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Larotonda1984 wrote: but if it's before any CC blows have been struck and it's not a CC attack, how, does it continue to attack every turn. (Even on the opponents turn)

Because it is a psychic power that can be cast on every turn. It only happens if the Purifiers choose to use their one psychic power/turn on Cleansing Flame.

Just thought about this and decided to look it up in the BRB

If its not a close combat attack then it must be a shooting attack right? I mean those are the only two attacks in the game right?

Pg. 50 Rulebook

Psychic shooting attacks

Psychic powers that take the form of shooting attacks are very common. Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon (an assault weapon unless specified otherwise). So, for example, the psyker must be able see his target unit, cannot be locked in combat, or must not have run in the Shooting phase if he wishes to use a psychic shooting attack.

So we know its definitely not a shooting attack

Actually, it doesn't have to be either type of attack.

DoM for example, does wounds to enemy units in range, but it doesn't count as a cc attack or a shooting attack, despite being able to claim cover saves from it.

Kinda weird

Can DoM be used if locked in close combat?

It means nothing else but a psychic ability. SAY all you want, but it is NEITHER A SHOOTING OR A CC Attack.

It is just a psychic ability used before ANY blows are struck IN CC. Yes, even in opponent's turn. IT IS VERY SPECIFIC.

If you choose to use it, before any blows are struck.

Word for word. If I am in CC with you even in your phase/ turn, I have by the POWER OF RAW, to declare to use the cleansing flame power before any blows are struck as outline by the CODEX Grey Knights rule, (This power can be used during the Assualt phase in either player's turn, after assualt moves have been made, but before any blows are struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assualt suffer one wound on the roll 4+. Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pray tell, where does it say it is a shooting or CC attack? WHERE? WHERE? Point it out. The rule is straight forward as it is. It is a psychic power used before CC. If you have no armour saves, tough luck. If your invulnarable is triggered by CC, than tough luck too because CODEX Grey Knight is also very specific of the saves you get. (Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power used by purifiers. NOT CC or shooting. Get over it.

Can DoM be used if locked in close combat?

Yep, it always goes off at the starting of each shooting phase (including the enemy's) no matter what, and it doesn't count as his shooting attack

wallacethe5 wrote:It means nothing else but a psychic ability. SAY all you want, but it is NEITHER A SHOOTING OR A CC Attack.

It is just a psychic ability used before ANY blows are struck IN CC. Yes, even in opponent's turn. IT IS VERY SPECIFIC.

If you choose to use it, before any blows are struck.

Word for word. If I am in CC with you even in your phase/ turn, I have by the POWER OF RAW, to declare to use the cleansing flame power before any blows are struck as outline by the CODEX Grey Knights rule, (This power can be used during the Assualt phase in either player's turn, after assualt moves have been made, but before any blows are struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assualt suffer one wound on the roll 4+. Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pray tell, where does it say it is a shooting or CC attack? WHERE? WHERE? Point it out. The rule is straight forward as it is. It is a psychic power used before CC. If you have no armour saves, tough luck. If your invulnarable is triggered by CC, than tough luck too because CODEX Grey Knight is also very specific of the saves you get. (Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power used by purifiers. NOT CC or shooting. Get over it.

Get over it? Wow... really?

No need to be rude

If you read back through this whole thread I'm on the fence about this whole issue I'm just trying to bring something to the table on the argument. And obviously its not clearly written if there is this much debate on the rule no matter how clear it is to you.

I'm still waiting for some kind of FAQ on this.

Aglobalthreat wrote:

wallacethe5 wrote:It means nothing else but a psychic ability. SAY all you want, but it is NEITHER A SHOOTING OR A CC Attack.

It is just a psychic ability used before ANY blows are struck IN CC. Yes, even in opponent's turn. IT IS VERY SPECIFIC.

If you choose to use it, before any blows are struck.

Word for word. If I am in CC with you even in your phase/ turn, I have by the POWER OF RAW, to declare to use the cleansing flame power before any blows are struck as outline by the CODEX Grey Knights rule, (This power can be used during the Assualt phase in either player's turn, after assualt moves have been made, but before any blows are struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assualt suffer one wound on the roll 4+. Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pray tell, where does it say it is a shooting or CC attack? WHERE? WHERE? Point it out. The rule is straight forward as it is. It is a psychic power used before CC. If you have no armour saves, tough luck. If your invulnarable is triggered by CC, than tough luck too because CODEX Grey Knight is also very specific of the saves you get. (Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power used by purifiers. NOT CC or shooting. Get over it.

Get over it? Wow... really?

No need to be rude

If you read back through this whole thread I'm on the fence about this whole issue I'm just trying to bring something to the table on the argument. And obviously its not clearly written if there is this much debate on the rule no matter how clear it is to you.

I'm still waiting for some kind of FAQ on this.

What would you like FAQ'd exactly? What part isn't clear to you? I would be glad to requote the entire power which as much as you dont think so is in fact clearly written. So far you've grasped at straws trying to prove a way that CC inv saves would apply but again the glaring and indefinate RAW rule points out you are wrong. The biggest sentence in the entire rule is "UNSAVED wound caused by this power count as CC attacks for all purposes." Nowhere in the entire powers rules prior to then is the words CC attacks mentioned. It's not labeled as a psychic shooting attack so it's not. The power when used to cause wounds is not labeled as a CC attack so it's not. It is a psychic power. If a rule isn't present why do you feel the right to just add it in there to benefit yourself?

The wyches CC inv save clearly states wounds caused by CC attacks. Cleansing glame clearly states UNSAVED wounds are CC attacks. You dont get 2 saves so again Im not understanding why you're on the fence. It is sounding more and more like you are just stubborn and dont like it moreso than you think it needs a FAQ.

I would say they dont get the inv save.

from both the wording of both the power and the special rule.

cleansing flame : is a psychic power with no type, but a special rule that "unsaved" wounds count for combat res.
wych dodge : 4+ inv against close combat attacks.

cleansing flame occurs in the assault phase, but follows none of the rules for close combat.

veidin wrote:

Aglobalthreat wrote:

wallacethe5 wrote:It means nothing else but a psychic ability. SAY all you want, but it is NEITHER A SHOOTING OR A CC Attack.

It is just a psychic ability used before ANY blows are struck IN CC. Yes, even in opponent's turn. IT IS VERY SPECIFIC.

If you choose to use it, before any blows are struck.

Word for word. If I am in CC with you even in your phase/ turn, I have by the POWER OF RAW, to declare to use the cleansing flame power before any blows are struck as outline by the CODEX Grey Knights rule, (This power can be used during the Assualt phase in either player's turn, after assualt moves have been made, but before any blows are struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assualt suffer one wound on the roll 4+. Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pray tell, where does it say it is a shooting or CC attack? WHERE? WHERE? Point it out. The rule is straight forward as it is. It is a psychic power used before CC. If you have no armour saves, tough luck. If your invulnarable is triggered by CC, than tough luck too because CODEX Grey Knight is also very specific of the saves you get. (Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power used by purifiers. NOT CC or shooting. Get over it.

Get over it? Wow... really?

No need to be rude

If you read back through this whole thread I'm on the fence about this whole issue I'm just trying to bring something to the table on the argument. And obviously its not clearly written if there is this much debate on the rule no matter how clear it is to you.

I'm still waiting for some kind of FAQ on this.

What would you like FAQ'd exactly? What part isn't clear to you? I would be glad to requote the entire power which as much as you dont think so is in fact clearly written. So far you've grasped at straws trying to prove a way that CC inv saves would apply but again the glaring and indefinate RAW rule points out you are wrong. The biggest sentence in the entire rule is "UNSAVED wound caused by this power count as CC attacks for all purposes." Nowhere in the entire powers rules prior to then is the words CC attacks mentioned. It's not labeled as a psychic shooting attack so it's not. The power when used to cause wounds is not labeled as a CC attack so it's not. It is a psychic power. If a rule isn't present why do you feel the right to just add it in there to benefit yourself?

The wyches CC inv save clearly states wounds caused by CC attacks. Cleansing glame clearly states UNSAVED wounds are CC attacks. You dont get 2 saves so again Im not understanding why you're on the fence. It is sounding more and more like you are just stubborn and dont like it moreso than you think it needs a FAQ.

What rule did I add in for my benefit?

And its not being stubborn when the rule says counts as close combat for all purposes regardless of unsaved wounds or not I believe the "all" is pretty encompassing.

This post is supposed to be a debate on the rule not an attack on the poster throughout all my posts I have tried to contribute something towards this argument. I believe it needs to be FAQ'd now if the FAQ comes out and doesn't say anything about this then I will go along with them not getting the invul save. To me it seems as if all the people that are nerdraging like you over this in favor of it ignoring their invul save are GK players, I am a DE player and I'm accepting the fact that it could go both ways. Seems like a lot of fuss over a rule that really doesn't have that big of an effect on the game. Last time I checked Dark Eldar are still not a majority played army.

And since this post is up to 4 pages and there is a lot of debate I don't think I'm the only person that feels this way.

All unsaved wounds =/= all wounds caused.

Aglobalthreat wrote:
What rule did I add in for my benefit?

And its not being stubborn when the rule says counts as close combat for all purposes regardless of unsaved wounds or not I believe the "all" is pretty encompassing.

This post is supposed to be a debate on the rule not an attack on the poster throughout all my posts I have tried to contribute something towards this argument. I believe it needs to be FAQ'd now if the FAQ comes out and doesn't say anything about this then I will go along with them not getting the invul save. To me it seems as if all the people that are nerdraging like you over this in favor of it ignoring their invul save are GK players, I am a DE player and I'm accepting the fact that it could go both ways. Seems like a lot of fuss over a rule that really doesn't have that big of an effect on the game. Last time I checked Dark Eldar are still not a majority played army.

And since this post is up to 4 pages and there is a lot of debate I don't think I'm the only person that feels this way.

You are trying to claim that Cleansing Flame is a close combat attack therefor allowing CC Inv saves against it. That would be adding a rule to your benefit.

"And its not being stubborn when the rule says counts as close combat for all purposes regardless of unsaved wounds or not I believe the "all" is pretty encompassing."

You're right the "all" is pretty encompassing. Problem is you are picking apart a sentence and bending it to your benefit. The all encompassing close combat attacks dont even exist ANYWHERE in the rules until unsaved wounds are dealt. That is black and white text in the rules.

The only contribution I've seen is that you continue to say it needs a FAQ and you believe that CC inv saves or cover saves would apply, however, each time you are refutted. At this point you are holding up a blue pen and trying to argue that it's black. It's ironic you mention that the only people "raging" over this are GK players, when the only people arguing against it are DE players. I'm arguing with you, because throughout every post I've made I have pointed out quotes and rules to support my argument. Time and time again all you've stated is "I dont agree with it." "It needs a FAQ." "Im on the fence." Nowhere have you brought up rules to try and support your argument. You attempted to go the route of maybe getting a cover save due to the psychic power having to be either shooting or CC which was shot down. Otherwise you've given no other relevant information aside from your opinion.

This is a rule that has a big effect on the game. I would agree DE are not a majority player, but they are prevalent in many tournaments. I believe Adepticon was at 20+% I cant find the stupid pie chart thingy that showed all the armies, but Im pretty sure they broke 20% so 1 in 5 people were DE. Many lists are Wych heavy (not all but a lot) so this will absolutely have a big effect on the game on a tournament level.

This post is 4 pages long with very few people disagreeing that wyches do NOT get a CC inv save. At first many were for it until the knowledge of "unsaved wounds count as CC attacks for all purposes" was brought up. That single sentence makes it clear as day how this power should work.

Hmm nope pretty sure I quoted rules from codices and the rule book so I think that counts for more than "it needs a FAQ".

And you know what your right I guess it does have a big effect on the game it completely breaks Wyches for CC against Purifiers. Wyches aren't really good for anything but CC and I find it hard to believe that GW would want to ruin a unit that was just released. The only thing going for wyches is to get them into combat.

Oh and I've never said I believe they should get cover saves.

The bottom line is we disagree you sir in all your nerdrage are not going to change my mind, no matter how well you think you can articulate your posts and re word the same stuff you have been spewing over and over.

If you would actually read my posts I currently play wyches without the invul save against purifiers and will continue to do so. But I do believe it needs a FAQ and there is not a damn thing you can do or say to change my mind.

And the last thing the full rules from codex GK were quoted on the very first page of this thread about 8 posts in and there were people that have disagreed after that.

At first I would have assumed that they would get the invul save (and as a GK player thats not in my favor to say) but after reading through the forum and looking directly at both codex's I would say that wyches would not get their invul save.

the DE codex states they "have a 4+ invulnerable saving throw against wounds caused by close combat attacks."

and while the GK codex says "Unsaved wounds caused by Cleansing Flame are counted as having been caused in close combat for all purposes." so Cleansing Flame may occur in close combat, but it is still a psychic power, not a close combat attack.

besides you cant twirl and flip your way out of righteous fire, little elf. haha!

Aglobalthreat wrote:Hmm nope pretty sure I quoted rules from codices and the rule book so I think that counts for more than "it needs a FAQ".

And you know what your right I guess it does have a big effect on the game it completely breaks Wyches for CC against Purifiers. Wyches aren't really good for anything but CC and I find it hard to believe that GW would want to ruin a unit that was just released. The only thing going for wyches is to get them into combat.

Oh and I've never said I believe they should get cover saves.

The bottom line is we disagree you sir in all your nerdrage are not going to change my mind, no matter how well you think you can articulate your posts and re word the same stuff you have been spewing over and over.

If you would actually read my posts I currently play wyches without the invul save against purifiers and will continue to do so. But I do believe it needs a FAQ and there is not a damn thing you can do or say to change my mind.

And the last thing the full rules from codex GK were quoted on the very first page of this thread about 8 posts in and there were people that have disagreed after that.

Ruin a unit that was just released? Just so Im understanding things, you are upset that a SINGLE unit in the entirety of the GK codex has the ability to smack Wyches down? Really? How does this ruin a unit? Are you of the mind that Wyches are no longer useable because if you go against a Purifier spam army you may have to put more effort forth?

You didnt mention cover saves, I apologize I re-read through and that was another can of worms. Not you though so you are correct there.

I'm not sure where the nerdrage comments keep coming from considering we're both arguing about the same game and the same rules so if Im nerdraging, then by default you are as well. Either way the comment brings nothing to the argument so meh.

Im very sorry you disagree with a rule that is clearly written.

djdutton that has been the main point of everything in these 4 pages. The GK codex is very specific as to when and what about the power is when it comes to close combat attacks. Fluff wise you are correct it is righteous fire that consumes from the inside of the model. Nothing shoots out of the Purifiers or anything to dodge. However, fluff doesnt matter when it comes to rules so that's a moot point. :( In the end the rule is written as a psychic power that causes wounds which when unsaved become CC attacks counted towards combat resolution period.

This power can be used during the Assault phase in either player's turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of 4+. Armor saves can be taken as normal.

Seems pretty clear. Armor saves can be taken as normal. The Witch 4++ save is a special save that only happens in CC, not a normal save.

1st ever post btw, so please be gentle when crushing me in my noobness

Phiasco II wrote:This power can be used during the Assault phase in either player's turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of 4+. Armor saves can be taken as normal.

Seems pretty clear. Armor saves can be taken as normal. The Witch 4++ save is a special save that only happens in CC, not a normal save.

1st ever post btw, so please be gentle when crushing me in my noobness

Ok, I'll try being gentle. If something says "armor saves can be taken as normal." Or any other variation of that, it does not mean that invul saves cannot be taken. The only time an invul save cannot be taken is if the weapon has a special rule saying so (i.e. the old psycannon). In this case, however, while the way you got there was wrong, the outcome is correct IMO. Cleansing flame is a psychic power, not a CC attack. No wyche saves.

As much as it hurts to give the GK anything, I'd have to say based on RAW, Cleansing Flame is a Psychic power, not a CC attack, and only counts as a CC after wounds have been taken.

No CC only invuln saves. This goes for the Swarmlord as well. 4++ blade parry doesn't work vs this power.

Phiasco II wrote:This power can be used during the Assault phase in either player's turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of 4+. Armor saves can be taken as normal.

Seems pretty clear. Armor saves can be taken as normal. The Witch 4++ save is a special save that only happens in CC, not a normal save.

1st ever post btw, so please be gentle when crushing me in my noobness

Anyone crushing you in this case would have to crush the RAW, so you'll be fine.

Sothas

Ok, I'll try being gentle. If something says "armor saves can be taken as normal." Or any other variation of that, it does not mean that invul saves cannot be taken. The only time an invul save cannot be taken is if the weapon has a special rule saying so (i.e. the old psycannon). In this case, however, while the way you got there was wrong, the outcome is correct IMO. Cleansing flame is a psychic power, not a CC attack. No wyche saves.

Good point. I was reading things a little to literally.

What about warding staves? They project a force field to give a 2+ invul to close combat attacks.. Fluff wise I see the DE not being able to dodge (can only jump so high, and will come back down), but I don't see why the stave energy shield wouldn't protect against it.

invisiblade wrote:What about warding staves? They project a force field to give a 2+ invul to close combat attacks.. Fluff wise I see the DE not being able to dodge (can only jump so high, and will come back down), but I don't see why the stave energy shield wouldn't protect against it.

Fluff does not equal rules, but I'll indulge you. Fluff wise Cleansing Flame is a righteous flame that burns the opponents very being from the inside based on darkness of spirit. Everyone has at least some darkness in their life, so when the Purifiers channel the Cleansing Flame it ignites that darkness into flame that burns the person from the inside. Only the Purifiers can walk through it unhurt as they are the most uncorruptible beings in the Imperium. Therefor a personal force field created to deflect melee blows would do nothing to help stop a flame burning you from the inside.

veidin wrote:

invisiblade wrote:What about warding staves? They project a force field to give a 2+ invul to close combat attacks.. Fluff wise I see the DE not being able to dodge (can only jump so high, and will come back down), but I don't see why the stave energy shield wouldn't protect against it.

Fluff does not equal rules, but I'll indulge you. Fluff wise Cleansing Flame is a righteous flame that burns the opponents very being from the inside based on darkness of spirit. Everyone has at least some darkness in their life, so when the Purifiers channel the Cleansing Flame it ignites that darkness into flame that burns the person from the inside. Only the Purifiers can walk through it unhurt as they are the most uncorruptible beings in the Imperium. Therefor a personal force field created to deflect melee blows would do nothing to help stop a flame burning you from the inside.

Actually, they manifest the flames from their will and send it forth at the intended target. If it hits, it then burns the soul with in.

In theory, you could dodge that, which makes total sense since you are allowed an armor save to begin with. I mean, how would wearing body army protect you from flames burning you from the inside out lol

invisiblade wrote:What about warding staves? They project a force field to give a 2+ invul to close combat attacks.. Fluff wise I see the DE not being able to dodge (can only jump so high, and will come back down), but I don't see why the stave energy shield wouldn't protect against it.

RAW wise this is still a question. No one can agree on when CC actually starts. Warding staves give a 2+ save while in close combat (not vs close combat attacks). So this ruling isn't as cut and dry. Personally I'm going with the warding staff works, but I really don't know for sure.

omerakk wrote:

veidin wrote:

invisiblade wrote:What about warding staves? They project a force field to give a 2+ invul to close combat attacks.. Fluff wise I see the DE not being able to dodge (can only jump so high, and will come back down), but I don't see why the stave energy shield wouldn't protect against it.

Fluff does not equal rules, but I'll indulge you. Fluff wise Cleansing Flame is a righteous flame that burns the opponents very being from the inside based on darkness of spirit. Everyone has at least some darkness in their life, so when the Purifiers channel the Cleansing Flame it ignites that darkness into flame that burns the person from the inside. Only the Purifiers can walk through it unhurt as they are the most uncorruptible beings in the Imperium. Therefor a personal force field created to deflect melee blows would do nothing to help stop a flame burning you from the inside.

Actually, they manifest the flames from their will and send it forth at the intended target. If it hits, it then burns the soul with in.

In theory, you could dodge that, which makes total sense since you are allowed an armor save to begin with. I mean, how would wearing body army protect you from flames burning you from the inside out lol

DE wyches do not have evasion. Wait... wrong game?

veidin wrote:

Aglobalthreat wrote:Hmm nope pretty sure I quoted rules from codices and the rule book so I think that counts for more than "it needs a FAQ".

And you know what your right I guess it does have a big effect on the game it completely breaks Wyches for CC against Purifiers. Wyches aren't really good for anything but CC and I find it hard to believe that GW would want to ruin a unit that was just released. The only thing going for wyches is to get them into combat.

Oh and I've never said I believe they should get cover saves.

The bottom line is we disagree you sir in all your nerdrage are not going to change my mind, no matter how well you think you can articulate your posts and re word the same stuff you have been spewing over and over.

If you would actually read my posts I currently play wyches without the invul save against purifiers and will continue to do so. But I do believe it needs a FAQ and there is not a damn thing you can do or say to change my mind.

And the last thing the full rules from codex GK were quoted on the very first page of this thread about 8 posts in and there were people that have disagreed after that.

Ruin a unit that was just released? Just so Im understanding things, you are upset that a SINGLE unit in the entirety of the GK codex has the ability to smack Wyches down? Really? How does this ruin a unit? Are you of the mind that Wyches are no longer useable because if you go against a Purifier spam army you may have to put more effort forth?

You didnt mention cover saves, I apologize I re-read through and that was another can of worms. Not you though so you are correct there.

I'm not sure where the nerdrage comments keep coming from considering we're both arguing about the same game and the same rules so if Im nerdraging, then by default you are as well. Either way the comment brings nothing to the argument so meh.

Im very sorry you disagree with a rule that is clearly written.

djdutton that has been the main point of everything in these 4 pages. The GK codex is very specific as to when and what about the power is when it comes to close combat attacks. Fluff wise you are correct it is righteous fire that consumes from the inside of the model. Nothing shoots out of the Purifiers or anything to dodge. However, fluff doesnt matter when it comes to rules so that's a moot point. :( In the end the rule is written as a psychic power that causes wounds which when unsaved become CC attacks counted towards combat resolution period.

You sir, are most defanately guilty of raging like a nerd... or "Nerdrage" Case and point would be as follows

wallacethe5 wrote:It means nothing else but a psychic ability. SAY all you want, but it is NEITHER A SHOOTING OR A CC Attack.

It is just a psychic ability used before ANY blows are struck IN CC. Yes, even in opponent's turn. IT IS VERY SPECIFIC.

If you choose to use it, before any blows are struck.

Word for word. If I am in CC with you even in your phase/ turn, I have by the POWER OF RAW, to declare to use the cleansing flame power before any blows are struck as outline by the CODEX Grey Knights rule, (This power can be used during the Assualt phase in either player's turn, after assualt moves have been made, but before any blows are struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assualt suffer one wound on the roll 4+. Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pray tell, where does it say it is a shooting or CC attack? WHERE? WHERE? Point it out. The rule is straight forward as it is. It is a psychic power used before CC. If you have no armour saves, tough luck. If your invulnarable is triggered by CC, than tough luck too because CODEX Grey Knight is also very specific of the saves you get. (Armour saves can be taken as normal.) It is a psychic power used by purifiers. NOT CC or shooting. Get over it.

When you get so angry you attack the poster not the general question it's self. I, Myself, have been guilty of "Nerdrage" and I can see how easy it is to give in the dark side of Nerdom.

The easyest way to end this debate once and forall is to simply agree to disagree untill an offical response from GW is released. Either in the from of an FAQ or a Corporate "Stop the Rage" letter that GW is so fond of.

Aglobalthreat has many valid points, even if you sir disagree. You, also have several valid points. But you make it very difficult to want to accept your points of view when you attack other posters because you feel you are superior to that person.

I hope that in future posts we can all just get along... Seeing as how we all have the same goal in mind. TO WAGE WAR IN THE 41'ST MILLENIUM!

and on a side note, completely unrelated to the rest of this post but rellavent to the topic I Feel that the DE *Waves of static wash over transmission* So yeah. that's my oppinion.

Is anyone else disapointed that the FAQ didn't talk about this issue at all? No clearification for this one, and I think out of all the questions, this one was one of the top.

Sothas wrote:Is anyone else disapointed that the FAQ didn't talk about this issue at all? No clearification for this one, and I think out of all the questions, this one was one of the top.

More than likely it wasn't addressed as it isnt one of the top FAQs. This has only been brought up sparingly and only when vs DE just due to the Inv against CC attacks save Wyches have. As it is limited to that army it hasn't been asked frequently enough on a global level to really garner spotlight. Things like Shunt punching, DK's type if they take PT's, classifying Daemons, etc are all things that effect the armies functionality and require clarification asap. Cleansing flames ability to damage Wyches isn't a highly discussed issue. (not including this thread of course) Much like there also was no clarification if the Vindicare's 4D6 armor pen shot works against living metal. Due to it being limited to only coming up against a single army it hasn't actually come to GW's attention. Or rather it hasnt come to their attention in a way that they feel it requires a clarification.

At least that's the way I kinda am seeing things. Sadly there aren't a huge amount of DE players and those that do play arent going to face GK on a day to day basis so there's little actual times for this issue to present itself. That being said defer to your TO in a tourney or come to an agreement with your opponent before the game starts how you want to rule this issue in friendly games.

FAQ is OUT! FAQ is OUT! FAQ IS ... Fail....

*Face Palm*

New FAQ is out looks like we will be getting our 4+ invuls. Glad I didn't make myself look like an idiot arguing this to death like some people. And I'm glad I waited for this FAQ.

Aglobalthreat wrote:Glad I didn't make myself look like an idiot arguing this to death like some people.

A FAQ result can't make someone look like an idiot by disagreeing their previous position. Only their defense of said position can do that.