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Crimson Devil wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:We lost more people to the japanese and germans. How did Osama kill them more then hitler did? The comparison is facile, Osamas death is nothing like the surrender of japan.

Agreed. If people want a comparable event, then the assassination of Admiral Yamamoto by the U.S. would fit better.

The death of Admiral Yamamoto was a great psychological toll on the Japanese. It did inspire the morale of the Americans and made Japan realize America was capable of fighting even after losing so much after Pearl Harbor.

We will have to see what else comes of Osama Bin Laden's death other than the emotional outpour wrought by his death. However, do mark May 1st, 2011 as DOOD (Death of Osama Day).

I don't think anyone should be celebrating anyone's death, even Bin Laden's. Sure, a man who did horrible things is dead, but it's not going to bring back any of the people who's deaths he's responsible for. It doesn't suddenly make it any better.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_bin_laden_warn

US warns of anti-American violence after bin Laden
AP

MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Matthew Lee, Associated Press – 24 mins ago

WASHINGTON – The State Department early Monday put U.S. embassies on alert and warned of the heightened possibility for anti-American violence after the killing of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden by American forces in Pakistan.

In a worldwide travel alert released shortly after President Barack Obama late Sunday announced bin Laden's death in a U.S. military operation, the department said there was an "enhanced potential for anti-American violence given recent counterterrorism activity in Pakistan."

"Given the uncertainty and volatility of the current situation, U.S. citizens in areas where recent events could cause anti-American violence are strongly urged to limit their travel outside of their homes and hotels and avoid mass gatherings and demonstrations," it said.

The alert said U.S. embassy operations would continue "to the extent possible under the constraints of any evolving security situation." It noted that embassies and consulates may temporarily close or suspend public services, depending on conditions.

LittleLeadMen wrote:it's not MY conspiracy. I'm simply pointing out that he has been reported dead, by a variety of sources, including the head of Pakistan, multiple times over the last decade.

Yes, you're "just asking questions".

Bin Laden was no longer the brains of Al Qaeda, nor the mastermind behind Al Qaeda, but he was the heart of Al Qaeda. As Al Qaeda's most famous member he was a vital tool for both recruiting and fund raising. Terrorism like all other human endeavors is dependent on resources and manpower, and loosing some of their ability to recruit and/or raise funds is a severe blow.

SEALs

Al Qaeda has now issued a fatwā declaring Mark Zuckerberg as the "Great Satan", and I hate to say this but for the first time to a small degree I have to agree with them....

Now on a more serious note: Can we feed Bin Laden's body to the pigs?

WarOne wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:We lost more people to the japanese and germans. How did Osama kill them more then hitler did? The comparison is facile, Osamas death is nothing like the surrender of japan.

Agreed. If people want a comparable event, then the assassination of Admiral Yamamoto by the U.S. would fit better.

The death of Admiral Yamamoto was a great psychological toll on the Japanese. It did inspire the morale of the Americans and made Japan realize America was capable of fighting even after losing so much after Pearl Harbor.

We will have to see what else comes of Osama Bin Laden's death other than the emotional outpour wrought by his death. However, do mark May 1st, 2011 as DOOD [u](Death of Obama Day)[/u].

Please, please check your spelling.

R.I.P. Bin Laden

I do not condone his actions however as one who loves and reads up on wars and tyrants of all kinds I must say I have to respect a man who brought a nation to its knees single handed, specially one as powerful as the U.S.A. and I repeat for those who are selective readers, I do not condone his actions however respect the idea of an individual who had the ability to bring a nation down single handed. Much like Hitler whose military prowess (pre-1942) was insane, I do not condone his actions however respect his intelligence. I am not trying to offend anyone here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fafnir wrote:I don't think anyone should be celebrating anyone's death, even Bin Laden's. Sure, a man who did horrible things is dead, but it's not going to bring back any of the people who's deaths he's responsible for. It doesn't suddenly make it any better.

I agree with this, however I think it is the ideal that they believe dead and what he represented that they celebrate and not the individual.

Happydude, I disagree with your assessment of OBL.

Edited to remain polite, even when confronted with... well... I better not say.

Then why say rest in peace?

Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

schadenfreude wrote:Bin Laden was no longer the brains of Al Qaeda, nor the mastermind behind Al Qaeda, but he was the heart of Al Qaeda. As Al Qaeda's most famous member he was a vital tool for both recruiting and fund raising. Terrorism like all other human endeavors is dependent on resources and manpower, and loosing some of their ability to recruit and/or raise funds is a severe blow.

"Al Quaeda" is somewhere between what is effectively a brand name franchise and a "someone did/might have done something, we need a name to put on it" bogeyman (like Carlos the Jackal). Remember Qaddafi blaming the revolution on Al Quaeda agents giving LSD to kids? That's pretty much all the name is used for now.

Sir P, I think that's a bit more cynical than I'm prepared to be. Al Q is closer to the "brand name franchise" as far as I can tell. They've had an existence since the USSR's efforts in Afghanistan. And while I think some parties have exaggerated their actions/threat, that doesn't mean they're not real people, doing actual terrible things.

Mannahnin wrote:Sir P, I think that's a bit more cynical than I'm prepared to be. Al Q is closer to the "brand name franchise" as far as I can tell. They've had an existence since the USSR's efforts in Afghanistan. And while I think some parties have exaggerated their actions/threat, that doesn't mean they're not real people, doing actual terrible things.

As an organization they are incredibly distributed and they totally lack any sort of C&C infrastructure or set if truly unifying principles. It's fairly unique in that regard.

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything single handed.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America. And yes, his organization (Although I believe otherwise) apparently infiltrated the USA and for some time panic and chaos ensued, with ridiculous security counter measures now in place and an America now changed forever. He had a tremendous impact which sucks but it is very true.

happydude wrote:R.I.P. Bin Laden

I do not condone his actions however as one who loves and reads up on wars and tyrants of all kinds I must say I have to respect a man who brought a nation to its knees single handed, specially one as powerful as the U.S.A. and I repeat for those who are selective readers, I do not condone his actions however respect the idea of an individual who had the ability to bring a nation down single handed. Much like Hitler whose military prowess (pre-1942) was insane, I do not condone his actions however respect his intelligence. I am not trying to offend anyone here.

I'll avoid Osama, but I'll correct you on Hitler.

Hitler wasn't a military genius. Hitler was a charismatic idiot who managed to get himself into power. If you have any respect for Hitler, have respect for his powess and charisma as a politician. His ability to enthrall an entire nation into following him all the way tot he bitter end.

If you want to respect Nazi Germany's military prowess respect Guderian, Rommel, Dönitz. You can respect Albert Speer for keeping Germany's economy working for the war years, and I do respect those men for that. Don't dishonor their contributions by attributing their victories to Hitler.

Edit:

You don't have the right to speak free of prejudice. We can't stop you from speaking, but we can form our own opinions of you based on your speech.

happydude wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America.

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to the internet. This isn't a public space.

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America.

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to the internet. This isn't a public space.

Not a public... are you for real?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisWWII wrote:

happydude wrote:R.I.P. Bin Laden

I do not condone his actions however as one who loves and reads up on wars and tyrants of all kinds I must say I have to respect a man who brought a nation to its knees single handed, specially one as powerful as the U.S.A. and I repeat for those who are selective readers, I do not condone his actions however respect the idea of an individual who had the ability to bring a nation down single handed. Much like Hitler whose military prowess (pre-1942) was insane, I do not condone his actions however respect his intelligence. I am not trying to offend anyone here.

I'll avoid Osama, but I'll correct you on Hitler.

Hitler wasn't a military genius. Hitler was a charismatic idiot who managed to get himself into power. If you have any respect for Hitler, have respect for his powess and charisma as a politician. His ability to enthrall an entire nation into following him all the way tot he bitter end.

If you want to respect Nazi Germany's military prowess respect Guderian, Rommel, Dönitz. You can respect Albert Speer for keeping Germany's economy working for the war years, and I do respect those men for that. Don't dishonor their contributions by attributing their victories to Hitler.

Edit:

You don't have the right to speak free of prejudice. We can't stop you from speaking, but we can form our own opinions of you based on your speech.

Not genius, prowess, synonymous with daring. The courage and genius do actually lie with those aforementioned men.

happydude wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America.

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to the internet. This isn't a public space.

Not a public... are you for real?

Yes. Freedom of speech protects you from governmental censorship, not rules set within private space. This is dakkdakka.com. Not "the internet". The administrators and site owners have control here and their laws supersede freedom of speech. They can disallow you for essentially whatever they wish.

Drop the ideological load, learn the laws and rules as they actually exist.

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America.

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to the internet. This isn't a public space.

Not a public... are you for real?

Yes. Freedom of speech protects you from governmental censorship, not rules set within private space. This is dakkdakka.com. Not "the internet". The administrators and site owners have control here and their laws supersede freedom of speech. They can disallow you for essentially whatever they wish.

Drop the ideological load, learn the laws and rules as they actually exist.

I understand how those attacks and what that man represented and I know although it has been some time some wounds are still fresh. My apologies my brothers to the south.

Shuma is correct. DakkaDakka is a private organization, and they have the right to censor your speech if they so please. If you were in my house, I'd have the similar right to demand you stop speaking, or get out, and I wouldn't be violating your freedom of speech.

You can stand outside my house on a public street shouting whatever you want, but not inside it.

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America.

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to the internet. This isn't a public space.

Not a public... are you for real?

Yes. Freedom of speech protects you from governmental censorship, not rules set within private space. This is dakkdakka.com. Not "the internet". The administrators and site owners have control here and their laws supersede freedom of speech. They can disallow you for essentially whatever they wish.

Drop the ideological load, learn the laws and rules as they actually exist.

And shuma please attempt to refrain from being rude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisWWII wrote:Shuma is correct. DakkaDakka is a private organization, and they have the right to censor your speech if they so please. If you were in my house, I'd have the similar right to demand you stop speaking, or get out, and I wouldn't be violating your freedom of speech.

You can stand outside my house on a public street shouting whatever you want, but not inside it.

After what I wrote there is not one American here who is not ready to leap all over this and attack so I'll leave it be, I would rather not get into this silliness over the internet.

I think that if you knew the amount of "refraining from breing rude" that was going on you'd be quite shocked.

happydude wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

happydude wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Happydude, it will be a monument to the tolerance and goodwill of Dakka members if your post does not draw flames.

NSFW relevant article:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

He didn't bring a nation to its knees, nor did he do anything singlehanded.

By your very constitution am I allowed to voice my opinion without fear of prejudice. One of the benefits of living in N.America.

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to the internet. This isn't a public space.

Not a public... are you for real?

Yes. Freedom of speech protects you from governmental censorship, not rules set within private space. This is dakkdakka.com. Not "the internet". The administrators and site owners have control here and their laws supersede freedom of speech. They can disallow you for essentially whatever they wish.

Drop the ideological load, learn the laws and rules as they actually exist.

And shuma please attempt to refrain from being rude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisWWII wrote:Shuma is correct. DakkaDakka is a private organization, and they have the right to censor your speech if they so please. If you were in my house, I'd have the similar right to demand you stop speaking, or get out, and I wouldn't be violating your freedom of speech.

You can stand outside my house on a public street shouting whatever you want, but not inside it.

After what I wrote there is not one American here who is not ready to leap all over this and attack so I'll leave it be, I would rather not get into this silliness over the internet.

I don't care about what you said. I care about people who are ignorant of what "freedom of speech" is.

I regarded this as a public forum. I forgot how things work around here.

happydude wrote:

I regarded this as a public forum. I forgot how things work around here.

Thats why you don't see much porn. Also, "Public" forums can't really be created by private citizens. That would involve a totally public ISP functioning globally.

happydude wrote:R.I.P. Bin Laden

I do not condone his actions however as one who loves and reads up on wars and tyrants of all kinds I must say I have to respect a man who brought a nation to its knees single handed, specially one as powerful as the U.S.A. and I repeat for those who are selective readers, I do not condone his actions however respect the idea of an individual who had the ability to bring a nation down single handed. Much like Hitler whose military prowess (pre-1942) was insane, I do not condone his actions however respect his intelligence. I am not trying to offend anyone here.

You're greatly exaggerating both their accomplishments there. He bloodied our nose and gave a bunch of opportunists something scary with which to rally votes for themselves and pet projects related to security theater, from which they embezzled money while gutting actual security. Hitler was a buffoon who sabotaged his own war effort at every turn.

Mannahnin wrote:Sir P, I think that's a bit more cynical than I'm prepared to be. Al Q is closer to the "brand name franchise" as far as I can tell. They've had an existence since the USSR's efforts in Afghanistan. And while I think some parties have exaggerated their actions/threat, that doesn't mean they're not real people, doing actual terrible things.

I should have qualified it with an "at this point". It's a banner that gets taken up by organizations with no link to the actual/original organization, who may or may not actually accomplish anything (note that even without backing or contacts, a bunch of angry people with access to weapons can still do a great deal of damage, even when they're nothing more than the local equivalent of street gangs), as well as serving as a convenient buzzword for "terrorist/insurgent" for people who either want to portray the disparate groups of assorted militants as a monolithic structure, genuinely don't understand they're not, knows the people they're talking to don't, or wants some shadowy bogeyman to slander their political opponents with. That's not to say there's not probably some of the old network still left, but being relentlessly hounded and taken apart at every level by every intelligence agency on Earth tends to pretty bad things to one's ability to operate.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

happydude wrote:R.I.P. Bin Laden

I do not condone his actions however as one who loves and reads up on wars and tyrants of all kinds I must say I have to respect a man who brought a nation to its knees single handed, specially one as powerful as the U.S.A. and I repeat for those who are selective readers, I do not condone his actions however respect the idea of an individual who had the ability to bring a nation down single handed. Much like Hitler whose military prowess (pre-1942) was insane, I do not condone his actions however respect his intelligence. I am not trying to offend anyone here.

You're greatly exaggerating both their accomplishments there. He bloodied our nose and gave a bunch of opportunists something scary with which to rally votes for themselves and pet projects related to security theater, from which they embezzled money while gutting actual security. Hitler was a buffoon who sabotaged his own war effort at every turn.

Mannahnin wrote:Sir P, I think that's a bit more cynical than I'm prepared to be. Al Q is closer to the "brand name franchise" as far as I can tell. They've had an existence since the USSR's efforts in Afghanistan. And while I think some parties have exaggerated their actions/threat, that doesn't mean they're not real people, doing actual terrible things.

I should have qualified it with an "at this point". It's a banner that gets taken up by organizations with no link to the actual/original organization, who may or may not actually accomplish anything (note that even without backing or contacts, a bunch of angry people with access to weapons can still do a great deal of damage, even when they're nothing more than the local equivalent of street gangs), as well as serving as a convenient buzzword for "terrorist/insurgent" for people who either want to portray the disparate groups of assorted militants as a monolithic structure, genuinely don't understand they're not, knows the people they're talking to don't, or wants some shadowy bogeyman to slander their political opponents with. That's not to say there's not probably some of the old network still left, but being relentlessly hounded and taken apart at every level by every intelligence agency on Earth tends to pretty bad things to one's ability to operate.

A buffoon? He brought 60+ million Germans OUT of the Great Depression within 6 Months of his Election, with Flying Colors, and put every Unemployed Person to Work, and still needed more Workers, who Built up and Supervised one of the the Greatest Armies who ever Fought, who Conquered more Nations in less Time with less Loss of Lives than any other Leader who ever Lived during all of Modern History, who still holds those Records until this very Day.