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Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Lone Cat wrote:Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Laspistols are like regular sidearms, a 9mm.
Lascarbines are like SMGs
Lasguns are like AK-47s
Multi-Laser is like a chaingun.
Lascannon is like a anit-tank cannon.

Laspistol=any regular sidearm, 9mm, 45, etc
Lasgun=any semi-automatic/assault rifle
Multi Laser=easily an analogue to my trusty 25mm, so yes a chaingun
Lascannon=no real analogue, as the Auto cannon is supposedly the equivalent to a modern tank cannon with an auto loader....so i guess the Lascannon is more your equivalent to a Javelin, TOW, or other precision anti tank weapons system

But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

AK47 and M16 are represented by the autoguns in the game, which have the same stats as a lasgun.

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

In fluff, It is the most reliable weapon evar so, that's why.

Lascannon=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

Because it doesn't ever break down and needs almost no supplies?

Lone Cat wrote:Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Apart from not really seeing the point in those questions, here's my point of view :

1. Laspistol = as the title says, any pistol, from 9mm to .45ACP. PDW and SMG, could be represented by autopistols (which again, have the same stats as laspistol), or maybe even by autoguns (which have the same stats as lasguns). Indeed, modern SMGs (P90, MP5) almost have the same firepower as assault rifles.

2. Lasgun = yeah, any assault rifle. The most common lasgun is known to be able to fire on full auto, so it wouldn't probably get close to M1 Garand and the like.

3. Multilaser = this one is pretty tough, TBH. Chainguns & Gatling have a tremendous rate of fire, that would more get close to the Punisher gun on the Leman Russ - somewhat low strength, but the amount of lead you put into the air does inflict pain. Multilaser, as heavy, long range, automatic weapons, would rather be represented by 20/25/30mm guns. A lower rate of fire than gatlings & the like, but each shot packs much more punch !

4. Lascannon = the old AT cannon would qualify. Nowadays, it would rather depend on the ammo used in main battle tanks. A 90/105/120mm gun, with APFSDS ammunition (Armor Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Discarding Sabot) would deal damage close to a lascannon : it would punch through any armor, but with high accuracy & low collateral damage, blowing just a small hole in the target's hull but wrecking havoc from the energy unleashed inside.
The same gun firing HE (High Explosive) ammo would be closer to the standard Leman Russ Battlecannon : high power on impact, large explosion, less efficient on armour.

Some mentioned Javelin / Tows : these would be the Hunter-Killer missiles, rather.

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

Well that is an interesting statement. Any solid theory to backup your post, or is it just flame bait ?

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

In game and fluff, lasguns are able to bypass the protection of even power armour and wound a Marine, though it takes a lucky shot. I really don't think an AK or any other contemporary normal assault rifle could have the same punching power! Also, don't make the mistake to think that it's just a beam of light - lasgun shots actually do "explode" on impact. It's a bit silly in terms of science, but it's not like 40k would be particularly realistic anyways.

Lasguns only tend to be seen as "weak" because most other weapons of the 41st millennium are so devastating. It's all a matter of perspective!

Game vs fluff is different obviously, in the fluff Lasguns are much more powerful in penetrative power then an assault rifle.

Just to point this out....
most 25mm platforms are chainguns...(as in there is a motor moving a chain moving the bolt through its cycle) and their rate of fire is not all that impressive. The M242 only has a rate of fire of 200 rnds per min or less...and typically only has 210 rounds availiable to it in one upload.
I would easily equate the multilaser to the M242 off of the LAV any equivalent armament...as a Chimera is pretty much a BMP 1/2 anyway...it really fits

Lightcavalier wrote:Just to point this out....
most 25mm platforms are chainguns...(as in there is a motor moving a chain moving the bolt through its cycle) and their rate of fire is not all that impressive. The M242 only has a rate of fire of 200 rnds per min or less...and typically only has 210 rounds availiable to it in one upload.
I would easily equate the multilaser to the M242 off of the LAV any equivalent armament...as a Chimera is pretty much a BMP 1/2 anyway...it really fits

Yup, sorry for the mistake, I thought chainguns were another word for gatlings... In French, a "chaingun" is simply known as a "canon (FR)" or "cannon (ENG)"...

So yeah, multilaser would be equivalent to a chaingun.

Not picking on any one post, just picked one at random:

Leonus Cohol wrote:Laspistols are like regular sidearms, a 9mm.

Yeah, if a regular sidearm fired the exact same ammunition as a full fledged battle rifle. Laspistols are, shot for shot, deadlier than modern assault rifles, and only lack in rate of fire.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Lascarbines are like SMGs

No, SMGs are like SMGs. Lascarbines are... carbines. In fact, they're probably more comparable to assault rifles than SMGs, as assault rifles are essentially automatic carbines compared to a full battle rifle.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Lasguns are like AK-47s

Lasguns are in most cases the equivalent of a full battle rifle, not an assault rifle. The Mars Pattern Short Lasgun is quite powerful. The long variant by comparison is so unwieldy that it has roughly the same mobility as a heavy weapons team.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Multi-Laser is like a chaingun.

Not really. Most chainguns wouldn't have much of an effect on tanks. It's probably better to compare it to a light autocannon of some sort (and given that they have similar stats to 40k autocannons, this makes sense).

Leonus Cohol wrote:Lascannon is like a anit-tank cannon.

This is essentially right.

The rate of fire of a chaingun may not be impressive but downrange the effects are. My wicked little heart loves 25 mike mike

@ Melissia
(i wont adress the other weapons, because i dont care about them at all)
You have the wrong impression of a chaingun (as i tried to show earlier)
the 25mm Bushmaster is an autocannon, it is also a chaingun. There is a little 1hp motor inside that spins a chain that moves the bolt through its cycle so that it can fire as an automatic cannon (being that is has a caliber above 20mm). So yes some of us have been using the term chaingun a bit too liberally (as there are also chaingun machine guns)

but at the end of the day we are correct in saying
a Multilaser is an analog to the 25mm/30mm chain guns on AFVs of the modern era.

Melissia wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:Multi-Laser is like a chaingun.

Not really. Most chainguns wouldn't have much of an effect on tanks. It's probably better to compare it to a light autocannon of some sort (and given that they have similar stats to 40k autocannons, this makes sense).

Actually a 20/25/30mm gun won't probably harm a tank (a multilaser won't hurt a LRBT head-on either), but they will most probably wreck light armoured vehicles and transports, like M2/M3 or Strykers (just like a multilaser with Chimeras & Rhinos).

Add this to the range & rate of fire, and I think it nails it.

As always in those cases though, YMMV.

Lone Cat wrote:Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Laspistol = 9mm pistol
Lascarbines = M1 Garand
Lasgun = Ak-47
Multilaser = .50 cal Machine Gun
Lascannon = 125 mm artillery cannon

Does the concept 'Battle Rifle' still not obsolette? and what's the difference between Battle Rifle and Assault Rifle? if one said Lasgun is classified as Battle Rifle (as well as Astartes Goldwyn .998 Bolter being classified as such in Space Marines the game)

now focus on Lasguns. emphasis on the variants presented in citadel plastic models (Cadian and Catachans)
1. While Cadia has a self-sufficient industry and able to export arms. why in 3rd IG Codex (the first ones featuring modern Cadians). cadians are said to use Kantrael pattern? what are the differences of two?
2. What is the name of Catachan lasgun?
3. Do the two versions use steel frame and recievers like FN SCAR?
4. How do lasgun sights work? is it a 'quick aim' scope with no magnifying capability but having crosshairs instead?
5. In the computer game Spacemarines. Cadians (as their commander called themselves) uses a slight difference versions of lasguns. it doesn't have an aesthetics of any cadian lasguns we've known but it looks much more advanced (and uses scopes). is this lasgun Graia made? or does GW planeed to release a new cadians? (not so likely! just a few changes... lasguns needs a new mold crafted for ones??)

A battle rifle is a heavier calibre rifle capable of firing semi automatic or bursts, possibly automatic. Ex. FNC, AK-47, m14

An Assault rifle is a lighter calibre rifle which does the same thing. Ex. M-16, etc

They are used in similar manners, but the Battle Rifle is typically larger, more difficult to handle in close quarters, and less accurate in any sort of rapid fire/burst engagement

Melissia wrote:Not picking on any one post, just picked one at random:

Leonus Cohol wrote:Laspistols are like regular sidearms, a 9mm.

Yeah, if a regular sidearm fired the exact same ammunition as a full fledged battle rifle. Laspistols are, shot for shot, deadlier than modern assault rifles, and only lack in rate of fire.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Lascarbines are like SMGs

No, SMGs are like SMGs. Lascarbines are... carbines. In fact, they're probably more comparable to assault rifles than SMGs, as assault rifles are essentially automatic carbines compared to a full battle rifle.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Lasguns are like AK-47s

Lasguns are in most cases the equivalent of a full battle rifle, not an assault rifle. The Mars Pattern Short Lasgun is quite powerful. The long variant by comparison is so unwieldy that it has roughly the same mobility as a heavy weapons team.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Multi-Laser is like a chaingun.

Not really. Most chainguns wouldn't have much of an effect on tanks. It's probably better to compare it to a light autocannon of some sort (and given that they have similar stats to 40k autocannons, this makes sense).

Leonus Cohol wrote:Lascannon is like a anit-tank cannon.

This is essentially right.

My post.
It was murdered. But most of what you said was true. I'd justify my comparisons, but i'm too lazy.

Lightcavalier wrote:A battle rifle is a heavier calibre rifle capable of firing semi automatic or bursts, possibly automatic. Ex. FNC, AK-47, m14

An Assault rifle is a lighter calibre rifle which does the same thing. Ex. M-16, etc

They are used in similar manners, but the Battle Rifle is typically larger, more difficult to handle in close quarters, and less accurate in any sort of rapid fire/burst engagement

does the lenght of cadian pattern Lasgun the reasons why this weapon is classified as Battle Rifle instead of Assault Rifle ??

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

Do you want to provide bullets for untold billions of troops in constant warefare? Not to mention is cheap to make and reliable.

Billagio wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

Do you want to provide bullets for untold billions of troops in constant warefare? Not to mention is cheap to make and reliable.

Actually no, the main thing is he's wrong-- and the ak47 would probably be inferior to the lasgun in game.

Something like R18", S2 AP-, Assault 2. At best, it would be equivalent, not better, and that's just being generous with the vagueness of 40k's stats, not an actual statement that it's really equivalent.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:Laspistol = 9mm pistol
Lascarbines = M1 Garand
Lasgun = Ak-47

... you don't know very much about weapons, do you?

Are you just drawing random names from a hat and attaching them randomly to weapons?

The lascarbine is not larger, heavier, and longer than a lasgun. No. Just no.

Hell even the laspistol is probably closer to a revolver shooting rifle caliber bullets, except without the hideous recoil you'd expect from it.

ok, some definitions for everyone (cus its annoying the crap out of me):

-battle rifle: technicaly an obsolete term in this day and age, refers to weapons such as the SMLE (.303 lee Enfeild), Mauser G98, 1903 Springfield, etc... these are a development of the long rifle which in turn is a development of the rifled musket. they use a full strength long cartrige, are generaly single fire and have an effective range up to a mile and a half. Probably equivalent to the Long Las due to higher powered round and longer range

-Carbine: was originaly a shortened version of a longer weapon, comonly used by cavalry units such as dragoons. in more recent history carbines such as the M4 and the M1 Garand. Probably equivalent to any of the short pattern lasguns

-Assault rifles: development of the battle-rifle and the sub-machinegun in WW2 (originaly made for the Parrachute regiments of the german army in 1943). Use a bullet of the same calliber as a rifle but often uses a shortened cartrige. Common calibers such as 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm and of course 7.62x54mm NATO standard. Please Note that varying sizes meand varying range, stopping power and accuracy. a modern Assault rifle should be roughly equivalent to any standard patern lasgun.

--Sub-Machinegun: actualy a fairly simple weapon (u can make tem in ur back shed if uve got any metalworking skill) they are fully automatic and fire pistol rounds, commonly 9mm or .38 calliber as the recoil from anything larger is hard to handle, there are only a couple that do. favoured for CQB work for their high rate of fire and there stopping power (larger bullets basicaly). if your looking for an equivalent in 40k, its not in the IG codex unless you want to wquate it to a shotgun.

- Light Machine Gun(LMG): generaly a fully automatic, belt or drum fed weapon using standard assault rifle amunition. again probably no equivalent in IG

-HMG: heavy calliber support weapons, generaly belt fed. Think .50 cal Browning or some such. equivalents anything from heavy stubber to heavy bolters and more.

-Vehicle mounted weapons such as a chaingun usualy use anything from 20-40mm rounds, these rounds can be API or APE (aprmour peircing incendiary or explosive) and are quite capable of desabling light vehicles. Probable equivalent to multi-laser.

-anti-tank guns range in size from 37mm popguns from the late 1930's to 120mm+ monsters from the last years of WW2 and Korea. assuming that we go with something that can have an auto-loader and still be man-portable, ur probably looking at one of the lower calliber ones for auto-cannons (there are actualy references in the fluff to say they're 30mm). Lascannons are probably equivalent to solid tungsten slug, large calliber, squeze bore weapons, but better and more portable.
The reason no-one uses AT guns anymore is that they are too hard to move and that they need to be too big to kill modern tanks (u just hit them with propper artillery instead).

Notes, and stuff:

Las-weaponry is most probably more powerfull than modern balistics as it causes a small explosion as part of the target vaporizes (according to fluff).

performance statistics vary considerably with calliber of weapon and size of cartrige (ie, M16 has a longer range than an ak because the charge to bullet size ratio is bigger, even thogh its a smaller round)

Lasguns would not have a reciever as such, more like a socket to stick a power pack (like a wall socket or battery pack).

also pistol rounds have more stopping power than rifle rounds. pistol rounds are bigger and transfer more kinetic energy than smaller rifle rounds. rifle rounds are designed to go a long way and still kill. at short range they are more likely to go straight through the target than knock it down.

modern body armour is capable of stopping most modern balistics up to .50 cal pistol rounds, thus any armour in the 41st milenium is gunna be at least a bit better, thus the lack of penetration power.

AK-47 is a piece of crap performance wise (it is less accurate and has a shorter range than most other weapons, and you cant fire it prone. it also jams just as much as any other gun contrary to popular belief). however it is one of the few things on this earth that is soldier proof, it is almost indestructable (its also easily mas-produced, has the most common bullet in the third world and when you get a stoppage it doesent kill the gun).

lastly, any equivalents given here are only "rough" equivalencies, and are not perfect.

thanks.

i'd say that a bipod- mounted 40mm GL is more or less close to Autocannon but personally I don't think that Auto GL has a good penetration. it should fits German 37mm. FlaK better. (if one can mount this weapons on pushcart carriage )



but then again. Auto GL can be mounted on a bipod and requires only two crew. in a computer game "Act of War: High Treason", this weapon has some Antitank capability at range, but not as good as Javeline Missile Launcher.

About Lascannon being Antitank weapon. Which caliber of real life carriage-mount antitank gun fits it best? if you refer to 37mm as popgun (it weaks! )
- 47mm (or maybe German 50mm)
- 57mm (USA)
- 75mm or Soviet 76.3mm

Brother Coa wrote:

Lone Cat wrote:Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Laspistol = 9mm pistol
Lascarbines = M1 Garand
Lasgun = Ak-47
Multilaser = .50 cal Machine Gun
Lascannon = 125 mm artillery cannon

This is true in the fact that those would be the modern time counterparts to the 40k weapons.

a Laspistol is most certaintly more powerful then a 9mm and the same goes for all the other weapons, although a 125mm Artillery piece would have the advantage of indirect fire.

I would equivocate the Multi-laser to be more like a small caliber autocannon found on many IFVs in modern arsenels then a .50cal. .50cals are what is mounted on Humvees or the pintle mounts of a larger vehicle. the Stubber is the 40k counterpart to the .50cal(its even explicitly stated as such in older fluff)

Farseer Petriel wrote:But, in game, lasguns are far crappier than AK in real life. Why does the Imperium use such ineffective weapon???

A lasgun has the ability to rip a human arm off (Roughly the power of a 50 CAL rifle), a Ak-47 does not.

Grey Templar wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Lone Cat wrote:Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Laspistol = 9mm pistol
Lascarbines = M1 Garand
Lasgun = Ak-47
Multilaser = .50 cal Machine Gun
Lascannon = 125 mm artillery cannon

This is true in the fact that those would be the modern time counterparts to the 40k weapons.

No it isn't. A lascarbine is smaller than a lasgun, not bigger.

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Lone Cat wrote:Is this comparisions / analogy a correct one?
1. Laspistol = PDW or SMG
2. Lasgun = typical assault rifle OR standard rifle like M1 Garand or Mauser G98
3. Multilaser = chaingun or gatling or certain types of HMG
4. Lascannon = 37mm Anti-tank cannon/ 47mm AT cannon or 50mm cannon. but this thing is likely to be WW2 analogy

Laspistol = 9mm pistol
Lascarbines = M1 Garand
Lasgun = Ak-47
Multilaser = .50 cal Machine Gun
Lascannon = 125 mm artillery cannon

This is true in the fact that those would be the modern time counterparts to the 40k weapons.

No it isn't. A lascarbine is smaller than a lasgun, not bigger.

What does that have to do with anything?

I suppose a lascarbine would be better compared to an M1A1 or M4 carbine, but its only a minor difference.