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Mr Mystery wrote:I reckon we'll see...

Plastic Coach, Plastic Zombies, Plastic Vargulf, plus a brand new unit (which I know nothing of, just speculating)

Why would we get a plastic Vargulf? That would be a total waste.


EDIT: And do you say that based on anything, or total wishlisting?

I don't know if it's a "total waste".

We saw two new metal Rat Ogres not even four months before the plastic kits were released.

I'd say he's making a guess based upon the more "reliable" rumors.

If there is going to be a vargulf kit, I bet it may be a dual kit for an abyssal terror

Or something

Or it might simply be them moving Varghulf into being like Giant Eagles or Bolt Throwers, where you get more than one per slot.

Varghulf/Abyssal Terror would be cool. I don't even know what a WHFB Abyssal Terror is supposed to look like.

ph34r wrote:Varghulf/Abyssal Terror would be cool. I don't even know what a WHFB Abyssal Terror is supposed to look like.

Well if the art is suppose to be accurate, its a giant evil bat

But I guess anything large and scary with wings count as long as its not a dragon

There's no real "generic" Abyssal Terror. They can be huge bat-like beasts, creatures of Chaos from the mountains, nightmarish creations of Dark Magic, or whatever.

Point is that a "generic" Abyssal Terror might be a bit silly considering they can range from zombified Wyverns and Griffons to Arkhan the Black's chariot which was built around the still-living heart and wings of a Manticore.

Kanluwen wrote:

Minsc wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:HBMC: How is the current VC list "gutted" from the 6 ed list? I finally got to play the list 'I' wanted to play, rather than be pigeon holed into a bloodline. Frankly, the 7th ed book is vastly superior to the old one (though I did miss my skirmishing ghouls).

Well, for starters, Necromancer Armies. It'd sort of be like an O&G book stating "An Orc must be your general."

It's "Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts", not "Warhammer Armies: Undead".

There are many of us that would be far happier if they had remained "Warhammer Armies: Undead". I would gladly give up the Vampire general requirement and get my archers back. And before you say Tomb Kings. I played them all through 6th ed. and they never satisfied.

Crimson Devil wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Minsc wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:HBMC: How is the current VC list "gutted" from the 6 ed list? I finally got to play the list 'I' wanted to play, rather than be pigeon holed into a bloodline. Frankly, the 7th ed book is vastly superior to the old one (though I did miss my skirmishing ghouls).

Well, for starters, Necromancer Armies. It'd sort of be like an O&G book stating "An Orc must be your general."

It's "Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts", not "Warhammer Armies: Undead".

There are many of us that would be far happier if they had remained "Warhammer Armies: Undead". I would gladly give up the Vampire general requirement and get my archers back. And before you say Tomb Kings. I played them all through 6th ed. and they never satisfied.

Me neither... 1 unit of 50 archer led by khalida is not the same feel as
archer army of 3x 20 archer led by khalida

Kanluwen wrote:We saw two new metal Rat Ogres not even four months before the plastic kits were released.

Uh, those "new" metal Rat Ogres were re-releases of way old Rat Ogres, not anything new.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:We saw two new metal Rat Ogres not even four months before the plastic kits were released.

Uh, those "new" metal Rat Ogres were re-releases of way old Rat Ogres, not anything new.

Which is irrelevant, as they had not been in general production at the time.

Kanluwen wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:We saw two new metal Rat Ogres not even four months before the plastic kits were released.

Uh, those "new" metal Rat Ogres were re-releases of way old Rat Ogres, not anything new.

Which is irrelevant, as they had not been in general production at the time.

It is relevant, because they took zero sculpting effort. GW is not likely to create a new different plastic kit of something they just sculpted.

They didn't "just sculpt" the Varghulf.

Kanluwen wrote:They didn't "just sculpt" the Varghulf.

It's recent enough.

I'd be shocked if there was a new Varghulf- the current one looks quite good, imo, and I doubt they'd feel the need to remake it, rather than make new units or address older sculpts.

There's no doubt that the current one looks quite good, but it's very clearly a reminder of the fact that most people would field "just one" when the book first released.

They did a great many things wrong in how they sculpted stuff for the VC's. Mostly making very "generic" unit types be the exception, rather than the norm.
-Varghulf can only be assembled one way, and will look the same unless someone really goes into converting it.
-Blood Knights will look the same, no matter what, if someone uses the actual models.
-There's very few "generic" Vampire characters that were released alongside the book. We had Lady Hookerboots and Lord Wingarm, then we had 2x Mannfreds, Vlad, and Konrad.
I'm not saying they're bad models. Far from it. Lady Hookerboots is a fantastic model, and Vlad oozes character. But there's very little in the way of actual, generic characters. It's a complaint I raised alongside of the Vampire Lord on the Zombie Dragon--there's no way to field a Lord who looks anything like him on foot if his mount gets killed.
-I've already mentioned my one 'issue' with the plastic characters that they released over the summer, which actually fits in with the Vampire models complaint: very little "generic", they all look very set and there's no parts from plastic kits that can be readily cannibalized to make them look specific.

If they really are going to move towards "Monster Counts" as suggested, then I'd be shocked if Varghulf were not able to be fielded in some kind of "Pack" and a plastic double pack with some Bat Swarms or Fell Bats is not released. Worst case scenario, they release a second posed Finecast Varghulf.

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't the last VC book released around 4-ish years ago? I was still at my last job, and I've been at my current job for nearly 3.5, so it's probably older than most people think.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't the last VC book released around 4-ish years ago? I was still at my last job, and I've been at my current job for nearly 3.5, so it's probably older than most people think.

It was indeed released in 2008, so 4-ish years ago sounds right.

The speculation/justification that is being used for "why are Vampires getting updated so fast?" is one which actually makes sense.

"Fear", which is a mechanic that was a defining feature of VC armies, was heavily nerfed in the new addition. Couple that with the fact that out of an army book swelling with choices, very few are actually taken by the majority of players and it becomes something GW wants rectified.

March 2008. Perhaps it will have been 4 years by the time the book has come out. Compare to Brets, WE, and Dwarves, however, the VC book is a Spring Chicken.

Comparing to Brets and Dwarves however is silly.
A core mechanic of those armies isn't broken.

Wood Elves is really the only book which is in the same boat with a "broken core mechanic" and very few of their choices being taken, but it might simply be that Wood Elves are going to take awhile simply because they have no clue how to make a reliable fix rather than just a bandaid to make it work during this current edition.

In 7e a common argument amongst VC players was Skeletons v Ghouls. The odds came out so evenly on both sides that both were valid choices.

In 8e Ghouls are the clear choice, but so many others are utter crap. The Blood Knights are a clear indication of GW pricing people out of the hobby. With a cost of well more than double what I would have spent (yes, I would have actually tolerated a $50 price tag) they were unbuyable. Since I couldn't buy them, I never played them. (I have WAY too many Black Knights, though...)

In the end it was Fear that (kept the local systems in line) won me the game time and again. Fear and a reliable magic phase.

Guess what's changed?

Nagashek wrote:In the end it was Fear that (kept the local systems in line) won me the game time and again. Fear and a reliable magic phase.

Guess what's changed?

Someone blew up your Death Star?






See, that works on two levels!

The worst thing is, Fear was not the sole advantage that the "Death Star" units had.

It was what won Zombies and Skeletons combats too.

Kanluwen wrote:The worst thing is, Fear was not the sole advantage that the "Death Star" units had.

It was what won Zombies and Skeletons combats too.

Are you talking about the lack of step up, the front rank only attacks, and the way combat res used to work? Yes. That too.

As I've said before: 4 fixes for a problem when only one was needed.

Fear didn't win the combats for the BK deathstars. Rediculous numbers of strong attacks hitting first is what won combats. Fear never mattered to Bloodknights.

Wood Elves only get an army book every 2-3 editions, one in 4th edition (1996), one in 6th edition (2005). Last time they invented a new subfraction (Kislev) and a new race (Ogres) to avoid making them for another year. So expect the next WE army book 2014

That's not funny Kroothawk... :(

The only other army (other than my VC) that I'm interested in would be Wood Elves and they sorely need an update (just to the rules, the majority of the models are just fine)!

A plastic forest dragon would be nice though...

Agreed, and some plastic, not-crappy treekin while they are at it.

Ozymandias wrote:Agreed, and some plastic, not-crappy treekin while they are at it.

Yea, I mean they already have a very nice plastic Treeman! . Anyways back on topic who knows if they have a plastic varghulf set or not. GW does have some strange tendencies

Kanluwen wrote:Comparing to Brets and Dwarves however is silly.
A core mechanic of those armies isn't broken.

Cavalry charges aren't broken in your opinion? I think (rules wise) that both Brets and Wood Elves need an update more than Vampire Counts do.