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GhostxHeart wrote:
But after a further 2 months, I received the pieces, an apology letter and a Dhenegra card that had been signed by a few of the developers.

Weird outcome haha

Maybe insead of sending people unsolicited autographs they could get down to the warehouse and pack some boxes?

Just a thought...

biccat wrote:Private lawsuits aren't intended to be deterrents, they're intended to reimburse you, make you whole. If you want a deterrent, file a class action suit or contact the authorities and file a criminal complaint.

You are aware that a class action lawsuit is just a private lawsuit with multiple complainants, right? They also require an immense amount of money, and thus are often not accessible to most people. I believe I've already addressed that issue.

biccat wrote:This is the type of attitude that can get you in trouble for abuse of process.

Wait, wait wait... is the IP lawyer actually crying foul about abusing the legal system?



In any case, this is NOT abuse of process, as even if the OP had paid with a credit card, it was several months ago. He has clearly demonstrated that he has attempted to have the issue resolved with the company, and the company has repeatedly given him the runaround. At this point, he is most definitely justified in going to court.

Now, you may not value your time, but I certainly value mine. And if I have to waste any significant amount of time just to get my money back through no fault of my own, then I fully intend to attach a price tag to that, at the expense of whoever wasted my time.

azazel the cat wrote:You are aware that a class action lawsuit is just a private lawsuit with multiple complainants, right? They also require an immense amount of money, and thus are often not accessible to most people. I believe I've already addressed that issue.

Quite aware, actually.

In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume I know a lot more than you about the purpose, effect, and procedure for class action lawsuits.

azazel the cat wrote:

biccat wrote:This is the type of attitude that can get you in trouble for abuse of process.

Wait, wait wait... is the IP lawyer actually crying foul about abusing the legal system?

Could you explain this some more? Are you accusing me of abusing the legal system?

azazel the cat wrote:Now, you may not value your time, but I certainly value mine. And if I have to waste any significant amount of time just to get my money back through no fault of my own, then I fully intend to attach a price tag to that, at the expense of whoever wasted my time.

And the judge is going to throw out that measure of damages because it's not recoverable. And if the defendant is feeling particularly vindictive, he's going to countersue for abuse of process because you included damages that are not recoverable by law.

That will usually include attorney fees (to review the complaint), travel time to get to the venue, and whatever time it takes to resolve the case.

biccat wrote:
Quite aware, actually.

In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume I know a lot more than you about the purpose, effect, and procedure for class action lawsuits.

Given that the bulk of my legal knowledge lies within the realm of criminal law as opposed to tort law, I'd tend to agree. Which then begs the question: if you know so much about it, why are you suggesting that the OP burn through his bank account in a class-action lawsuit rather than take action through a small claims suit wherein the cost to him is minimal and entirely recoverable, given that he has demonstrated that he has made every reasonable effort to have this issue resolved privately, to no avail?

biccat wrote:This is the type of attitude that can get you in trouble for abuse of process.

azazel the cat wrote:Wait, wait wait... is the IP lawyer actually crying foul about abusing the legal system?

biccat wrote:Could you explain this some more? Are you accusing me of abusing the legal system?

Not at all; I don't know you personally. However, believe I could make a fairly straightforward argument about how the entire issue surrounding current US IP laws is based on the abuse of the legal system. (MPAA, RIAA, et cetera)

biccat wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Now, you may not value your time, but I certainly value mine. And if I have to waste any significant amount of time just to get my money back through no fault of my own, then I fully intend to attach a price tag to that, at the expense of whoever wasted my time.

And the judge is going to throw out that measure of damages because it's not recoverable. And if the defendant is feeling particularly vindictive, he's going to countersue for abuse of process because you included damages that are not recoverable by law.

That will usually include attorney fees (to review the complaint), travel time to get to the venue, and whatever time it takes to resolve the case.

That claim is easily recoverable. The plaintiff merely has to reasonably demonstrate they the amount of time they spent on the issue, and then demonstrate what that amount of time would cost based on current wages. Buried somewhere within the torts is a guideline of how much of a mileage allowance is considered reasonable, as well. As to psychological damages, this is very easy to show in civil court, though very difficult to show to an extent of $25k. As I said originally, a judge will not likely grant this, but that's not the point. The point is that a $25k suit gets someone's attention a lot quicker than a $250 lawsuit. And in Canada I have never heard of a precedent for countersuits filed based on abuse of process wherein a single suit is filed. (filing a suit every week for a year, yes, that would have precedent.) However, the amount that is being sued for has no bearing on the validity of the case itself. That's why I said in my original post that Canadian judges have tremendous breadth with which to decide cases; they are not limited to analogue choices presented in the suits.

In most jurisdictions within Canada, small claims court is very accessible and easy to use. I am not sure, however, about how easy i would be to use it to sue Privateer as a US company over this. There's probably a procedure for it, but I'm guessing it's a bit more convoluted.

One thing I absolutely agree with Azazel about is that people let companies run roughshod over them when they don't have to. Even up in Canada, we're exposed to enough of the American legal system on tv shows and the news that people tend to have a "you can't ever beat a corporation" mindset.

frozenwastes wrote:In most jurisdictions within Canada, small claims court is very accessible and easy to use. I am not sure, however, about how easy i would be to use it to sue Privateer as a US company over this. There's probably a procedure for it, but I'm guessing it's a bit more convoluted.

So long as that company does business in Canada, the procedure is no different. However, if the company is not based in Canada, then actually collecting any money becomes a slightly more complicated procedure. However, in the case of companies that distribute within Canada, it is again fairly straightforward as it means said company will have physical assets that can be seized after completing the proper paperwork in the event that the company refuses to pay following a court decision.

I don't believe Privateer does. They sell in Canada through distributors and directly from their US location. They're exporters and don't maintain any sort of "Privateer Canada" legal entity.

So after winning your case there, you essentially have a case in a US court getting them to approve of the judgement made here. Though I think there's some sort of registering process you go through and you don't actually have to appear in the US court.

That sounds about right. I don't know the exact process for collecting from an out-of-country entity.

I just wanted to follow up on this topic rather than let it die and have people wonder if it ever got resolved.

Simple answer: it's all sorted out now.

Long answer: I spoke to Adam and he advised me that I was never actually charged for the product and that's why the purchase got "lost in the fold"

I tried to go online and look at my Visa history and unfortunately it only went as far back as 6 months, so I had to order a copy of it.

I received the statements from Visa and went through it and sure enough, I could find no evidence of being charged - so needless to say - I feel stupid.

That being said, the only reason I thought it was charged is I was told it was allegidly shipped not once, but twice, and lost in the mail both times. So it was a clerical error from Privateer Press which the order got overlooked/lost, and also me being the typical lazy North American consumer not reviewing my Visa statements in detail, it was simply overlooked.

So - issue resolved - and I actually ordered a battle box and split the cost with a buddy (I'm starting Menoth, he is starting Khador) and I look forward to gaming with Privateer press!

tl;dr - privateer press clerical error lost my order, i didnt check my visa. Two negatives make a positive? Final result: Everybody is happy/fine

I will say though, PP does have excellent customer service on the phone - Adam was EXTREMELY pleasant to deal with

If you're in Canada and ordering via mail order and not getting individual bitz/parts, I'd recommend going with Miniature Market rather than ordering direct.

I'll second using Miniature Market. I have had many great experiences with them, they keep a large stock of PP stuff, and have a 25% discount along with free shipping on orders over $99.

Excellent! Greatly appreciate the feedback on which shops to go through!

I bought the starter set from an ebayer (that i've bought TONS of stuff for 40k from) so I know it'll arrive