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htj wrote:
Transformers 2 is a bad, bad film. It played like an out of breath eight year old trying to tell you a story about his toys, and how awesome they were. It relied on visual spectacle from shot to shot, rather than coherent visual transition and storytelling. The bloody thing gave me a headache. I'm not denying that anyone enjoyed the film, but it was a poorly made work, and should not be called 'good.' To claim that no film can be considered objectively better than another is an insult to the medium.

After seeing what Mr. Shamalamalan did to Aang and friends, I find it hard to consider something "a bad, bad film" if it's even the slightest bit more entertaining than The Last Airbender was. Transformers 2 had kitten calendars, a bad-ass Optimus, and Megan Fox in hot-pants going for it. The only upside I could find to Airbender was that it introduced me to an amazing show that I'd completely missed the first time around. What was even better: they had a parody of their own show (in theater form) in one of the last episodes...and *that* was even better than the movie turned out to be.

I'm not saying Transformers 2 was objectively "good." It's impossible, because everyone has different tastes. But as for myself, my friends, and my family, we all found it very entertaining (if a little over-the-top).

bushido wrote:What was even better: they had a parody of their own show (in theater form) in one of the last episodes...and *that* was even better than the movie turned out to be.

Best recap/flashback episode in the history of any show ever doing that, IMO.

bushido wrote:

htj wrote:
Transformers 2 is a bad, bad film. It played like an out of breath eight year old trying to tell you a story about his toys, and how awesome they were. It relied on visual spectacle from shot to shot, rather than coherent visual transition and storytelling. The bloody thing gave me a headache. I'm not denying that anyone enjoyed the film, but it was a poorly made work, and should not be called 'good.' To claim that no film can be considered objectively better than another is an insult to the medium.

After seeing what Mr. Shamalamalan did to Aang and friends, I find it hard to consider something "a bad, bad film" if it's even the slightest bit more entertaining than The Last Airbender was. Transformers 2 had kitten calendars, a bad-ass Optimus, and Megan Fox in hot-pants going for it. The only upside I could find to Airbender was that it introduced me to an amazing show that I'd completely missed the first time around. What was even better: they had a parody of their own show (in theater form) in one of the last episodes...and *that* was even better than the movie turned out to be.

I'm not saying Transformers 2 was objectively "good." It's impossible, because everyone has different tastes. But as for myself, my friends, and my family, we all found it very entertaining (if a little over-the-top).

Maybe good is too fuzzy a word, rather it was objectively not a well made film. Michael Bay is a very competent shot composer, and a consumate perfectionist, but when left to his own devices he tends to lack... restraint. Also, he should be kept the heck away from storylines. Fortunately, I have not seen the Last Airbender, so perhaps lacking that apparently nightmarish experience, I have harsher standards.

Platuan4th wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Am I the only one that didnt care for Hotrod/Rodimus?

You mean the Bot that nearly half the fandom blames for Optimus' death?

.

But that's his story arc, isn't it?

The Galvatron differences from Megatron were cool because they were
story/character based. He was a tool of Unicron and it affected his psychology.

I think I'll go watch the optimus/megatron, galvatron/rodimus fights on youtube now.

malfred wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Am I the only one that didnt care for Hotrod/Rodimus?

You mean the Bot that nearly half the fandom blames for Optimus' death?

.

But that's his story arc, isn't it?

Megatron would have shot Optimus regardless of the Rod's interference. All the Rod did was attempt to stop the shooting and get used as a robot shield for his efforts.

Not every Autobot can be Impactor, who's willing to shoot through the body of his own troops(whilst using them as a shield).

Besides, as I pointed out, Optimus looks for ANY opportunity to die a stupid, pointless death.

Then again, for the Rodimus Prime haters, there's always the bleak far future of 2009 where the Decepticons have destroyed New York and strung up Rodimus' body between the ruined WTC towers.

htj wrote:
Maybe good is too fuzzy a word, rather it was objectively not a well made film. Michael Bay is a very competent shot composer, and a consumate perfectionist, but when left to his own devices he tends to lack... restraint. Also, he should be kept the heck away from storylines. Fortunately, I have not seen the Last Airbender, so perhaps lacking that apparently nightmarish experience, I have harsher standards.

Well, the major cringe-worthy scene for me was when Simmons basically said to the old transformer "ok, now tell us the plot." But other than that, I'm more of a "just go with it" type of person...not inclined to nitpick something to death. I suppose testicle jokes just don't offend me as much as everyone tells me they should.

KingCracker wrote:Am I the only one that didnt care for Hotrod/Rodimus?

You are not the only one.

Well, if they could re-do the entire franchise set to the
same soundtrack as the original Transformers Animated
film. It'd be awesome.

Imagine Megan Fox in a scene with "the touch" playing in the background.

Rodimus sounds like a name a country bumpkin would have.

'Hey Rodimus, git me samore bud lite!'

'Alright Virgil, i'll go down to the creek an' git it'

You can't forget "Dare to be Stupid." That would be perfect the perfect song to accompany one of Sam's spaz attacks.

malfred wrote:Well, if they could re-do the entire franchise set to the
same soundtrack as the original Transformers Animated
film. It'd be awesome.

Imagine Megan Fox in a scene with "the touch" playing in the background.

Be careful what you wish for, Felix:

Thanks That's Awesome!

Well, except for the rapping.

Bah. Not the original as I thought. :( A re-do.

Gah, this thread is making me want to get back to work on my monolith megatron conversion.

This is what happened. Direct quote from Bay. ""Transformers: Dark of the Moon" is an improvement on "Revenge of the Fallen." It's a lousy movie, but at least it's a lousy movie with a serviceable story, killer CGI and an action climax that goes on forever (at least an hour). An awful lot of people like that kind of thing -- my kids included."

Inspiring words.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If Rodimus is the same as Hot Rod, then Megatron is the same as Galvatron. Lord help us all :(

The are the same "person", just in a different body and, like real people with real personalities, their circumstances and environment changed them.

How is it so difficult for you to understand that the differences in Rodimus/Hot Rod are the he simply "matured" and his physical changes are due to possessing/implantation of the Matrix of Leadership.

You have not provided anything solid to prove that Megatron is a different character to Megatron.

The thing I didn't get about the movies is how there was no, absolutely zero character growth. Protagonist high school student, loser nerd has an awesome adventure and picks up a hot chick and a hot car that can turn into an ass-kicking robot.

2nd movie, same character and he's still a loser but has somehow maintained a long-distance relationship with hot girlfriend while not toting a laser gun or even stopped being a wuss. I would think that surviving all that he made it through would instill a little confidence in him or the ability to not be such a sniveling waste of space.

I'll see the third movie and have given up on the character actually being any different than in the other two films.
"Gee, I'm like totally surprised that there are evil robots trying to destroy the world, even though I've seen it twice now and survived it. I'm completely unprepared for it and have not bothered to either learn about my enemy or gain the necessary skills/equipment to defend myself."

I know the US government and military are bunch of bumbling morons in movies but gee, you think they could do better than the even more worthless moron that hangs around the robots...

can't beat this. Old transformers all the way. But i saw the new transformers last night and it's a close second behing the original cartoon movie

Dark of the Moon just about Redeems Revenge of the Fallen in Bayformers. Still no where near as good as Beast Wars or Animated though. About on par with Beast Machines.

That is.... pretty awful then.

It was not as good or as bad as the hype. I liked the final battle, though I think that the shenanigans with the falling building went on too long. It reminded me of the extended scene of the T-rexes pushing the trailer off of the cliff in Jurassic park 2.

AvatarForm wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If Rodimus is the same as Hot Rod, then Megatron is the same as Galvatron. Lord help us all :(

The are the same "person", just in a different body and, like real people with real personalities, their circumstances and environment changed them.

How is it so difficult for you to understand that the differences in Rodimus/Hot Rod are the he simply "matured" and his physical changes are due to possessing/implantation of the Matrix of Leadership.

You have not provided anything solid to prove that Megatron is a different character to Megatron.

Kinda like the difference between Prime and Epic Warcasters in Warmachine.

whitedragon wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If Rodimus is the same as Hot Rod, then Megatron is the same as Galvatron. Lord help us all :(

The are the same "person", just in a different body and, like real people with real personalities, their circumstances and environment changed them.

How is it so difficult for you to understand that the differences in Rodimus/Hot Rod are the he simply "matured" and his physical changes are due to possessing/implantation of the Matrix of Leadership.

You have not provided anything solid to prove that Megatron is a different character to Megatron.

Kinda like the difference between Prime and Epic Warcasters in Warmachine.

Yep. There's even a term for it: Reformatting.

"This includes G1 Megatron's rebirth as Galvatron, the Maximals becoming technorganic life-forms, and the creation of the Cybertron Defense Team."

Bolding added for emphasis.

Did they at least get rid of the stupid "Comedy robots" from the 2nd film - hopefully something fatal happened to them

Has anyone here played War for Cybertron??? I personally LOVED that game (both for story and actual gameplay) and I try to tell other Transformer fans about it as much as possible.

As for the actual discussion, I like the movies, but I'll definately agree that they're complete garbage.

My first problem was when:

After that I realized the series was going to be nothing but mind-numbing action that has barely anything to do with the original story

*le sigh*

mega_bassist wrote:
After that I realized the series was going to be nothing but mind-numbing action that has barely anything to do with the original story

Ummm... duh? They told us that when they announced the movies. It's not even in the same universal cluster!

Also, I love the War for Cybertron game, great prequel to the new Prime series(also not in the G1 Universe).

For those unfamiliar:

At this time, there are six primary continuity families in the Transformers multiverse. These are:

Generation 1 / Beast Era (the "Primax Cluster" according to the TransTech)
Robots in Disguise ("Viron Cluster")
the Unicron Trilogy ("Aurex Cluster")
the live-action film series ("Tyran Cluster")
Transformers Animated ("Malgus Cluster")
Aligned (Prime and War for Cybertron, yet to have a Transtech Cluster named assigned to it)

Additional continuity families include:

The "mirror universe" Shattered Glass
The Transtech universe ("Nexus")
A much less prominent family centered on the Playskool Go-Bots toyline ("Yayayarst Cluster")
The original GoBots, who have been explicitly crossed over with Transformers thanks to fans turned pro ("Gargent")
The real-world continuity family ("Quadwal Cluster")

AvatarForm wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If Rodimus is the same as Hot Rod, then Megatron is the same as Galvatron. Lord help us all :(

The are the same "person", just in a different body and, like real people with real personalities, their circumstances and environment changed them.

How is it so difficult for you to understand that the differences in Rodimus/Hot Rod are the he simply "matured" and his physical changes are due to possessing/implantation of the Matrix of Leadership.

You have not provided anything solid to prove that Megatron is a different character to Megatron.

He looks different, acts differently and has a different name, not to mention that in a couple of the universes Galvatron is a separate character. Typically when someone announces they're a Megatron fan then you say "yeah, I also like Galvatron" they'll look at you funny.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
He looks different, acts differently and has a different name, not to mention that in a couple of the universes Galvatron is a separate character. Typically when someone announces they're a Megatron fan then you say "yeah, I also like Galvatron" they'll look at you funny.

G1:
Galvatron AND Galvatron II are both Megatron reformats from different timelines

Unicron Trilogy:
All THREE Galvatrons are Megatron upgrades

Robots In Disguise/Car Robots:
Megatron upgrade

Shattered Glass:
Megatron upgrade

The only series where he's a different robot is Beast Wars II in Japan. I don't count the Galvatron drones from Autobot stronghold because Drones aren't sentient and thus aren't characters.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Galvatron

In fact, at the end of Season 3 in G1, he talks to Optimus about "the good old days" when they used to fight. The only time before that point they ever interacted was when Galvatron was Megatron.

Canonically, they're the same bot and nothing you say will change that.

I like them both. i like Galvatron better actually. I think he's a better drawn figure, and his insanity was always enjoyable.

Frazzled wrote:I like them both. i like Galvatron better actually. I think he's a better drawn figure, and his insanity was always enjoyable.

It's just a pity that Frank Welker didn't even attempt to make him sound like Leonard Nemoy, though.

Actually, Platuan, in the recent updated continuity in the IDW comics, Galvatron IS a distinctly different Transformer than Megatron, so it's no longer just in Beast Wars II. Granted, the series is a complete separate continuity that's unrelated to the others except in how the story is like a G1 reboot, but still.

And as far as the fans go, even though he's technically just an upgraded Megatron, his nature and form are different enough that most TF fans tend to consider them two separate characters rather than "Character 2.0." It's usually a given that at some point in a series Megatron will undergo the transformation to Galvatron, but it's less the revival of Megatron and more the introduction of his replacement. They act and look different enough that there's a need to differentiate between the two, and the fact that he doesn't go by the same name any longer is one of the indicators.

Edit: Also, I refuse to accept Hot Rod as a Prime. I've actually done this in real life - people have said "Rodimus Prime" and I tend to reply "Which bot now? I could have sworn you said Hot Rod there." (Note that's it's in good fun - I just really didn't like the whole "Rodimus" thing at all, so I joke around about it. He was an inferior choice and a rubbish commander, if he can even be called that.)