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Okay, but the human race developed psykers way before the Tau did, developmentally speaking. They weren't out in the open as such, but humans did have them. And while I concede that the pheremones thing isn't officially out as the truth, it is widely accepted as such. Even if it isn't the case, the control that the Ethereals exert over the rest of the culture goes far beyond persuasive speech and into something a little more nefarious.

Same. Whereas it's not officially cannon, it's hinted about a lot. I couldn't care less whose viewpoint it came from, obviously the Tau, being brain-washed and controlled, wouldn't say it themselves.

Jimsolo wrote:The warp requires sentience to affect it. Which is why animals don't go around worshipping Khorne and casting Vortices of Doom.

Unfortunetly there is a little problem with this, there are fluff examples of animals being able to use the warp.

I would also like to point out that not only is the pheromone thing not canon, it is also nonsensical.

If their loyalty were based solely on pheromones, the why do they become enreged when an Ethereal dies and seek to avenge him? Their loyalty extends even to dead Auns, which favours my POV.

Also, There are comparatively few Ethereals relative to the other caste, so unless they are constantly with a few feet of an ethereal, the pheromone point is moot.

Also, people are like "But when Farsight's/R'ymyr's ethereals died, they went crazy and left the empire". But think about the overwhelming grief of losing a loved one. Now imagine if you were a Christian Zealot and that were the pope. That would be unimaginably horrible for the individual, as well as suddenly have to deal with complete command. Plus Farsight was already Bat gak crazy. TRAINING TAU FOR MELEE IS POINTLESS!


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BluntmanDC wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:The warp requires sentience to affect it. Which is why animals don't go around worshipping Khorne and casting Vortices of Doom.

Unfortunetly there is a little problem with this, there are fluff examples of animals being able to use the warp.

I.E. the great beasts of Caliban.


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Jimsolo wrote:Okay, but the human race developed psykers way before the Tau did, developmentally speaking. They weren't out in the open as such, but humans did have them. And while I concede that the pheremones thing isn't officially out as the truth, it is widely accepted as such. Even if it isn't the case, the control that the Ethereals exert over the rest of the culture goes far beyond persuasive speech and into something a little more nefarious.

It is more religious devotion.

It makes fine enough sense, as it's hinted at. Obviously any possible Pheromone control wouldn't be the only thing that keeps the Tau together, The Greater Good is a fine enough Ideology, even if the Tau are basically brain-washed from birth to believe in it.
The Great Beasts didn't actually use The Warp; they were spawned of it or mutated by it, but the point that animals don't use the Warp is true, unless you can give an example of an ANIMAL using the it's powers consciously.

I never said the pheremones alone kept the Tau together as a culture. I think that some kind of mental control (pheremonal being the strongest possibility) is going on. There are all kinds of ways to exert mind control, including indoctrination, hypnosis, brainwashing, drugs, genetic manipulation, and a score of others. And I am sure the Ethereal caste uses many, and maybe all of them.

2random, it seems like you are a real fan of the Tau, and I don't want you to think I'm attacking you or your guys. In point of fact, I love the Tau. I think they are one of the more sinister forces in the 40k universe, because the keep their evil hidden. In 40k, there are no good guys. The Tau are just better at hiding it. I also think that the miraculous appearance and influence of the Ethereals hints at a far more malevolent reason for their unnatural control over the Tau society.

Either way, there isn't an official answer in canon, and your opinion is certainly as likely as mine. I think mine fits better into the world of 40k as I see it. There's no reason someone else couldn't see it a different way.



And as a side note, I A) don't recall the beasts of Caliban using the Warp as much as they were altered by it. Although it's been a while since I read that book, B) I also think there was more than a little evidence that the beasts of Caliban may have had some kind of alien sentience. I'm not saying that such examples don't exist, just that I don't know them off the top of my head.

The origins of The Beasts are never revealed. Throughout the book there are several hints towards a connection with The Warp, and they certainly have some form of sentience, although it's only motivations were stated as being "to kill", with nothing else in their eyes other than an implacable drive to kill those it encounters.

Well an example of chaos animals is after the first Tau vs. Slaaneshi daemon war, the kroot were eating the dead, as were the kroot hounds. The carnivores/hounds ended up eating dead daemonettes and being corrupted by chaos=chaos kroot doggies.

iproxtaco wrote:It makes fine enough sense, as it's hinted at. Obviously any possible Pheromone control wouldn't be the only thing that keeps the Tau together, The Greater Good is a fine enough Ideology, even if the Tau are basically brain-washed from birth to believe in it.
The Great Beasts didn't actually use The Warp; they were spawned of it or mutated by it, but the point that animals don't use the Warp is true, unless you can give an example of an ANIMAL using the it's powers consciously.

Chapter Approved, creature feature: described a pack reptilian alien that travelled from world to world using the warp. They would hit up a world and become the dominant species, eat, breed and then leave to the next.

im2randomghgh wrote:Well an example of chaos animals is after the first Tau vs. Slaaneshi daemon war, the kroot were eating the dead, as were the kroot hounds. The carnivores/hounds ended up eating dead daemonettes and being corrupted by chaos=chaos kroot doggies.

A chaos animal is different from an animal using the Warp. The Kroothounds were corrupted by an outside force, they don't use The Warp. But, Bluntman DC has provided, although there are no examples of animals choosing Chaos, unless, again, someone can provide.

I just think that GW is keeping other races from playable chaos is because the human vs. human aspect adds to the rivalry and it mixes things up from the human vs. alien

Jimsolo wrote:And while I concede that the pheremones thing isn't officially out as the truth, it is widely accepted as such.

It is also widely accepted that Tau are fish-cow nazi-commies led by a pope, loving peace and genocides. Even if all that is nonsense.

And an Imperial observer, looking at the relatively peaceful Canadian society next to the quite violent US society, would certainly recommend tin foil hats and suspect Stephen Harper to emit some strong pheromone

There's a difference between something hinted in the Tau's own codex, as in, it's there in writing, and weird internet hyperbole. I don't believe they are, they aren't fish, they could be bovine in origin, they are a mix of different government forms including Oligarchical, and are lead by a semi-religious figure-head, offering species they encounter with a choice of peaceful subjugation before force is used, which they definitely are afraid to use.

No psychic presence of any kind. The whole species are what amounts to blanks (minus the power-nullifying aspect).


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bocirish wrote:I could be wrong but I thought there was some hinting that commander Farsights sword was a daemonblade corrupting him and thats why he turned away from the etherials and takes a more aggressive stance in war.

Actually, from what I recall, his aggressive nature is based on the fact that all the Ethereals died and thus couldn't exert their pheromone mind-control over him anymore. We have objective evidence of this from the dissection of an Ethereal in Xenology.

Omegus wrote:No psychic presence of any kind. The whole species are what amounts to blanks (minus the power-nullifying aspect).

This is incorrect.

Tau do have a presence in the warp, it is just tiny when compared to humans. You also can't have a blank without the effects they have, an entire race of blanks would make the Tau far more dangerous.

Deathwatch: Mark of the Xenos has a little blurb in the Pathfinder section about the Tau's psychic presence wherein a Librarian talks about how the Tau minds "feel muted"

its more like they have as little soul as you can have without being a true blank.



I kinda like the Animal parallel. it doesn't completely work because there are animals who have warp powers(although these beasts tend to have been heavily exposed to chaos and might be an exception), but it can explain why the Tau appear to have little warp presense.


The tau do seem to have few emotions, which is the real source of warp presenses. perhaps because they are close to emotionless they have little signiture. The Eldar would continue to have bright signitures, dispite their self-denial, because of their psychic powers. and perhaps their lights are incredibly dim compared to what they were.

BluntmanDC wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:It makes fine enough sense, as it's hinted at. Obviously any possible Pheromone control wouldn't be the only thing that keeps the Tau together, The Greater Good is a fine enough Ideology, even if the Tau are basically brain-washed from birth to believe in it.
The Great Beasts didn't actually use The Warp; they were spawned of it or mutated by it, but the point that animals don't use the Warp is true, unless you can give an example of an ANIMAL using the it's powers consciously.

Chapter Approved, creature feature: described a pack reptilian alien that travelled from world to world using the warp. They would hit up a world and become the dominant species, eat, breed and then leave to the next.

Also Psychneunin and Enslavers.

Is it because they are incorrupTAUble?

Apologies
Will crawl away and hide in the cupboard for shame.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is it because they are incorrupTAUble?

Apologies
Will crawl away and hide in the cupboard for shame.

I'd smack you but your kitten avatar is so awesome that your pun became funny. lol.

Isn't it because they have their beliefs in the Greater good?

After reading A Thousand Sons but two days ago, I can't understand why I forgot the Psychneuein.


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Kravox wrote:Isn't it because they have their beliefs in the Greater good?

No. Humans believe in The Emperor, and are still able to be corrupted. It's the Warp Signature they have. Tau have a very small signature, so are generally harder to corrupt than humans or Eldar. Having a strong belief in your Ideology helps a lot though.

iproxtaco wrote:After reading A Thousand Sons but two days ago, I can't understand why I forgot the Psychneuein.


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Kravox wrote:Isn't it because they have their beliefs in the Greater good?

No. Humans believe in The Emperor, and are still able to be corrupted. It's the Warp Signature they have. Tau have a very small signature, so are generally harder to corrupt than humans or Eldar. Having a strong belief in your Ideology helps a lot though.

As to belief in the Emperor, it is hardly as if every single Imperial Soul is a zealot worthy of Chaplainhood. And their beliefs are shaken pretty quick in the presence of Chaos (for the most part).

Tau belief is universal and single minded, so that does help a LOT (see: plague of unbelief).

You all know that there is a chance for Tau to be more suitable to Chaos in new codex?

Because M.W. will be writing it...probability for that is 90%.
I will say nothing until I see it, and read it.

Brother Coa wrote:You all know that there is a chance for Tau to be more suitable to Chaos in new codex?

Because M.W. will be writing it...probability for that is 90%.
I will say nothing until I see it, and read it.

Me and Wady gonna tear some s**t up!

Brother Coa wrote:You all know that there is a chance for Tau to be more suitable to Chaos in new codex?

Because M.W. will be writing it...probability for that is 90%.
I will say nothing until I see it, and read it.

There is also a chance for Tau to outnumber the IoM in the next codex. It is basically a blank slate that can be used in anyway the author wants. Hell, we could end up with melee-awesome Tau (unlikely as it is)

Maniac_nmt wrote:I can't remember if it was 3rd or 4th ed Tau codex, but I believe it's alluded that Farsight's ethereal was killed. He also never turns on Tau, and doesn't actively purpsue corruption or challenges to them. It's pretty explicit that he's seen the galaxy, and is ardently hunting the enemies of Tau. Which, if he were fallen to Chaos the typical MO would be to muck about with his fellow Tau (which he seems to be ardently opposed to).

Ethereals don't have god like mind control. They can be resisted and ignored. In fact, until Shadowsun blows up Farsight's statue there appeared to be a possible rebellion against the ethereals brewing (and some of the Fire caste are still not happy with her or the abandonment of Farsight). Rather you could see them as highly revered leaders. They can be disobeyed, but it's highly unlikely as the culture and mindset has bread the Tau to see them as saviours.

I actually really rather like that Tau aren't susceptible to Chaos. It makes them different in 40k.

This.

Also, it seems to me that farsight is not "turning his back" or corrupted....he just decided that a region of space needed defending.
Maybe the ethereals don't want him there for some reason...who knows. Also, Xeneology is an excellent book....has lots of great stuff on the tau (and every other race).

Dave Pak

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:You all know that there is a chance for Tau to be more suitable to Chaos in new codex?

Because M.W. will be writing it...probability for that is 90%.
I will say nothing until I see it, and read it.

There is also a chance for Tau to outnumber the IoM in the next codex. It is basically a blank slate that can be used in anyway the author wants. Hell, we could end up with melee-awesome Tau (unlikely as it is)

Or maybe it will have something like Kroot eating Tau flesh
Or Tau starting to question their Etherials...that would be great

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:After reading A Thousand Sons but two days ago, I can't understand why I forgot the Psychneuein.


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Kravox wrote:Isn't it because they have their beliefs in the Greater good?

No. Humans believe in The Emperor, and are still able to be corrupted. It's the Warp Signature they have. Tau have a very small signature, so are generally harder to corrupt than humans or Eldar. Having a strong belief in your Ideology helps a lot though.

As to belief in the Emperor, it is hardly as if every single Imperial Soul is a zealot worthy of Chaplainhood. And their beliefs are shaken pretty quick in the presence of Chaos (for the most part).

Tau belief is universal and single minded, so that does help a LOT (see: plague of unbelief).

Tau aren't zealots either. The majority of humans believe in The Emperor and look to him as their savior, it inspires people even more than The Greater Good, but it's not as indoctrinated into them as hard. The Tau's faith hasn't been tested in the face of Chaos yet.

I bet that even if the tau could use psychers theyd be all "its uncivilized"