Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

StormForged wrote:Maybe the breech is to vent super heated air from warping the barrel?

That actually makes good sense, especially in the case of lasguns such as the No. 98 Lucius pattern used by Krieg. From the Lexicanum:

The standard issue Lasgun in service with regiments of Krieg is the no98 Lucius Pattern Lasgun. Its power pack operates at a higher charge than many other more common patterns of Lasgun. This gives the weapon more punch, but drains the powerpack after only 25 shots. The weapon is single shot only and has a slower recharge rate than many other Lasguns, however it is judged that the additional stopping power of the gun more than makes up for this. The barrel of the weapon is fitted with distinctive heat sink rings to help dissipate the enormous additional heat this high powered Lasweapon generates under sustained fire. The weapons furniture (stock and foregrip) are typically made of synthetic wood, although metal variants are known

On the model there is still a breech so I assume that the heat sink rings would be in addition to that, if the breech were for venting the heat of each discharge.

Standing in a staggered firing line would suck though with all that superheated gas flying sideways...

The breech may also simply be the slot the firing chamber is slipped into when assembling the weapon. more of a structural creation then a "breech" insofar as a solid slug weapon has a breech.

How many of these have we had?

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

Lasguns can be easily recharged and maintened in the field, meaning that once a guardsman is deployed, he doesn't necessarily require more ammunition supplies. Also, imagine the logistical nightmare of providing the amount of ammunition required to support the trillions of Guardsmen all acroos the Imperium (once a guardsman is issued with a lasgun and set of cell charges, he's set to kill goons). On top of this, lasguns are much more accurate and have longer range (being lasers).

Banzaimash wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

Lasguns can be easily recharged and maintened in the field, meaning that once a guardsman is deployed, he doesn't necessarily require more ammunition supplies. Also, imagine the logistical nightmare of providing the amount of ammunition required to support the trillions of Guardsmen all acroos the Imperium (once a guardsman is issued with a lasgun and set of cell charges, he's set to kill goons). On top of this, lasguns are much more accurate and have longer range (being lasers).

Who says it's crappier then an AK-47?

maybe if you compare overall effectivness of both weapons in their time periods, but the lasgun actually has the main features of the AK-47. Durability, ease of maintanance, cheap, and easy to use.

There's nothing wrong with the AK series of weapons. Over time they've actually gotten better, since there have been lots of different versions of the weapon, different chamberings, etc. I even think it might be arguably better than the M-16. Maybe the M4, although I gather that alot of this is "personal favorite" type stuff anyhow and what criteria you are judging by.

Also lasguns are onyl crappy if you compare them to either absurdly high end weapons (and ignore the fact most high end weapons have their own drawbacks) or use game stats (which is, IMHO pretty silly, since game stats are meant for playability rather than anything resmbling realism.)

They have gotten better in that they are becoming more accurate.

The AK-47 has superior killing power and better tolerence for unfavorable conditions, but the M16 and M4 are more accurate and longer ranged. neither is better then the other, although the ability to kill from a greater distance is a serious advantage, one that is slowely being removed because body armor is more readily avaliable.

Psienesis wrote:

Laser light has parallel photons, that is by definition the opposite of focussing.
There is no focussing in a laser
There are no lenses in a laser

40k lasers *do* have focusing rings. In some texts, they are mentioned to have "fouled lenses" or other mechanical failures that prevent their operation.

I dont know where this idea of "lasers would not have lenses" comes from, because as far as I know anyone who has researched the subject indicates they do Atomic Rockets: sidearms and how to build a laser death ray, various topics I believe, including 'focus'

Basically a laser is in the same principle as using a magnifying glass to focus sunlight - you want to get it on a small area to achieve the desired effects, and the ability to focus the photons of the laser down to a narrow point depend on a good many paramneters (size of mirror, size of lens I think, etc.)

Likewise there is focusing, because you have to get the laser down to a focal point that it can burn or explode the targt. That isn't easy, and focusing is one of the big things that determines laser range (interaction with the air is another one.)

They also, for some unfathomable reason, have breeches. Why this is, I do not know, as it has no cartridge to expel. Still, the IUP tells the Guardsman to ensure that the breech is clear when maintaining his lasrifle.

I think it just means they're referring to the rear of the weapon. Maybe that's where the capacitor or discharge components are located, or there is some other component. Or maybe the rear of the rifle opens up for maintenance or for some other purpose. It's really hard to say from a single line of text. Edit: Grey Templar had a good idea too.

The big problem about having that be the point where any waste gases emit is that, as the discussion goes, those are supposed to be the recoilling elements. Obviously you don't want hot gases blowing out at your face, but having them blow out to the side may impart sideways motion to the gun depending where along it's length the gas is emitted. That's not a good thing, as it can throw off accuracy.

Ideally you'd have the waste gasses vented out sideways at the front of the barrel, sort of like a "muzzle brake", as that is to be the point furthest from the body. But there don't seem to be muzzle brakes on any lasweapon I've ever seen. Whether it comes out of the muzzle as well depends on your context - it can't emit (obviously) if there is a lens there, but not all lasguns use lenses (a laser doesn't need an open muzzle, either.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

StormForged wrote:Maybe the breech is to vent super heated air from warping the barrel?

That actually makes good sense, especially in the case of lasguns such as the No. 98 Lucius pattern used by Krieg. From the Lexicanum:

The standard issue Lasgun in service with regiments of Krieg is the no98 Lucius Pattern Lasgun. Its power pack operates at a higher charge than many other more common patterns of Lasgun. This gives the weapon more punch, but drains the powerpack after only 25 shots. The weapon is single shot only and has a slower recharge rate than many other Lasguns, however it is judged that the additional stopping power of the gun more than makes up for this. The barrel of the weapon is fitted with distinctive heat sink rings to help dissipate the enormous additional heat this high powered Lasweapon generates under sustained fire. The weapons furniture (stock and foregrip) are typically made of synthetic wood, although metal variants are known

On the model there is still a breech so I assume that the heat sink rings would be in addition to that, if the breech were for venting the heat of each discharge.

I'm not sure how the heat sink rings mean that the breech is ejecting gases. "heat sink" implies that the rings are basically radiators (collecting and dispersing excess heat from the barrel) on top. Given that the Krieg lasgun seems to be using the same powerpack as other lasguns, the reduced ROF also allows time for the weapon to cool (It takes the power pack longer to charge a Krieg lasgun's internal capacitor than it does for say a Cadian lasgun - which makes the weapon basically a emi-automatic rifle as far as such matters go for laser weapons.)

What I meant was that the heat sink rings help to disperse the heat from the barrel whilst the 'breech' dealt with the heat at the rear of the weapon. It's just a theory.

Ah okay.. well its possible, but that depends entirely on how much heat the weapon generates, and where it's emitting. Whatever is going to be emitting the waste heat at the end of the weapon will be, well.. hot.. and that could be dangerous or risky to have come into contact with bare flesh or clothing.

They might stick it along the top of the gun, but that's where the sights typically are (IIUP said integral optics I think.. I've never seen a lasgun with iron sights, although i know it's been implied in various sources.) and alot of heat might mess with them badly.

My own guess would be they run some sort of fluid coolant through the gun to draw off excess heat, and the coolant dumps it into the radiators by the top of the gun. That would have an advantage as far as simplicity goes (no reloading coolant expended to cool the weapon) but it could limit usage and rate of fire due to heat buildup (depending on parameters of the cooling system and how much waste heat the laser generates.) sort of like how sustained firing for a machine gun will heat up its barrel.