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Griever wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:The head of the serpent is cut but the coils can still be deadly.
I think i can sleep better tonight knowing he is dead.

Osama wasn't in charge of anything any more. He wasn't the head of anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike Noble wrote:

dogma wrote:

WarOne wrote:
In NY, we haven't forgotten. This has been a long day coming, and it helps to close a chapter in this story with no winners.

I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.

You don't think it sucks that thousands of people died? I mean, I guess you may not consider that an emotional reaction, but still.

Over a quarter million have died in Iraq since we invaded. Who do we blame for that? Do we throw a parade when Rummy dies?

Comparing death in mutual open warfare started by an un-provoked attack ond the american people to the murder of innocent people is a logical stretch at best.

Osama Bin Laden is the single biggest serial killer in United States history. If some dude killed say...50 random men, women, and children, wouldn't you be happy he was caught. That's what this is, we brought a murderer to justice.

Nobody is saying this is going to stop terrorist attacks, if anything it will provoke even more. It's a great symbolic victory for us, and you can't even being to imagine how it must feel those thousands of people who's love ones were needlessly and thoughtlessly murdered because of this man.

We lost more people to the japanese and germans. How did Osama kill them more then hitler did? The comparison is facile, Osamas death is nothing like the surrender of japan.

WarOne wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Last I checked those claims/rumours weren't substantiated with a body. This time looks different.

When the President of the United States states Osama is dead and we have the body, it does sorta say that Osama Bin Laden is dead.

+1

It's not like it's on some random blog.

ShumaGorath wrote:We lost more people to the japanese and germans. How did Osama kill them more then hitler did?

Are we not happy that Hitler is dead?

Way to Godwinize the thread though.

sebster wrote:

LittleLeadMen wrote:The whole thing is a PSYOP. Has always been. First, Bin laden has been dead for some time.

Your conspiracy makes no sense. It relies on taking loose speculation as evidence. It posits that bin Laden had been in a cave, when we know by direct evidence of where he was killed that he was staying in a mansion in Pakistan. You suppose that they were waiting for the perfect time to reveal the body, without giving any reason as to why now might be that perfect time. And most ridiculously, it argues that the Bush administration would have accepted constant criticism for being unable to bring bin Laden to justice, while they were in possession of the corpse, and just never got around to announcing bin Laden's death while they were in office.

The theory makes no sense.

it's not MY conspiracy. I'm simply pointing out that he has been reported dead, by a variety of sources, including the head of Pakistan, multiple times over the last decade. that's not me, coming up with this stuff. The statements are a matter of public record- and I only supplied a few of them to you. There are far more out there.

I have no understanding nor rationale nor explanation as to the reasons for the "big reveal" now. I'm not here to speculate as to that.

For all we know, he WAS just killed. But he was a terribly sick man on dialysis over a decade ago- that was a matter of public record, even confirmed by the CIA. I'm simply pointing out that most people are unaware that he has been reported dead years ago, by mainstream established sources.


I'm certainly happy he's dead. I lived in NYC for 12 years, and suffered through 9/11 when it happened, lost good friends, as well. I also come from a background with a number of "friends" in intelligence, as well as having read a ridiculous number of books on the subject. it's a .... "hobby". I know enough from people in that "business" that the public story, the presented narrative, is rarely as tidy as it is shown.

WarOne wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Last I checked those claims/rumours weren't substantiated with a body. This time looks different.

When the President of the United States states Osama is dead and we have the body, it does sorta say that Osama Bin Laden is dead.

...you're agreeing with me, right?

ChrisWWII wrote:

infinite_array wrote:We've got people setting off fireworks and banging pots and pans out in the streets of my campus. Good times.

I'm in Scotland and it's 5 a.m. I want a giant American flag so I can run through the streets cheering.

Do it.

ShumaGorath wrote:Nor would it have been possible without their tacit consent of islamic extremism within their borders as a weapon against India. Theres a reason he went to pakistan. It wasn't because they were gung ho about finding him.

They've engaged in open war with Islamic groups in that time.

Pakistani politics is the story of multiple groups with extremely different ideologies vying for domination within the government. Picking out one instance of support for an Islamic group and trying to use that to suggest the whole of the Pakistani government works that way is a mistaken approach.

Emperors Faithful wrote:The bit about them sheltering Osama would have to be a conspiracy. If the government was involved (or if any large number of people were involved) in his hiding, he would never have managed to avoid detection this long without someone giving serious thought to the prize bounty.

Pakistan's actual involvement of sheltering Osama will always remain in question by some fraction of our populace, especially when new media reports alway tell us how some terrorists seem to easily slip between the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and evade our net of capture.

LittleLeadMen wrote:

sebster wrote:

LittleLeadMen wrote:The whole thing is a PSYOP. Has always been. First, Bin laden has been dead for some time.

Your conspiracy makes no sense. It relies on taking loose speculation as evidence. It posits that bin Laden had been in a cave, when we know by direct evidence of where he was killed that he was staying in a mansion in Pakistan. You suppose that they were waiting for the perfect time to reveal the body, without giving any reason as to why now might be that perfect time. And most ridiculously, it argues that the Bush administration would have accepted constant criticism for being unable to bring bin Laden to justice, while they were in possession of the corpse, and just never got around to announcing bin Laden's death while they were in office.

The theory makes no sense.

it's not MY conspiracy. I'm simply pointing out that he has been reported dead, by a variety of sources, including the head of Pakistan, multiple times over the last decade. that's not me, coming up with this stuff. The statements are a matter of public record- and I only supplied a few of them to you. There are far more out there.

I have no understanding nor rationale nor explanation as to the reasons for the "big reveal" now. I'm not here to speculate as to that.

For all we know, he WAS just killed. But he was a terribly sick man on dialysis over a decade ago- that was a matter of public record, even confirmed by the CIA. I'm simply pointing out that most people are unaware that he has been reported dead years ago, by mainstream established sources.

So you're saying you trust "the head of pakistan" and "mainstream media" over the united states government and it's president? Interesting. If they were so sure he was dead, why was a body never produced? Apparently, we now have this.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

WarOne wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Last I checked those claims/rumours weren't substantiated with a body. This time looks different.

When the President of the United States states Osama is dead and we have the body, it does sorta say that Osama Bin Laden is dead.

...you're agreeing with me, right?

Well, I was.

I thought he was too.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

WarOne wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Last I checked those claims/rumours weren't substantiated with a body. This time looks different.

When the President of the United States states Osama is dead and we have the body, it does sorta say that Osama Bin Laden is dead.

...you're agreeing with me, right?

I agree that you question that I am agreeing with you.

EDIT: Yes.

Monster Rain wrote:

WarOne wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Last I checked those claims/rumours weren't substantiated with a body. This time looks different.

When the President of the United States states Osama is dead and we have the body, it does sorta say that Osama Bin Laden is dead.

+1

It's not like it's on some random blog.

ShumaGorath wrote:We lost more people to the japanese and germans. How did Osama kill them more then hitler did?

Are we not happy that Hitler is dead?

Way to Godwinize the thread though.

Hey mang, he brought up world war two. Not me. But hey, if anyone gets to be compared to hitler these days without it being a troll post at least it can be Osama.

Zuul wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:

infinite_array wrote:We've got people setting off fireworks and banging pots and pans out in the streets of my campus. Good times.

I'm in Scotland and it's 5 a.m. I want a giant American flag so I can run through the streets cheering.

Do it.

First, get buck naked, paint yourself in Red, White, and Blue, and then go with the Flag running and screaming.

Yes, you might get arrested, but if you're going to go out, go hardcore.

ShumaGorath wrote:Hey mang, he brought up world war two. Not me. But hey, if anyone gets to be compared to hitler these days without it being a troll post at least it can be Osama.

Osama does not equal Hitler. 9/11 does not equal WWII. But both 9/11 and WWII had profound impacts on our society.

WarOne wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Hey mang, he brought up world war two. Not me. But hey, if anyone gets to be compared to hitler these days without it being a troll post at least it can be Osama.

Osama does not equal Hitler. 9/11 does not equal WWII. But both 9/11 and WWII had profound impacts on our society.

+1

Well put.

I'm not going to believe Osama bin Laden is really dead until I see the long form death certificate. Why doesn't Obama release the long form death certificate? Don't believe the lame stream media without proof in the form of a long form death certificate. Where is the long form death certificate?

ShumaGorath wrote:But hey, if anyone gets to be compared to hitler these days without it being a troll post at least it can be Osama.

Goddammit.

When you're right, you're right.

Griever wrote:So you're saying you trust "the head of pakistan" and "mainstream media" over the united states government and it's president? Interesting. If they were so sure he was dead, why was a body never produced? Apparently, we now have this.

1st of all, no need to use quotation marks, which implies that these aren't the sources listed. "head of Pakistan" was in fact, the Head of Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto. I certainly wouldn't write "President of the United States" that way, as it implies that it isn't true. Same goes for "Mainstream media". It was the Pakistan Observer, a well known news outlet in that part of the world, as well as reported on Reuters and Fox at the time.

And, for the record, I don't recall the USA president actually producing the body on live TV, either. Maybe in the coming days. Again, I'm not doubting that the dude is dead. He's dead. There's considerable reporting that states he may have been dead for some time. Maybe its true and he just got killed. Either way, there is more than one narrative going on here over the years, and they conflict.

schadenfreude wrote:I'm not going to believe Osama bin Laden is really dead until I see the long form death certificate. Why doesn't Obama release the long form death certificate? Don't believe the lame stream media without proof in the form of a long form death certificate. Where is the long form death certificate?

Genius.

LittleLeadMen wrote:And, for the record, I don't recall the USA president actually producing the body on live TV, either. Maybe in the coming days.

This conjured a Weekend at Bernie's type image in my mind, with Obama running around with Bin Laden's corpse. Hilarity ensues.

I think this sums things up.

LittleLeadMen wrote:it's not MY conspiracy.

You're the one who is here arguing it. Take ownership.

I'm simply pointing out that he has been reported dead, by a variety of sources, including the head of Pakistan, multiple times over the last decade. that's not me, coming up with this stuff. The statements are a matter of public record- and I only supplied a few of them to you. There are far more out there.

And it is clear the statements were matters of opinion and speculation, with no substantiated evidence behind them.

I have no understanding nor rationale nor explanation as to the reasons for the "big reveal" now. I'm not here to speculate as to that.

In order to speculate that a conspiracy might exist, you need a plausible reason for the conspiracy to exist. You need a 'why' before it can even start being considered for plausibility.

For all we know, he WAS just killed.

He was. To speculate otherwise we'd need actual evidence, and all we have is speculation from people years ago.

I know enough from people in that "business" that the public story, the presented narrative, is rarely as tidy as it is shown.

That's just lazy. While it is good to be skeptical of the media we're presented with, that skepticism should drive you to examine and study the stories, not just say 'who knows anything' and then start making up whatever we think is the most exciting possibility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WarOne wrote:Pakistan's actual involvement of sheltering Osama will always remain in question by some fraction of our populace, especially when new media reports alway tell us how some terrorists seem to easily slip between the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and evade our net of capture.

Pakistan is not a person, it is not a single entity with a single belief set and single method of operating. If it were it'd be doing a whole lot better, either as an oppressive theocracy or as a modern, liberal state.

It is absolutely true that citizens in Pakistan helped shelter Osama. It is almost certainly true that elements within Pakistani government helped shelter Osama. But it also true elements in the Pakistani government aided the US in trying to track him down, and were aware of this operation.

Good riddance/
as for revenge attacks. He would have planned attacks against us so killing him does not change things substantially. We would have been attacked anyway, so eliminating him, though not a profound change in world events does send a message.
This was a good thing.

sebster wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WarOne wrote:Pakistan's actual involvement of sheltering Osama will always remain in question by some fraction of our populace, especially when new media reports alway tell us how some terrorists seem to easily slip between the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and evade our net of capture.

Pakistan is not a person, it is not a single entity with a single belief set and single method of operating. If it were it'd be doing a whole lot better, either as an oppressive theocracy or as a modern, liberal state.

It is absolutely true that citizens in Pakistan helped shelter Osama. It is almost certainly true that elements within Pakistani government helped shelter Osama. But it also true elements in the Pakistani government aided the US in trying to track him down, and were aware of this operation.

I got lazy there and should of said Pakistani government.

Skulls for the skull throne!

Monster Rain wrote:

Skulls for the skull throne!

And the riveting sequel...

ShumaGorath wrote:

Griever wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:The head of the serpent is cut but the coils can still be deadly.
I think i can sleep better tonight knowing he is dead.

Osama wasn't in charge of anything any more. He wasn't the head of anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike Noble wrote:

dogma wrote:

WarOne wrote:
In NY, we haven't forgotten. This has been a long day coming, and it helps to close a chapter in this story with no winners.

I suppose I understand that. I never really had an emotional reaction to 9/11 either, so this feels like a very odd level of enthusiasm.

You don't think it sucks that thousands of people died? I mean, I guess you may not consider that an emotional reaction, but still.

Over a quarter million have died in Iraq since we invaded. Who do we blame for that? Do we throw a parade when Rummy dies?

Comparing death in mutual open warfare started by an un-provoked attack ond the american people to the murder of innocent people is a logical stretch at best.

Osama Bin Laden is the single biggest serial killer in United States history. If some dude killed say...50 random men, women, and children, wouldn't you be happy he was caught. That's what this is, we brought a murderer to justice.

Nobody is saying this is going to stop terrorist attacks, if anything it will provoke even more. It's a great symbolic victory for us, and you can't even being to imagine how it must feel those thousands of people who's love ones were needlessly and thoughtlessly murdered because of this man.

We lost more people to the japanese and germans. How did Osama kill them more then hitler did? The comparison is facile, Osamas death is nothing like the surrender of japan.

Agreed. If people want a comparable event, then the assassination of Admiral Yamamoto by the U.S. would fit better.

Forget it Sebster. I'm not going to go 12 rounds with all of you here on Dakka Dakka. I gave you a few documented (there are plenty more) statements of his death. They weren't speculation, they were news stories. In the case of Pakistan, you had the head of a major government involved in that area stating he was dead. There are plenty more like that, including from CIA sources.

Obviously, no man dies multiple times. So they can't all be accurate. But, by the same token, when's the last time you read multiple accounts of any major figure's death? It's bizarre.


I'm not going to defend anything to you just for argument's sake. There's no purpose for it, as you don't really want to look at the information anyhow. But don't pin this gak on me- I simply pointed out that there are plenty of other reports before todays, and given my knowledge of people in the "company", this looks and smells like a "company production". The end result is still f-ing GRAVY and GREAT NEWS.

The sad truth is people like you want to shout people like me down as tinfoil hat kind of people, despite a tremendous amount of documentation of the actions our intelligence agencies engage in , day after day, year after year, for decades on end. I'm not against their actions either, because they seem to be keeping us safe. But it's not a clean world, by any definition of the word.

Do yourselves a favor, and read "Legacy of Ashes". it won the Pulitzer Prize (is that mainstream enough for you guys?) and it is the 1st "On the Record" history of the CIA, from interviews and recently declassified documents. It will spin your head around with how extreme and crazy the stuff they've done is. Stuff so crazy, that people like you would claim I was a nutcase if I stated it years ago, because it is so extreme as to beg credibility. The lie so big that nobody questions it, so to speak. A lot of those kinds of actions are now documented and on the record. I'll also point out, that some of it was so extreme and big and done at the beginning of the agency. One can only wonder what they do now... what they are capable of.

In any event, You want to enjoy the mainstream narrative? Enjoy it. Either way the dude is dead (really this time, it seems) so there's plenty of cause for celebration.

Monster Rain wrote:

Skulls for the skull throne!

Thank you for my new wallpaper.

:::cues Team America theme:::


I want to thank the military guys who pulled this off, you have done a service to the world; well done.

I don't think anyone should celebrate the death of others, but monster like Bin Laden cannot be allowed to live.

So now that Osama is dead, who gets the ruby slippers?

Iono, but god I wish I went ot uni in NYC or D.C. right now.