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Hargus56 wrote:Really there is no more threat then there was yesterday, they are going to strike if and when they can. The big news is he was killed in a compound near Islamabad, not in some caves, you telling me Pakistan officials did not know? I hope we nuke the gak out of Pakistan, how's that for a response for telling us to halt our air strikes or else?
The President explicitly stated this was done with the approval of the Pakistani government.
And he said he received intelligence months ago on lead, you telling me some Pakistani official wasn't told "hey they know, we gotta give him up or they stop payment on the $6 billion in aid every year"
Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd
-Alexis de Tocqueville.
dogma wrote:This is still important to people? Like, important enough to inspire an impromptu parade?
Huh, go figure.
We are storytellers, and we love a narrative. "Guy did something bad, then some time later he was made to account" is one of the classic stories.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
WarOne wrote: In NY, we haven't forgotten. This has been a long day coming, and it helps to close a chapter in this story with no winners.
I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.
Understood.
You have to been there when your teacher walks a television into your school room, turns it on, and shows you the dramatic event unfolding a short distance away, where your loved ones live and work and you have no idea if the events affect them in any way (thankfully for my family, there was no deaths due to 9/11).
The horror, confusion, and speculation of the event was a profound event for many here in NY and nearby. It's hard to describe unless you experience something as traumatic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/02 04:07:57
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
Hargus56 wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
Hargus56 wrote:Really there is no more threat then there was yesterday, they are going to strike if and when they can. The big news is he was killed in a compound near Islamabad, not in some caves, you telling me Pakistan officials did not know? I hope we nuke the gak out of Pakistan, how's that for a response for telling us to halt our air strikes or else?
The President explicitly stated this was done with the approval of the Pakistani government.
And he said he received intelligence months ago on lead, you telling me some Pakistani official wasn't told "hey they know, we gotta give him up or they stop payment on the $6 billion in aid every year"
Osama's sucess in remaining hidden for a decade would not have been possible if he had involved the Pakistani government.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
Asherian Command wrote:The head of the serpent is cut but the coils can still be deadly.
I think i can sleep better tonight knowing he is dead.
Osama wasn't in charge of anything any more. He wasn't the head of anything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mike Noble wrote:
dogma wrote:
WarOne wrote:
In NY, we haven't forgotten. This has been a long day coming, and it helps to close a chapter in this story with no winners.
I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.
You don't think it sucks that thousands of people died? I mean, I guess you may not consider that an emotional reaction, but still.
Over a quarter million have died in Iraq since we invaded. Who do we blame for that? Do we throw a parade when Rummy dies?
Again....there was no winners.
If you want to go back a bit further, we could conjecture if our foreign policy of the past is to blame for the events that lead up to 9/11, but I'll leave that line of thought for another day.
Hargus56 wrote:Really there is no more threat then there was yesterday, they are going to strike if and when they can. The big news is he was killed in a compound near Islamabad, not in some caves, you telling me Pakistan officials did not know? I hope we nuke the gak out of Pakistan, how's that for a response for telling us to halt our air strikes or else?
The President explicitly stated this was done with the approval of the Pakistani government.
And he said he received intelligence months ago on lead, you telling me some Pakistani official wasn't told "hey they know, we gotta give him up or they stop payment on the $6 billion in aid every year"
Osama's sucess in remaining hidden for a decade would not have been possible if he had involved the Pakistani government.
Nor would it have been possible without their tacit consent of islamic extremism within their borders as a weapon against India. Theres a reason he went to pakistan. It wasn't because they were gung ho about finding him.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
WarOne wrote:If you want to go back a bit further, we could conjecture if our foreign policy of the past is to blame for the events that lead up to 9/11, but I'll leave that line of thought for another day.
That's probably for the best.
If people want to rehash that again they should probably start a new thread.
What's important here is that a very bad guy got his comeuppance.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
LittleLeadMen wrote:The whole thing is a PSYOP. Has always been. First, Bin laden has been dead for some time.
Your conspiracy makes no sense. It relies on taking loose speculation as evidence. It posits that bin Laden had been in a cave, when we know by direct evidence of where he was killed that he was staying in a mansion in Pakistan. You suppose that they were waiting for the perfect time to reveal the body, without giving any reason as to why now might be that perfect time. And most ridiculously, it argues that the Bush administration would have accepted constant criticism for being unable to bring bin Laden to justice, while they were in possession of the corpse, and just never got around to announcing bin Laden's death while they were in office.
The theory makes no sense.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
WarOne wrote:If you want to go back a bit further, we could conjecture if our foreign policy of the past is to blame for the events that lead up to 9/11, but I'll leave that line of thought for another day.
That's probably for the best.
If people want to rehash that again they should probably start a new thread.
What's important here is that a very bad guy got his comeuppance.
WarOne wrote:
In NY, we haven't forgotten. This has been a long day coming, and it helps to close a chapter in this story with no winners.
I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.
Many of us did. My SO at the time lost one of her brothers in the towers. I drove her down that day from Boston to his house in Scarsdale, where the family gathered around his pregnant widow and twin young sons. Another of her brothers was a doctor in the city, and was the last to join us in the house, as he had made his way down the island trying to find more info. Yet another of her brothers and his wife also worked in the towers, liviing in Century City across the street and only weren't there yet because the babysitter was late. They were evacuated across the river by tugboat, and also joined us in the evening.
The day comes late, and probably makes little or no material difference to the war(s) now, but we are still glad it has come.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/02 04:16:23
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
ShumaGorath wrote:Nor would it have been possible without their tacit consent of islamic extremism within their borders as a weapon against India. Theres a reason he went to pakistan. It wasn't because they were gung ho about finding him.
One thing to see that it was a friendly neighborhood, another to claim it was a government conspiracy.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
Mike Noble wrote:With the increase in U.S. security in the past 10 years, it is unlikely that the terrorists could do much to us here, but our soldiers who are still in Afghanistan are in danger. That's what I'm worried about.
They were already in danger. What do you propose, not bring people to account for the murder of innocent civilians?
No, all we can do is back our guys to be more capable than their guys. And this is a good example of guys being more capable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/02 04:15:23
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Go put on your tinfoil hat and go somewhere else. We're celebrating.
Not a tinfoil hat if you show the mainstream news reports that clearly state he was dead before this announcement. Benazir Bhutto was the head of Pakistan, and by extension, the Pakistani ISI, their equivalent of the CIA, or MOSSAD. Don't forget that the ISI was the mechanism that the US used to distribute training, equipment, and arms to the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan throughout the 1980's. They had a long a complicated relationship with Bin Laden, supporting him, them essentially forced to renounce him when the United States co-opted Pakistan to fight the war on terror.
That's not tinfoil hat, it's established facts, especially with regard to the mainstream reporting of Bin Laden's death multiple times over the last decade.
dogma wrote:I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.
You probably just need to accept that yours is a very different reaction to most people, and leave it at that.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
ShumaGorath wrote:Nor would it have been possible without their tacit consent of islamic extremism within their borders as a weapon against India. Theres a reason he went to pakistan. It wasn't because they were gung ho about finding him.
One thing to see that it was a friendly neighborhood, another to claim it was a government conspiracy.
No conspiracy. The pakistan government trains and bankrolls islamists so that they strike at India. Ask the CIA, they talk about it all the time.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
Hargus56 wrote:And he said he received intelligence months ago on lead, you telling me some Pakistani official wasn't told "hey they know, we gotta give him up or they stop payment on the $6 billion in aid every year"
Uh, I don't think you really understand the complexity of Pakistani politics.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Emperors Faithful wrote:Last I checked those claims/rumours weren't substantiated with a body. This time looks different.
Oh, I don't mean the claims of Osama being there were substantiated. The claims of extremists in pakistan are substantiated every time we use a predator to shoot something there though. The CIA has always suspected that he was in Pakistan and their government has always been an obstacle in actually searching for him. Fortunately it looks like we stopped caring two years ago.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
ShumaGorath wrote:Over a quarter million have died in Iraq since we invaded. Who do we blame for that? Do we throw a parade when Rummy dies?
I seem to recall a lot of angry typing from you saying that Iraq and 9/11 were unrelated.
I don't see the correlation.
Non sequitur.
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Asherian Command wrote:The head of the serpent is cut but the coils can still be deadly.
I think i can sleep better tonight knowing he is dead.
Osama wasn't in charge of anything any more. He wasn't the head of anything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mike Noble wrote:
dogma wrote:
WarOne wrote:
In NY, we haven't forgotten. This has been a long day coming, and it helps to close a chapter in this story with no winners.
I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.
You don't think it sucks that thousands of people died? I mean, I guess you may not consider that an emotional reaction, but still.
Over a quarter million have died in Iraq since we invaded. Who do we blame for that? Do we throw a parade when Rummy dies?
Comparing death in mutual open warfare started by an un-provoked attack ond the american people to the murder of innocent people is a logical stretch at best.
Osama Bin Laden is the single biggest serial killer in United States history. If some dude killed say...50 random men, women, and children, wouldn't you be happy he was caught. That's what this is, we brought a murderer to justice.
Nobody is saying this is going to stop terrorist attacks, if anything it will provoke even more. It's a great symbolic victory for us, and you can't even being to imagine how it must feel those thousands of people who's love ones were needlessly and thoughtlessly murdered because of this man.
ShumaGorath wrote:Over a quarter million have died in Iraq since we invaded. Who do we blame for that? Do we throw a parade when Rummy dies?
I will. You can come if you want.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
ShumaGorath wrote:Nor would it have been possible without their tacit consent of islamic extremism within their borders as a weapon against India. Theres a reason he went to pakistan. It wasn't because they were gung ho about finding him.
One thing to see that it was a friendly neighborhood, another to claim it was a government conspiracy.
No conspiracy. The pakistan government trains and bankrolls islamists so that they strike at India. Ask the CIA, they talk about it all the time.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
ShumaGorath wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Nor would it have been possible without their tacit consent of islamic extremism within their borders as a weapon against India. Theres a reason he went to pakistan. It wasn't because they were gung ho about finding him.
One thing to see that it was a friendly neighborhood, another to claim it was a government conspiracy.
No conspiracy. The pakistan government trains and bankrolls islamists so that they strike at India. Ask the CIA, they talk about it all the time.
The bit about them sheltering Osama would have to be a conspiracy. If the government was involved (or if any large number of people were involved) in his hiding, he would never have managed to avoid detection this long without someone giving serious thought to the prize bounty.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
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