled since 3rd ed. Why should (6th,7th or? ) revert back to only 75%?

5) the best interest of the hobby...

- is the best interest to reduce the hobby material in a codex?
- is the best interest to reduce background?
- is the best interest to reduce existing metal and plastic models?
- is the best interest to drive off the collectors with the above?

The best interest is to not cater to elitists.

6) bread crumbs.

Such a well thought out idea. Lets treat them like DE and they will go away.
Oh wait, De codex wasn't shrinked...got new models.......
Maybe like necrons then?
Just 1 codex, only a few models....but what if there is a codex behind the rumors , what if it is expanded.....

To achieve your weird state, may I suggest to start your own club and:

- Prohibit playing SM
- Prohibit painting SM in any color

See, success is guaranteed!

- No space marines around you!
- ......

7) 'super' codex.

So a 'super' codex is so super, it hasn't even half of the content of a basic codex....

Kanluwen wrote:They would have to alter the format of every Codex if they were to do the Space Marine codex that KK suggests.

And no matter what, that would be a crummy codex.

No, they wouldn't. No-one else except Space Mariens has five codexes for basically one force.

It would be a great codex.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They would have to alter the format of every Codex if they were to do the Space Marine codex that KK suggests.

And no matter what, that would be a crummy codex.

No, they wouldn't. No-one else except Space Mariens has five codexes for basically one force.

It would be a great codex.

Except you're not advocating it to be a "super codex".

You're altering stripping out the entire format of how Codices are set up(fluff section being a certain percentage of the book, etc).

So yes, they would have to alter the format of every Codex to reflect that.

Kanluwen wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They would have to alter the format of every Codex if they were to do the Space Marine codex that KK suggests.

And no matter what, that would be a crummy codex.

No, they wouldn't. No-one else except Space Mariens has five codexes for basically one force.

It would be a great codex.

Except you're not advocating it to be a "super codex".

You're altering stripping out the entire format of how Codices are set up(fluff section being a certain percentage of the book, etc).

So yes, they would have to alter the format of every Codex to reflect that.

Welll good.

They alter the style of the codexes nearly every edition. And so far it has been for the better.

#1: Black Library is god awful. It is NOT canon, will never be canon, and SHOULD never be canon. Porting fluff out to those books means many people would never know or care about the fluff of their army. It's bad enough in some codices already (see: Necron and Blood Angel bro job), without letting some of those Black Library hacks getting to it.

#2: Super dex with traits. They tried that, it didn't work. I'm not sure why you think it would work now. Do Chaos Space Marines sort of get the shaft? Absolutely. Does that mean anything regarding the other armies? Absolutely not. You can argue for a worthwhile Chaos Dex without arguing against other Dexes.

#3: Combining loyalist books. I play Space Wolves (along with 4 others). If you honestly think that just moving assault marines to troops and changing our bikes for wolves leaves the army in tact, you're either delusional or have not regularly fielded Space Wolves. SW Scouts are not SM Scouts. Wolf Guard are not Sternguard. Blood Claws are not Assault Troops (we can take Skyclaws for that).

#4: Xenos need more love. I completely agree. 100%. Absolutely. Never hear otherwise from me. After the amazing SW codex, the Tyranid Dex was the biggest disappointment that GW has ever landed in my lap. Does that mean I blame the SW dex? Or the annoyingly stupid BA Dex that followed? No. I blame the craptastical hack that wrote it, who had nothing to do with either of the other dexes. Blame where blame is do, don't just rage blindly.

#5: Too much of these 4 pages is "My army should be the special little fairy!" "No! My army should be!" "No, this force is much more deserving!"

Bah, forget it.