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Warmahordes: 100$ for 3 minis (Khador Battlebox). Yea, no thanks. But the 2 player battle box is not a bad idea ;D

ParatrooperSimon wrote:Warmahordes: 100$ for 3 minis (Khador Battlebox). Yea, no thanks. But the 2 player battle box is not a bad idea ;D

Where are you getting 3 minis from? The Khador Battle Box is $50 - the Two Player starter is $100, and has about $200 retail worth of models in it as well. The starter boxes themselves average between $70 - $85 retail for the individual minis.

mazgier wrote:Forward Commander or iBodger if you use a smartphone - no more than a minute to build and validate a list. Oh, and they're free...

I don't have a smartphone. But even if I did, do these programs tell me what I need to know? For example, I'm looking for a way to give Pathfinder to my units. I saw another player use Saxon Orrick to give it to his units (different faction.) I read through the Minion book and found out he can't join Menoth.

So now I'm looking for another character to do it. I did find one eventually - but could I have done this with the programs you mentioned? Specifically, not only do I need to know that I can take that Merc/Minion with my faction, I need to know what that Merc/Minion does (grant Pathfinder, in this case.)

Clarence

Clarence wrote:Rules are not in the same place in PP.

Core rules? Rulebook.

Building a list? Assume I don't own the models yet (I don't.)

Well, I'm looking through my Menoth book. Whoops, also need my Wrath book. You know what, better grab my Merc and Minion book too. Can Saxon Orrick join Menoth...?

So no, building an army is not fun when I have to flip through 2-4 books to make lists.

Or you could just look at the card that came with the figure for all the information you need. Don't own the figure? Then why are you worrying about placing him in your army in the first place? I see, you're borrowing the figure from your friend. Well then just ask your friend to lend you the card and the figure before you need to play. Then you can just look at the card... .

Also all of the rules for playing warmamhordes are in their core rulebook. If you mean the special rules for the individual figures then you will need more than one rule book or the figure itself. But the same holds true for 40K. You need to check both the main rule book and your army book for the meaning of some of the special rules for the units. Like what does the slow and purposeful rule do when you see it in Codex: Chaos Marines under the Thousand Sons entry (the rule isn't found in the Codex itself just the main rule book). And what happens when you want to add a Baneblade to your IG army when playing with the spearhead rules? You would need the main rule book, plus the army book, plus Imperial Armour X, plus a printout of the spearhead rules (which aren't in any published GW book).

I guess I just don't see the points in your post as to how warmahordes is worse than 40K.

Again, I'll stress that unofficial army composition methods are good for general list building but should be verified by official media. Occasionally there are errors, oversights, or things that become outdated. It's better to make sure you have the right information since any mistake in the list-building aspect is entirely your own.


In regards to the rules availability, faction decks include a card ( usually multiples for things with FA: 1 or more ) for each model in the army up until the time of their release. This is also true for the FORCES OF WARMACHINE books, which include additional fluff, gallery, etc. Asking the card decks or books to include information on models that came out after they were published ( Wrath ) doesn't make any sense.

Wrath is an expansion. It is not necessary to play. If you want all the Wrath fluff, data, etc, you need to buy the book. If you want just specific models, you can buy them and get their card. You can't just look at an expansion to some video game and complain that it isn't free.


In my personal experience, I've always had the option to check something in a book or look at the product ( model / card ) before I bought it. That could just be the store I go to, but, I wouldn't buy from one that didn't give me that option. With 40k however, as far as I know, many of the books and boxes come "sealed" so that you can't do that.



Don't be lazy. Do your research. Go to the stores, the forums, or battlecollege and do some light reading. Don't complain about non-essential gaming products not being free.*


*For the record, the game is full disclosure - your opponent has to show you his cards any time you ask, so even if you never buy any of the other books, the information will always be ready for you at the time of the game.

The nice thing about iBodger is that it also has links on every unit to the corresponding page on Battle College - so you can just drill down on the model itself and get the overview about what its abilities do, even if the exact stats are not available to be published.

It really is an amazing program, and is probably the best army construction / builder tool available for WM/H today. The big thing it gives you access to is *everything* you need for theme lists, including the bonuses that Forward Kommander only lists as 'in game effect'.

The availability of good information and the excellent programs available for free to utilize it is, I think, an amazing part of the PP community.

Just be aware that battle college does not always give the correct information. Sometimes it still uses Mk I rulings or just gets its facts wrong. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

RuneGrey wrote:An interesting point, although at the same time you can easily look at the different jacks as various customization options. The classic Ironclad chassis has 2 hardpoints, and you can equip it with a Quake Hammer and Open Fist, Heavy Barrel and Shock Hammer, or Metal Storms mounted on open fists.

While the potential to have more customized loadouts might seem appealing, it also exists at odds with the goal they have of making sure that you can identify a jack and its abilities at a glance without having to worry about sneaky customization. It also gives an advantage to warmachine, as a lot of warbeasts don't have hard points that can be used like warjacks, and are effectively purpose 'grown' for the job. You might say that some could swap roles (IE, various titans using weapons meant for other titans) but others don't have the option - a Rhinodon isn't anything other than a Rhinodon, a Gharlhorn can't become a Shadowhorn, and a Wrassler doesn't develop tentacle lust for schoolgirls like a Swamp Horror.

At the same time, is there some unwritten rule that says "No, there has and never will be an Ironclad with a Buckler until PP releases one. No, nobody in their right mind would give a Quake Hammer to a Stormclad?" Similarly, there's a certain disconnect in noting that Asheth Magnus is a fluffwise Jack-salvager who will build his army on an as-needed basis...yet one can then go "Right, a Renegade has a Chainfist, Obliterator Rocket, and Arc Node, Standard-Issue." Allowing jack/beast customization, as well as strict ability-based WYSIWYG, both adds more options in-game, and more modeling opportunities. Tying individual 'odd' abilities to the weapons in a manner they're easy to remember also helps too.

Customization options should be around for beasts too, given there are several "paths" that individual factions go down in that regard. Trolls are fairly intelligent given enough time to bond with their kriels, and are capable of wielding weapons of different make, craft, etc. The elemental ones have more restrictions in what you could do, but having "elemental affinities" as the loadout-setups would be an option. And...Pygs continue to make their Trollblood cousins cringe in horror when they come up with new and terrifying ways to wage war. ("did they seriously train it to use pickaxes for mining?"). The Circle druids have their mix of runeworkers, warpwolf breeders, and other similar nature-manipulators. And Skorne and Everblight *both* are big on modifying the capabilities of their Warbeasts, be it through neurochemical-genetical-biochemical crime, or through manipulation of Blight.

Point is...options are nice.

MagicJuggler wrote:

RuneGrey wrote:An interesting point, although at the same time you can easily look at the different jacks as various customization options. The classic Ironclad chassis has 2 hardpoints, and you can equip it with a Quake Hammer and Open Fist, Heavy Barrel and Shock Hammer, or Metal Storms mounted on open fists.

While the potential to have more customized loadouts might seem appealing, it also exists at odds with the goal they have of making sure that you can identify a jack and its abilities at a glance without having to worry about sneaky customization. It also gives an advantage to warmachine, as a lot of warbeasts don't have hard points that can be used like warjacks, and are effectively purpose 'grown' for the job. You might say that some could swap roles (IE, various titans using weapons meant for other titans) but others don't have the option - a Rhinodon isn't anything other than a Rhinodon, a Gharlhorn can't become a Shadowhorn, and a Wrassler doesn't develop tentacle lust for schoolgirls like a Swamp Horror.

At the same time, is there some unwritten rule that says "No, there has and never will be an Ironclad with a Buckler until PP releases one. No, nobody in their right mind would give a Quake Hammer to a Stormclad?" Similarly, there's a certain disconnect in noting that Asheth Magnus is a fluffwise Jack-salvager who will build his army on an as-needed basis...yet one can then go "Right, a Renegade has a Chainfist, Obliterator Rocket, and Arc Node, Standard-Issue." Allowing jack/beast customization, as well as strict ability-based WYSIWYG, both adds more options in-game, and more modeling opportunities. Tying individual 'odd' abilities to the weapons in a manner they're easy to remember also helps too.

Customization options should be around for beasts too, given there are several "paths" that individual factions go down in that regard. Trolls are fairly intelligent given enough time to bond with their kriels, and are capable of wielding weapons of different make, craft, etc. The elemental ones have more restrictions in what you could do, but having "elemental affinities" as the loadout-setups would be an option. And...Pygs continue to make their Trollblood cousins cringe in horror when they come up with new and terrifying ways to wage war. ("did they seriously train it to use pickaxes for mining?"). The Circle druids have their mix of runeworkers, warpwolf breeders, and other similar nature-manipulators. And Skorne and Everblight *both* are big on modifying the capabilities of their Warbeasts, be it through neurochemical-genetical-biochemical crime, or through manipulation of Blight.

Point is...options are nice.

Something about the storm chamber of the Stormclad interferes with the
technologies of the Quake Hammer. I just made that up.

I kind of like that they only release rules for models they intend to
provide.

MagicJuggler wrote:Point is...options are nice.

Even in 40k, there are very few "valid" options. With the way the game is currently played, Melta is almost always the choice. Not much of an option if you want a chance at winning.

As someone who plays 40k, Malifaux, Battletech and other games. I like the idea of Warmahordes and have played a grand total of 6 games now so far.

My biggest issue with Warmahordes is the fact there are all these scenarios, some of them quite fun, yet, you can win or lose by losing just the caster/warlock of an army.

I am sure my inexperience makes this seem a hard obstacle to overcome and wrap my mind around. But this is my biggest obstacle to the game.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:My biggest issue with Warmahordes is the fact there are all these scenarios, some of them quite fun, yet, you can win or lose by losing just the caster/warlock of an army.

I am sure my inexperience makes this seem a hard obstacle to overcome and wrap my mind around. But this is my biggest obstacle to the game.

This is a well known issue but that's how this game is designed. And it's also the reason why this game is not for everyone. You either like the casterkill option and hyper aggressive style of play or maybe should try a different game. Don't get me wrong here, it's just that WM promote a certain style of playing that doesn't suit everyone's taste.
Just remember that the main role of the scenarios (especially in competitive/tournament play) is to force both armies to move forward and move fast.
Casterkill on the other hand gives you a chance to win even if your entire army got slaughtered. As long as your caster/warlock is alive you may still pull a victory by killing opponent's one. BTW it's almost a signature style of play for eCaine

Leo_the_Rat wrote: Or you could just look at the card that came with the figure for all the information you need. Don't own the figure? Then why are you worrying about placing him in your army in the first place? I see, you're borrowing the figure from your friend. Well then just ask your friend to lend you the card and the figure before you need to play. Then you can just look at the card... .

Also all of the rules for playing warmamhordes are in their core rulebook. If you mean the special rules for the individual figures then you will need more than one rule book or the figure itself. But the same holds true for 40K. You need to check both the main rule book and your army book for the meaning of some of the special rules for the units. Like what does the slow and purposeful rule do when you see it in Codex: Chaos Marines under the Thousand Sons entry (the rule isn't found in the Codex itself just the main rule book). And what happens when you want to add a Baneblade to your IG army when playing with the spearhead rules? You would need the main rule book, plus the army book, plus Imperial Armour X, plus a printout of the spearhead rules (which aren't in any published GW book).

I guess I just don't see the points in your post as to how warmahordes is worse than 40K.

Hey Leo, I'm talking about building a list for a normal game of Warmachine. I'm not talking Apoc/Spearhead/whatever Strawman argument you'd like to use. I play Trolls and Cygnar, and I'm thinking of building a Menoth army. I came across the annoyance of building an army list the other day as I sat down with my 4 books.

My claim is that to explore all the options in building a competitive army for a normal game, one has to look beyond the Faction army book. A starting point would be the Wrath book, which adds more casters, battle engines, solos...etc for every faction. Sometimes you're looking for a particular buff, say, adding Pathfinder to a unit. The other day I saw Saxon Orrick do just that to a unit of Bane Thralls, which I thought was a pretty cool trick. He's in the Minion book, by the way. Whoops, can't join Menoth. Ok, flip through the Merc book to look for something similar...I did find something, I'm just saying it's inconvenient looking through 4 books when I want to build a list.

Clarence

P.S: I'm not saying I hate Warmachine and love 40k. I find both games fun and strategic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

correlation2 wrote: In regards to the rules availability, faction decks include a card ( usually multiples for things with FA: 1 or more ) for each model in the army up until the time of their release. This is also true for the FORCES OF WARMACHINE books, which include additional fluff, gallery, etc. Asking the card decks or books to include information on models that came out after they were published ( Wrath ) doesn't make any sense.

Wrath is an expansion. It is not necessary to play. If you want all the Wrath fluff, data, etc, you need to buy the book. If you want just specific models, you can buy them and get their card. You can't just look at an expansion to some video game and complain that it isn't free.

In my personal experience, I've always had the option to check something in a book or look at the product ( model / card ) before I bought it. That could just be the store I go to, but, I wouldn't buy from one that didn't give me that option. With 40k however, as far as I know, many of the books and boxes come "sealed" so that you can't do that.

Don't be lazy. Do your research. Go to the stores, the forums, or battlecollege and do some light reading. Don't complain about non-essential gaming products not being free.*

*For the record, the game is full disclosure - your opponent has to show you his cards any time you ask, so even if you never buy any of the other books, the information will always be ready for you at the time of the game.

This feels like it's directed to me, so allow me to reply.

1) I'm a pretty competitive player, and so is the gaming group at the FLGS. Wrath is an expansion that gives Factions more options. I'd like to know what these options are when I'm building an army so that I can take the best options possible.

2) I never complained about buying gaming products. I like buying the books. What I don't like is flipping through 4 of them when I want to make a list.

3) The local FLGS has open copies of the book, so I can peruse them for free. Doesn't help me when I'm daydreaming about building lists at home. I don't feel like driving out there just because I can't remember every special rule they do or their exact points cost.

4) All 40k codexes come unsealed, and you can look through them too. The FLGS has open copies of them as well.

5) How about instead of reading the internet wisdom out there (which I generally think very poorly of,) I, you know, read the actual rules and make my own decision?

Clarence wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote: Or you could just look at the card that came with the figure for all the information you need. Don't own the figure? Then why are you worrying about placing him in your army in the first place? I see, you're borrowing the figure from your friend. Well then just ask your friend to lend you the card and the figure before you need to play. Then you can just look at the card... .

Also all of the rules for playing warmamhordes are in their core rulebook. If you mean the special rules for the individual figures then you will need more than one rule book or the figure itself. But the same holds true for 40K. You need to check both the main rule book and your army book for the meaning of some of the special rules for the units. Like what does the slow and purposeful rule do when you see it in Codex: Chaos Marines under the Thousand Sons entry (the rule isn't found in the Codex itself just the main rule book). And what happens when you want to add a Baneblade to your IG army when playing with the spearhead rules? You would need the main rule book, plus the army book, plus Imperial Armour X, plus a printout of the spearhead rules (which aren't in any published GW book).

I guess I just don't see the points in your post as to how warmahordes is worse than 40K.

Hey Leo, I'm talking about building a list for a normal game of Warmachine. I'm not talking Apoc/Spearhead/whatever Strawman argument you'd like to use. I play Trolls and Cygnar, and I'm thinking of building a Menoth army. I came across the annoyance of building an army list the other day as I sat down with my 4 books.

My claim is that to explore all the options in building a competitive army for a normal game, one has to look beyond the Faction army book. A starting point would be the Wrath book, which adds more casters, battle engines, solos...etc for every faction. Sometimes you're looking for a particular buff, say, adding Pathfinder to a unit. The other day I saw Saxon Orrick do just that to a unit of Bane Thralls, which I thought was a pretty cool trick. He's in the Minion book, by the way. Whoops, can't join Menoth. Ok, flip through the Merc book to look for something similar...I did find something, I'm just saying it's inconvenient looking through 4 books when I want to build a list.

Clarence

P.S: I'm not saying I hate Warmachine and love 40k. I find both games fun and strategic.

Battlecollege and Forwardkommander, go and google them...

I'm going to have to agree with the Battle College and Forward Kommander comments.

Since the second one limits you to only models you could ever take, you're already down to a small list of models. If you have the Menoth book, you can sit down, and say well I want to see what these guys do.

If you want to add a merc or minion, you just look them up on Battlecollege. I don't have a single faction book, and my trolls do quiet well.

Also many stores (at least in my area) don't mind if I open a blister to read a card if they don't have a book in stock.

mazgier wrote:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:My biggest issue with Warmahordes is the fact there are all these scenarios, some of them quite fun, yet, you can win or lose by losing just the caster/warlock of an army.

I am sure my inexperience makes this seem a hard obstacle to overcome and wrap my mind around. But this is my biggest obstacle to the game.

This is a well known issue but that's how this game is designed. And it's also the reason why this game is not for everyone. You either like the casterkill option and hyper aggressive style of play or maybe should try a different game. Don't get me wrong here, it's just that WM promote a certain style of playing that doesn't suit everyone's taste.
Just remember that the main role of the scenarios (especially in competitive/tournament play) is to force both armies to move forward and move fast.
Casterkill on the other hand gives you a chance to win even if your entire army got slaughtered. As long as your caster/warlock is alive you may still pull a victory by killing opponent's one. BTW it's almost a signature style of play for eCaine

The game runs fine without Caster kill, though. Try running a few scenarios without it, it's a very different dynamic. Casters/Locks run more like Queens than some Queen/King(Quing? Keen?) combo.

On Multiple Books:

The faction books are fully competitive on their own. In fact, some of the factions actually seem to get worse if you try watering them down with a bunch of merc support.

The "good" merc solos are a very small selection, easily referenced on both the PP forum tacticas and Battle College articles. Eirysses, Rhupert, Gorman, Aiyana&Holt are the 'big ones' for Warmachine because they each bring something unique that most factions don't have access to (disruption/focus and upkeep stripping, Tough or Pathfinder, Black Oil/damage buff/smoke, magic weapon access/damage buff).

Every other merc solo is some variation of 'nice but not necessary'.

Merc units, the only two that really show up a lot are Forge Guard and Nyss Hunters. There are plenty more, of course, but 'nice but not necessary'.

Bottom line, if all you have is the faction book, you're still fine. And no matter how competitive a player you are, if you can remember those 6 merc solos/units you're probably good with just the Forces of Warmachine faction book.

And no matter what your faction is, save Retribution, Wrath releases were firmly in that 'nice but not necessary' category nearly across the board.

On Caster Kill:

You can play without caster kill as a win condition. You can also play 2-warcaster lists with caster kill as a win condition, since generally assassination lists will leave themselves horribly vulnerable if they circumvent most of your army to kill one of your casters.

Well, not to try and turn you off to the game or anything, but from a strictly competitive standpoint ( SR, for ex ) none of the unreleased Wrath stuff is even an option. Don't worry about seeing any of that stuff, because for all intents and purposes ( competitive scene ) it doesn't even exist yet!

You could proxy of course, but then that's a friendly game outside of the official competitive structure. You could make green parts of the board terrain that gives cont. fire at that point. Really doesn't matter.

Wrath stuff was mostly "eh" though. Bigger AOEs. KD spam. UAs that don't do much. Like the Cleanser UA. Worth it? I don't know - does anyone even use Cleansers anymore? What else did Menoth even get? Their BE and like, a jack with a wrench who can hit incorporeal targets.


Game. Breaking.


I'm going to stop teasing you now, though. Sufficed to say, I think you're stuck using multiple books until you actually buy the models. Once you do that you'll have the convenience of having all the cards in one place ( your card sleeves or w/e ) and by checking the backs of them ( Mercenary: ) you can easily reference who works for who.

=)

Stuff to expect to hit the "competitive" scene:

Cryx:
Malice

That's about it. Not because Cryx got the shaft in Wrath, but because so much of their stuff is already pretty dang good.

Khador:
Kayazy Eliminators -- acrobat gang fighters are insane with pButcher, both Vlads, and both Irusks.
MoW Mechanic--repairs are kind of nice, but no-knockdown is significant.
Battle Engine--Khador got a pretty good battle engine. Not a must-have, but def good.

Menoth:
Nicia--crazy insane solo whose card looks like a christmas tree with all the special abilities and goodies

Cygnar:
Battle Engine--arguably the best battle engine of the lot, and the eHaley tier with 2 BEs is really not too shabby
Minuteman--good non-linear threat, and nice at clearly low ARM infantry (not that Cygnar needed a lot more in this respect)
Jonas Murdoch--with Nyss Hunters, he's pretty darn good.

Alfndrate wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Point is...options are nice.

Even in 40k, there are very few "valid" options. With the way the game is currently played, Melta is almost always the choice. Not much of an option if you want a chance at winning.

The melta part is mostly untrue. Search for "The Melta Myth" on this forum. Having enough melta (or equivalence/alternate plans for negating Land Raiders) matters of course, but a melta-bumrush isn't as tactically valid as using melta for point-blank mopup after the initial exchange of autocannon/missilepod/shuricannon/etc fire. Granted, it varies by army, but there will be some diffusion in weapon capabilities/purposes...and even then, there's still room to bring flamers instead of meltas (for the guys in the Lasplas Razorback, for one). The main limits on 40k listbuilding come in the use of the restrictive Force Organization Chart (versus a FA or even a percentage system) alongside not only making sure you have the tools to take on many threats, but that they're efficiently spread-throughout your army ("I don't need to worry about Land Raiders. This *one* unit of 10 Fire Dragons will emerge from their *dead Wave Serpent* WAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRD").

As for "valid options" in loading out an army, allocation/customization of Wolf Guard, loading out Guard vet squads (granted, only one of the doctrines is worth the cost), alternating between running your rank-and-file as foot-blobs (optionally there just for screening, or for melee attrition) or as cheap Chimera-filler (or even ride-stealing shenanigans), and some other areas show that there is more variance between "Yes, the UA makes the unit *that* much better. Seriously, why didn't you take the UA for the [insert Errants/Gunmages/Mage Hunters/other stuff]" (I'm being a bit unfair here though).

Now, I'm not saying "go all battletech/2nd edition 40k" and go "See Page 11b for all Left-handed weapons of the Cult of Cyriss; Morrowan-aligned Charger-jacks may not use these alongside Tha...wait a sec!". Moreso than adding options, adding *viable* options matters too. GW really should have taken the hint about nobody taking twin-linked Heavy Bolters for Dreadnoughts, for example.

@Malfred
I mostly stuck with Orks. I've run into the attitude that "If you like modeling/converting, this comes at cost to gaming" and have found that troublesome as well. PP is already doing multi-part jack kits too, weapon-pack upgrades for other jacks/beasts...would it be so much of a stretch to expand the rules to take this into account?

@Sourclams:
Still chugging around. I found battlecollege mostly useless, and the PP forums to a fair extent. What benchmarks are you using still for "this army works?" So far I'm finding Menoth entertaining because I have been able to apply a lot of 40kthought to making them work, and because they're really good at messing up "unbalanced" armies. (One of my first games was versus Morvhana. Spell-dependency doesn't go well in that sense.).

Correlation 2:

That's kind of my point. I'd like to plan out and buy a decent 35pt list in one go (maybe two.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to for me to sit down and look at all my options. Of course I have to take into account what's actually available.

I've looked up the programs people have been advertising. They're nice and cool, but ultimately not enough info. I know most Merc/Minion stuff is there for a specific reason, but I'd like to actually read their stats, read exactly how their rules work...etc.

I stand by the fact that it's a little troublesome to do so with several books in hand. It's not a big deal, I don't rage about it, but I do prefer the 40k method where all I need is the codex.

Of course, 40k suffers from the fact that the codex in hand probably won't be updated for 5-6 years. (Do I really care? Not particularly.)

I don't see a huge difference between the FORCES OF X books and the Codex books. They have all the major elements to a force and if you want additional options you simply need to look at the 1 expansion book that applies to the army you like.

Mininons and Mercs aside, 2 books is pretty standard. The Mercs and Mininons that are available to your army are included in the Card decks with the exception of the expansion books.

So If you're going to do Legion, you'd need Primal (core rules), Forces of Legion and possibly the deck of cards to play with (optional). Might look at Domination for newer models but you don't NEED that book.

I would like for them to re-release the card decks to include the newer models. Its been awhile and the decks are becomming dated a bit. For example I don't have any Ravagore cards, nothing from Domination obviously, and I think there are a few others missing. I really like the card system because it helps with Proxy models for testing before you buy. Everyone hates getting a model just to find out they are crap on the table.

^Perhaps, instead of a new release of the decks, why not a 'booster pack' for the new updates and what isn't in the decks?

I agree a booster pack would actually be an excellent way to go. Make it cheaper and include the new stuff from Domination/Wrath.

+1 to you sir.

Of course, it wouldn't help the 'Warmachine is M:TG with minis' claims!

sourclams wrote:Stuff to expect to hit the "competitive" scene:

Cygnar:
Battle Engine--arguably the best battle engine of the lot, and the eHaley tier with 2 BEs is really not too shabby
Minuteman--good non-linear threat, and nice at clearly low ARM infantry (not that Cygnar needed a lot more in this respect)
Jonas Murdoch--with Nyss Hunters, he's pretty darn good.

Then why am I salivating at the thought of geting a Avenger?

PhantomViper wrote:

sourclams wrote:Stuff to expect to hit the "competitive" scene:

Cygnar:
Battle Engine--arguably the best battle engine of the lot, and the eHaley tier with 2 BEs is really not too shabby
Minuteman--good non-linear threat, and nice at clearly low ARM infantry (not that Cygnar needed a lot more in this respect)
Jonas Murdoch--with Nyss Hunters, he's pretty darn good.

Then why am I salivating at the thought of geting a Avenger?

Because groupthink =/= actual usability, most likely.

I wouldn't go for the booster route, but that's just because it doesn't seem financially sound. PP intends to release expansions for Warmachine and Hordes every year now. That would be a lot of boosters to print and take up store space that might never sell. I still see at least one of each faction deck at the local store and they'll probably never leave. Ever.


As far as model mods go, it's a nifty idea that will probably never happen. Magnetizing seems to be as close as it gets for the core chassis of each faction. I think the people at PP have said its for the sake of ease of reference/remembering. There's already enough of a problem with weapon systems occasionally not matching their models in terms of placement.

Not that I've ever, EVER seen an arm lock actually done in game, but still~

RuneGrey wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
Then why am I salivating at the thought of geting a Avenger?

Because groupthink =/= actual usability, most likely.

More because in the accuracy-buff faction, a giant KD round is 'nice but not necessary'.

Still chugging around. I found battlecollege mostly useless, and the PP forums to a fair extent. What benchmarks are you using still for "this army works?"

To get use out of the forums, I think you have to go into the stickied 'tactica' style posts that are generally at the top of the faction specific sub-forums. The list-building and discussion stuff is either too broad or too granular for real use. Even then, list building and matchup counters is just not as significant a part of the game as it is in 40k. It's much more important to find a list/faction that you can play well with your playstyle against a mix of opponents.

The reason I'm excited about the Avenger? It most likely means a hammersmith/centurian/avenger plastic kit. And that does excite me.